Selling up to continue to fund my PPL!
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
From: Here.
Selling up to continue to fund my PPL!
Hi Chaps,
Well having to abort my training for the time being due to the increase in the cost of the lessons because of the rise in the fuel costs (and the general cost of living etc) i've decided to sell my pride and joy, a Lotus Exige Series 1 and starting next year go for it in earnest!
In the meantime i've been reading a lot of books and watching various DVDs produced by Robinson but realise that there is no substitute for the real thing!
I was just wondering if the cost of the lessons are likely to come down or are they now likely to stick at around the £300 per hour mark and has the increased fuel charges put Helicopter Schools around the world on a knife edge as to whether they are likely to continue operate as a going concern?
J.
Well having to abort my training for the time being due to the increase in the cost of the lessons because of the rise in the fuel costs (and the general cost of living etc) i've decided to sell my pride and joy, a Lotus Exige Series 1 and starting next year go for it in earnest!
In the meantime i've been reading a lot of books and watching various DVDs produced by Robinson but realise that there is no substitute for the real thing!
I was just wondering if the cost of the lessons are likely to come down or are they now likely to stick at around the £300 per hour mark and has the increased fuel charges put Helicopter Schools around the world on a knife edge as to whether they are likely to continue operate as a going concern?
J.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Close to the hangar, UK.
I doubt costs are going to come down and I expect there's many a school wondering where there next batch of students are going to come from.
I'd be wary of putting all your eggs in one basket unless you know you can afford it and you don't have dependants.
Even when you do qualify you'll be at the bottom of a very crowded ladder. I know, I'm only a few rungs above you!
I'd be wary of putting all your eggs in one basket unless you know you can afford it and you don't have dependants.
Even when you do qualify you'll be at the bottom of a very crowded ladder. I know, I'm only a few rungs above you!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
From: Gloucestershire, UK
Good luck, I sold my house & Honda S2000 to fund my training almost 4 years ago and haven't looked back, it's been a helluva lot of work and a lot of ups and downs but it's worth it in the end...
Joined: Aug 2008
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 299
Likes: 31
From: KOLM and KBVS
No kidding - best of luck.
One word: COMMIT.
I unloaded everything I owned, moved across the states TWICE and haven't a pot to piss in at the moment... but even my daughter is excited for my career change.
One word: COMMIT.
I unloaded everything I owned, moved across the states TWICE and haven't a pot to piss in at the moment... but even my daughter is excited for my career change.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Antigua, West Indies
... when you do qualify you'll be at the bottom of a very crowded ladder...
When I embarked on my training just over a year ago, I was told there was a SHORTAGE of helicopter pilots and instructors. Bizarrely, perhaps, I actually WANT to be an instructor. No North Sea for me, thanks.
I am well down the road -- £63k down the road, in fact, after notching up a JAA CPL(H), three type ratings and attending the Robinson factory course. I'm about to lay out another 10 big ones on my FI ticket.
Will there or will there not be a job at the end of it???
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
From: UK
Been discussed lots before I'm afraid CT. Was it perchance a flying school that told you of this shortage 
Most regularly used mantra is from Camp Freddie. A search will bring up the past threads, but in essence..........
Basic CPL - worthless
CPL + FI - High cost, medium risk, low returns
CPL + MEIR - High cost, high risk, better returns
There will always be a steady supply of FI's because the hours are long, the pay is generally poor and the working conditions (depending on your employer) can be rubbish. So for some schools FI turnover is fairly regular
In the current economic climate the future of FI'ing I would suggest is rocky, and you'll be competing with established working FI's, as well as other newly qualified FI's with more or less hours.
FWIW - FI'ing is great fun, but IMHO is a career with little to no path
Most FI's use teaching purely as a stepping stone to gain flying hours in the hope of securing an alternative role. Sadly flying hours and 'relevant/required experience' are two completely different things 
There are very few rotary long term career instructors (ie individuals that have basically only ever taught - aside from a few odd charters), and in more than one case they are examples of the old mantra:
'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach'
This is in no way a 'dig' at FI's. The majority work very hard (across the full spectrum from newly qualified up to the highly experienced who return to teaching after a lengthy spell flying in a different role), but on the whole the newly qualified aspire to other roles (either from the outset or after about 18months when the rose tint fades from the glasses).
Thats how it was for me. Rose tinted dreams of using a basic CPL, that were strengthened by the school I did my CPL with. Immediately post course the same CFI informed me a basic CPL was useless, but that with a great shortage of FI's an FI rating would be my best option. Spookily that same CFI could offer me a course and maybe even some work. I had no choice and having coughed up for the course was lucky enough ( or with hindsight unlucky enough) to work for the same CFI. I thoroughly enjoyed the teaching but not the working environment/conditions. I lasted 14 months before biting the bullet and coughing up for a ME IR, that with hindsight is the path I should have followed from the outset!
I can't think of any Southern UK schools that are looking for extra FI's at the moment. The Summer season of charters is rapidly ending and winter weather will soon be fully with us
Many FI's relocate, or try to work where they've qualified. I wish you the best of luck whatever route you find yourself taking.
FW
Most regularly used mantra is from Camp Freddie. A search will bring up the past threads, but in essence..........
