No more night flights
Thread Starter
No more night flights
The hospital program we service has decided its to dangerous to fly at night, they do not want to expose the med crews to excess risk. So as of 1 Sept we no longer fly at night. As winter approaches the 12 hour day shifts will be trimmed back.
Central Montana Bell 407, NVGs, never did scene flights only inter-hospital.
We just completed NVG training with the med staff that week.
So any ideas to mitigate risk, the vendor was never consulted and told after the fact what the hospital decided. Not that anything will change their decision, just for my education making sure my thoughts seem in line with being safe.
Central Montana Bell 407, NVGs, never did scene flights only inter-hospital.
We just completed NVG training with the med staff that week.
So any ideas to mitigate risk, the vendor was never consulted and told after the fact what the hospital decided. Not that anything will change their decision, just for my education making sure my thoughts seem in line with being safe.
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Why not suggest a twin engine IFR operation. Operate as an airline type model. Use two pilots. Yes, the cost is higher but so is dispatch numbers! Yes it's anal but just a suggestion! No night scene calls just regulated certified heliports and airports.
DK
DK
Thread Starter
Hospital politics
DK thanks for the input, the program also has 2 KingAir 200s that they insist on 2 pilots. The Med crews feel safer in the 407 because they are up on the ICS and interact with the pilot.
We brought the idea up of a twin and 2 pilots....fell on deaf ears. The bean counter actually said if we fly less we save money.
We brought the idea up of a twin and 2 pilots....fell on deaf ears. The bean counter actually said if we fly less we save money.
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No probs!
All we as line pilots can do is suggest and educate! Having flown EMS in Canada in my past, take a look at Ontario's and British Columbia"s air ambulance services. Both using S76's for now but heard rumours of AW139's. Again...cost issues, but I'm looking at it from a pilot's perspective.
The hospital politics is definitely a detriment at times unless they are progressively minded!
DK
P.S Good luck...fly safe!
All we as line pilots can do is suggest and educate! Having flown EMS in Canada in my past, take a look at Ontario's and British Columbia"s air ambulance services. Both using S76's for now but heard rumours of AW139's. Again...cost issues, but I'm looking at it from a pilot's perspective.
The hospital politics is definitely a detriment at times unless they are progressively minded!
DK
P.S Good luck...fly safe!
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Could also look into how well trained the ground units are in setting up a night time LZ. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen them set up a nice ring of flares in an open area... right under power lines!
It seems like yours is one of those "Billboard" type programs where the hospital really does not need the aircraft.
So how are the other two pilots being disposed of by Air Methods?
So how are the other two pilots being disposed of by Air Methods?
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No hospital needs a service that destroys 1% of its fleet each year due to Human Factors accidents. The EMS system must fix itself or perish.
And as to why the Hospital decided, unilaterally, that they would cut all night flights - why would they ask the flight department how to cure the problem, the flight department is the problem.
And as to why the Hospital decided, unilaterally, that they would cut all night flights - why would they ask the flight department how to cure the problem, the flight department is the problem.
Montana is an awfully dark place once you leave the few cities and towns. NVG's would have been a real improvement but at the same time sets one up for a real exciting time if the goggles decide to go U/S way out in the middle of the mountains and other really dark areas on a Moon less night.
Havoc,
Perhaps looking a gift horse in the mouth is not the thing to do at this time. The Hospital made its decision for whatever reasons it chose. Suggesting they know not what they are doing will not endear you to AirMeth or the customer.
One thought is to do a study and see how many flights could have been done by a King Air or ground ambulance versus the 407 as it is all hospital to hospital anyway. Perhaps the night flying risk does exceed the necessity of using a helicopter for that mission.
Using the bean counter's logic....why not get out of the business altogether and save a real pot full of money?
Havoc,
Perhaps looking a gift horse in the mouth is not the thing to do at this time. The Hospital made its decision for whatever reasons it chose. Suggesting they know not what they are doing will not endear you to AirMeth or the customer.
