True North 407 down in the Kimberleys
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Back of Bourke
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True North 407 down in the Kimberleys
ABC Kimberley:
A helicopter with seven people on board has crashed at Talbot Bay north of Derby in the Kimberley.
It is understood the Bell 407 helicopter crashed into the ocean shortly after taking off about 8:30am.
All onboard survived and managed to scramble to safety before the helicopter sank, but a female passenger required CPR and was flown to hospital in Broome where she is in a stable condition.
The Helicopter was operated by tourism company True North, which conducts flights into the Horizontal Falls area.
It is the second helicopter to crash in the Kimberley in two weeks.
Earlier this month four people were killed when an R44 helicopter crashed while on a 18 minute sight seeing flight to the Bungle Bungle Ranges.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating this latest incident.
It is understood the Bell 407 helicopter crashed into the ocean shortly after taking off about 8:30am.
All onboard survived and managed to scramble to safety before the helicopter sank, but a female passenger required CPR and was flown to hospital in Broome where she is in a stable condition.
The Helicopter was operated by tourism company True North, which conducts flights into the Horizontal Falls area.
It is the second helicopter to crash in the Kimberley in two weeks.
Earlier this month four people were killed when an R44 helicopter crashed while on a 18 minute sight seeing flight to the Bungle Bungle Ranges.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating this latest incident.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OMG... I cant belive it 
I remember when that 407 arrived in Australia it was in Adelaide and i managed to get some pics of it before it went up to NT
Spent many years dreaming of the photos stuck to my wall...
As far as i know their 407 has floats fitted so any idea if they were inflated before it struck the water?
Simon
I remember when that 407 arrived in Australia it was in Adelaide and i managed to get some pics of it before it went up to NT
Spent many years dreaming of the photos stuck to my wall...
As far as i know their 407 has floats fitted so any idea if they were inflated before it struck the water?
Simon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ****
Posts: 279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Perth Now
"All those aboard were rescued within minutes of the crash but the pilot was not able to activate the aircraft's flotation device and it sunk in 30m of water."
So the floats were not deployed, citing engine failure as cause of crash.
NST
"All those aboard were rescued within minutes of the crash but the pilot was not able to activate the aircraft's flotation device and it sunk in 30m of water."
So the floats were not deployed, citing engine failure as cause of crash.
NST
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sh*t Im lost again!!!
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Floats not inflated
Hate to poke a stick in the eye but.... It is common practice in the off shore arena to arm the floats anytime you are below 300' and under 60kts, with hand on the collective ready to activate. As there is little time to react before hitting the water when under the above. Seeing as the True North is a boat I would hope they are using a similar practice, assuming they were taking off from the boat.
Sounds like a little complacency to me. You can not control when the donkey wants to quit, but you should be ready with the floats. especially in a single engine aircraft.
The fact that all 7 got out is welcoming news as that could of very easily been a different outcome.
DT
Sounds like a little complacency to me. You can not control when the donkey wants to quit, but you should be ready with the floats. especially in a single engine aircraft.
The fact that all 7 got out is welcoming news as that could of very easily been a different outcome.
DT
Last edited by DoinTime; 26th Sep 2008 at 13:19.
Originally Posted by DoinTime
Sounds like a little complacency to me. You can not control when the donkey wants to quit, but you should be ready with the floats. especially in a single engine aircraft. I bet he will not be so complacent next time.
Every experience I've had and heard about this operator has shown nothing but their professionalism and attention to detail (including arming the floats at the appropriate time).
Easy fellas, we don't want another thread like the S-76 thread, im to blame a bit aswel in it!
Glad to hear everyone got out of this one.. How does the floatation device work in the 407? Is there a button on the collective or a trigger like on the R44 Clipper??
Glad to hear everyone got out of this one.. How does the floatation device work in the 407? Is there a button on the collective or a trigger like on the R44 Clipper??