Basic CPL - worthless
CPL + FI - High cost, medium risk, low returns
CPL + MEIR - High cost, high risk, better returns
There will always be a steady supply of FI's because the hours are long, the pay is generally poor and the working conditions (depending on your employer) can be rubbish. So for some schools FI turnover is fairly regular
In the current economic climate the future of FI'ing I would suggest is rocky, and you'll be competing with established working FI's, as well as other newly qualified FI's with more or less hours.
FWIW - FI'ing is great fun, but IMHO is a career with little to no path
Most FI's use teaching purely as a stepping stone to gain flying hours in the hope of securing an alternative role. Sadly flying hours and 'relevant/required experience' are two completely different things There are very few rotary long term career instructors (ie individuals that have basically only ever taught - aside from a few odd charters), and in more than one case they are examples of the old mantra:'Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach'
This is in no way a 'dig' at FI's. The majority work very hard (across the full spectrum from newly qualified up to the highly experienced who return to teaching after a lengthy spell flying in a different role), but on the whole the newly qualified aspire to other roles (either from the outset or after about 18months when the rose tint fades from the glasses).
Thats how it was for me. Rose tinted dreams of using a basic CPL, that were strengthened by the school I did my CPL with. Immediately post course the same CFI informed me a basic CPL was useless, but that with a great shortage of FI's an FI rating would be my best option. Spookily that same CFI could offer me a course and maybe even some work. I had no choice and having coughed up for the course was lucky enough ( or with hindsight unlucky enough) to work for the same CFI. I thoroughly enjoyed the teaching but not the working environment/conditions. I lasted 14 months before biting the bullet and coughing up for a ME IR, that with hindsight is the path I should have followed from the outset!
I can't think of any Southern UK schools that are looking for extra FI's at the moment. The Summer season of charters is rapidly ending and winter weather will soon be fully with us
Many FI's relocate, or try to work where they've qualified. I wish you the best of luck whatever route you find yourself taking.
FW
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Antigua, West Indies
Flingingthing...
I know the career drawbacks, the empty promises, the fading appeal of apparently glamorous careers (I used to be a BBC newsreader!).
I just want to know if there'll be any vacancies for 350-hr newly-qualified FIs in about six weeks' time! lol. Truth is, no-one seems to know...
C-top
I know the career drawbacks, the empty promises, the fading appeal of apparently glamorous careers (I used to be a BBC newsreader!).
I just want to know if there'll be any vacancies for 350-hr newly-qualified FIs in about six weeks' time! lol. Truth is, no-one seems to know...
C-top
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: 18 Degrees North
Hey Choppertop,
sure you will get a job as an FI, but the question is when?
right now your timing is s**t as you have probably guessed.
hours are falling now and clocks go back soon and what with the credit crunch
yada yada yada
it may be next spring before you can get anything, maybe march onwards.
but you may be lucky and get something straight away, no f****r knows !
i have heard a few people say this, you will find after about 1000 hours instruction (2 years if your busy) that it will "start to do your head in" and that you do need to do something else as well or instead of instructing.
dont rule out anything, eventually the thrill of being paid to fly will change into resentment at being exploited and not valued by your flight school who provide you with no benefits that proper employees get, there arent many jobs out there that are decent and many value former military or north sea experience, if you rule out things you may have years of scratching about driving long distances for inconsistent pay.
good luck, CF
sure you will get a job as an FI, but the question is when?
right now your timing is s**t as you have probably guessed.
hours are falling now and clocks go back soon and what with the credit crunch
yada yada yadait may be next spring before you can get anything, maybe march onwards.
but you may be lucky and get something straight away, no f****r knows !
When I embarked on my training just over a year ago, I was told there was a SHORTAGE of helicopter pilots and instructors. Bizarrely, perhaps, I actually WANT to be an instructor. No North Sea for me, thanks.
dont rule out anything, eventually the thrill of being paid to fly will change into resentment at being exploited and not valued by your flight school who provide you with no benefits that proper employees get, there arent many jobs out there that are decent and many value former military or north sea experience, if you rule out things you may have years of scratching about driving long distances for inconsistent pay.
good luck, CF
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 684
Likes: 0
From: Here.
Choppertop,
I wonder who it was that said TV was glamorous????
It used to be 30 years ago when we were on 5T etc but now it's just long hours, being bossed about by kids who have just left college and know nothing, who are happy to work for nothing just to get into TV!!!
Hence deciding to learn to fly...........if nothing else it will take me away from the misery of working in TV.
K77.
P.S. Were you one of the BBC's cuts like me?
I wonder who it was that said TV was glamorous????
It used to be 30 years ago when we were on 5T etc but now it's just long hours, being bossed about by kids who have just left college and know nothing, who are happy to work for nothing just to get into TV!!!
Hence deciding to learn to fly...........if nothing else it will take me away from the misery of working in TV.
K77.
P.S. Were you one of the BBC's cuts like me?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Antigua, West Indies
Were you one of the BBC's cuts like me?
The BBC fell out of love with me because I'm a white, male, middle-class, southerner. Like quite a lot of their listeners.
DON'T get me started...