One thought is to do a study and see how many flights could have been done by a King Air or ground ambulance versus the 407 as it is all hospital to hospital anyway. Perhaps the night flying risk does exceed the necessity of using a helicopter for that mission.
Using the bean counter's logic....why not get out of the business altogether and save a real pot full of money?
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback
The pilots are currently working at bases that are short pilots. AMC said they will give them priority on positions they would like to bid on.
SASLess, 127 flights that the RW could not go on because the night team was out on a FW flight. Add on 34 for weather turn downs and 8 missed for maintenance and being out of service during checkrides/training. In a ideal world that would have put the RW over 500 flights in addition to the 450+ FW flights.
I always look for sound advice from you SASLess and you have not failed me this time....THANKS
AMC has asked to buy the FW and run the program as a community based service. Interest from the hospital is only peaked at times when unforeseen costs arise.
RN..the pilots (not just our program) have been proactive on issues flying in MT. I can understand the comment about why ask the flight dept when they are the problem. I still get a chuckle when thinking about the MD that called me after turning down a flight when the wx was 100 1/4 fog at KBIL. He was insistent that I could fly because he had just driven in from the out lying hospital with no problems. Its all perspective and making informed decisions.
I agree that the US EMS system is broke, IMHO.... AAMS, ASTNA, NEMSPA, CAMTS, IAFP need to merge and be one voice for the industry. If nothing else get all the membership $$ going to one place, makes for a great AMTC party.
AMC, PHI, AEL, Omni, etc...need to step up also.
CG...if the hospital ever does scene work training will be a major major priority. Rule of thumb for me and it did not fail me a few weeks ago working in Wisconson, All roads have wires and Fireman never look up.
SASLess, 127 flights that the RW could not go on because the night team was out on a FW flight. Add on 34 for weather turn downs and 8 missed for maintenance and being out of service during checkrides/training. In a ideal world that would have put the RW over 500 flights in addition to the 450+ FW flights.
I always look for sound advice from you SASLess and you have not failed me this time....THANKS
AMC has asked to buy the FW and run the program as a community based service. Interest from the hospital is only peaked at times when unforeseen costs arise.
RN..the pilots (not just our program) have been proactive on issues flying in MT. I can understand the comment about why ask the flight dept when they are the problem. I still get a chuckle when thinking about the MD that called me after turning down a flight when the wx was 100 1/4 fog at KBIL. He was insistent that I could fly because he had just driven in from the out lying hospital with no problems. Its all perspective and making informed decisions.
I agree that the US EMS system is broke, IMHO.... AAMS, ASTNA, NEMSPA, CAMTS, IAFP need to merge and be one voice for the industry. If nothing else get all the membership $$ going to one place, makes for a great AMTC party.
AMC, PHI, AEL, Omni, etc...need to step up also.
CG...if the hospital ever does scene work training will be a major major priority. Rule of thumb for me and it did not fail me a few weeks ago working in Wisconson, All roads have wires and Fireman never look up.
Thread Starter
FH1100...not really complaining, separated business 101 from the personal issues already.
Just wondering what we had missed from a vendor to the customer side on managing risk.
Just wondering what we had missed from a vendor to the customer side on managing risk.
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Of course...
...of course half the pilot staff will get the ax, right? And probably the hospital expects to have its fee to the vendor cut in half, am I right again?
This hospital is sending out a signal, are you receiving it? My opinion would be, this is a clear indication that they are in money trouble.
This hospital is sending out a signal, are you receiving it? My opinion would be, this is a clear indication that they are in money trouble.
Thread Starter
As with any program the $$$ are always a concern, I can only guess that the hospital is doing ok based on their business model for growth (not the flight program).
When the hospital did ask for input on cost saving aspects of the FW program, the response was "we have always done it this way, why change"
When the hospital did ask for input on cost saving aspects of the FW program, the response was "we have always done it this way, why change"