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sh*t Im lost again!!!
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't speculate???? 
That is all we have on this forum, as I doubt we will never know the real reason.
But Yes you are right, I am sure there was a very good reason why the floats were not inflated and I wait in anticipation to hear that, although I am sure I never will.
I am sure I am not the only person who has forgotten to arm the floats on approach or take off, especially when you are doing 30+ landings a day. oooppps sorry speculation... there I go again.
The most professional and experienced pilots get complacent, in-fact they are more acceptable to it. Again I am more than likely way of base and no way mean to slander the pilot. Just curios to know why.
Davy,
There are usually two different types. A trigger on the bottom of the collective or a push button next to the arming switch. These are the two I have seen on the 407 and are designed so you do not have to remove your hand from the collective to activate, for obvious reasons. Both of course need to be armed to activate.
DT
That is all we have on this forum, as I doubt we will never know the real reason.But Yes you are right, I am sure there was a very good reason why the floats were not inflated and I wait in anticipation to hear that, although I am sure I never will.
I am sure I am not the only person who has forgotten to arm the floats on approach or take off, especially when you are doing 30+ landings a day. oooppps sorry speculation... there I go again.
The most professional and experienced pilots get complacent, in-fact they are more acceptable to it. Again I am more than likely way of base and no way mean to slander the pilot. Just curios to know why.
Davy,
There are usually two different types. A trigger on the bottom of the collective or a push button next to the arming switch. These are the two I have seen on the 407 and are designed so you do not have to remove your hand from the collective to activate, for obvious reasons. Both of course need to be armed to activate.
DT
Floats not working when they're supposed to happens more often than what many might realize. Even on new multi-million dollar helicopters straight out of the factory. The floats might have been armed, and they might have been triggered, and they might not have worked. Obviously they didn't work here, for a reason that will be revealed at the subsequent enquiry.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not being a heli driver (wish I was at times though) & this is just a question only could the floats be automatically deployed with no other input from the user when say an engine failure/neg torque occurs? Obviously they would still need to be armed say for over water ops or dissarmed for training. Just reading the posts here suggest that there may or may not have been time to deploy them in the usual fashion in this case.
And finally although this will no doubt bring some "oh no not that question again" responses where would one best start to seek a heli ticket in ML?
I'll do the research but just wanted some advice from the 'troops' first
Tnxs
CW
And finally although this will no doubt bring some "oh no not that question again" responses where would one best start to seek a heli ticket in ML?
I'll do the research but just wanted some advice from the 'troops' first
Tnxs
CW
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wally
Some helicopters such as the 212 have the floats that inflate on entering the water, if armed of course. Some like the 350 may have the inflate button on the centre console, not too easy to reach if you're in a hurry! I always liked the fixed floats on the 206, at least you knew they were inflated! Having had 2 engine failures on take off, making a decent EOL was all I had to do.
Some helicopters such as the 212 have the floats that inflate on entering the water, if armed of course. Some like the 350 may have the inflate button on the centre console, not too easy to reach if you're in a hurry! I always liked the fixed floats on the 206, at least you knew they were inflated! Having had 2 engine failures on take off, making a decent EOL was all I had to do.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Back of Bourke
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wally,
As Nigel says, some installations have an automatic system (water sensors, etc) when the floats are armed, but the 407 is a manual inflation, IIRC.
Strangely, True North's AOC specifically bans the use of fixed floats or floating hull in any of their aircraft. Quite the strangest Condition that I've ever seen in an AOC
Only emergency floatation equipment is allowed, CASA AOC register. 
Also, to answer your query (Wally) about moving up in the world and going rotary, you can't do better than PHS at Moorabbin
As Nigel says, some installations have an automatic system (water sensors, etc) when the floats are armed, but the 407 is a manual inflation, IIRC.
Strangely, True North's AOC specifically bans the use of fixed floats or floating hull in any of their aircraft. Quite the strangest Condition that I've ever seen in an AOC
Only emergency floatation equipment is allowed, CASA AOC register. Also, to answer your query (Wally) about moving up in the world and going rotary, you can't do better than PHS at Moorabbin
There are any number of reasons why the floats did not inflate....some of which have nothing to do with complacency, pilot error, forgetfulness, or human error. As any experienced helicopter pilot or engineer knows....things that are supposed to go "pop"..."Swoosh"....sometimes do naught....or half naught.
Perhaps we should wait to hear from reliable sources what the cause of this lack of flotation was caused by.
Perhaps we can get Lappos to R and D us a boat hulled single engine Bell helicopter....thus floats would not be an issue. Wait a minute....Sikorsky already did that years ago!
Perhaps we should wait to hear from reliable sources what the cause of this lack of flotation was caused by.
Perhaps we can get Lappos to R and D us a boat hulled single engine Bell helicopter....thus floats would not be an issue. Wait a minute....Sikorsky already did that years ago!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Back of Bourke
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems that the floats did work OK last time: 4 years ago
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: On the move...
Age: 58
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pop out Vs fixed floats
Squeaks, I've flown with a couple of companies that had the same limitaton re floats on the AOC and at one Op we were always over water.
It's a strange one, but I believe that it relates to the CP and if they have a float endorsement or not, remembering that you have to have the endorsement before you can operate with fixed floats. Therefore if the CP doesn't have the endorsement, it wont appear on the AOC.
I also know of one school that did fixed float endorsements, but wouldn't sign the pilots off until they had a HUET!
The AOC bit is just speculation as I had asked once before, but couldn't get an answer.
Glad to hear everyone is okay.
It's a strange one, but I believe that it relates to the CP and if they have a float endorsement or not, remembering that you have to have the endorsement before you can operate with fixed floats. Therefore if the CP doesn't have the endorsement, it wont appear on the AOC.
I also know of one school that did fixed float endorsements, but wouldn't sign the pilots off until they had a HUET!
The AOC bit is just speculation as I had asked once before, but couldn't get an answer.
Glad to hear everyone is okay.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: brisbane
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To mr dointime are you serious??? what armchair are you endorsed on???? Slanderous libelous and just plain stupidous comments are the things you hear on tv news stations when some clown reporter is trying to make a story out of stack when he knows nothing about it. a good competent and experianced friend of mine flies on True North and whether it be him another pilot or any other pilot in any other stack -clowns like you are not appreciated
doing nothing for the indiviiduals or the flying game itself. as other learned individuals point out further down the page there are a million other things that can cause floats not to inflate so pull your head in a keep childish and obviously uninformed comments like ''sounds like complacency'' to yourself.
are you actually a pilot?? Furthermore we in the early stages of stacks get snippets of news from people who are as informed on the subject as you obviously are, so the chinese wisper routines grow way out of control and next thing the pilot as you stated is at fault.. been there copped slanderous comments from people similar to you untrue unfair unjust and just really a comment on you not the pilot.
PS and i don't really care whether some words are not spelt right so don't bother pointing it out.
bw
doing nothing for the indiviiduals or the flying game itself. as other learned individuals point out further down the page there are a million other things that can cause floats not to inflate so pull your head in a keep childish and obviously uninformed comments like ''sounds like complacency'' to yourself.
are you actually a pilot?? Furthermore we in the early stages of stacks get snippets of news from people who are as informed on the subject as you obviously are, so the chinese wisper routines grow way out of control and next thing the pilot as you stated is at fault.. been there copped slanderous comments from people similar to you untrue unfair unjust and just really a comment on you not the pilot.
PS and i don't really care whether some words are not spelt right so don't bother pointing it out.
bw
Rumoured to be an engine failure straight after takeoff and that floats failed to delpoy. The whole incident was caught on video so I'm sure everything will come out. Pilot was RC. Good job in getting everyone out alive.