a bit of help please
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a bit of help please
firstly, i HAVE looked at the thread "so you wanna be a........." but haven't found an answer i want. I'm 24 from Ireland with 0 hours and had planned on going to bristow for the combined jaa/faa cpl course but there's a 2 year waitin list. any recommendations on other schools with as good a reputation as bristow? Oz, Nz, Canada etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Wardy.
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No doubt, this will be the first of many, BUT:
Where do you want to work? JAA-land? Then you need a JAA license. Outside of JAA-land, the only place doing them appears to be Bristows. So you can probably rule out Canada, Oz, NZ, SA, etc, unless you're prepared to go through the pain of converting a foreign license.
Where do you want to work? JAA-land? Then you need a JAA license. Outside of JAA-land, the only place doing them appears to be Bristows. So you can probably rule out Canada, Oz, NZ, SA, etc, unless you're prepared to go through the pain of converting a foreign license.
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There are other schools with as good, if not better, reputations than Bristows but they are all in JAA land and therefore more expensive.
However, I believe there is a school in Australia that will shortly be getting JAA authorisation; I can't remember its name but it was advertising on Pprune recently.
Cheers
Whirls
However, I believe there is a school in Australia that will shortly be getting JAA authorisation; I can't remember its name but it was advertising on Pprune recently.
Cheers
Whirls
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JAA-land is where I want to end up eventually. According to a school in SA, if i get an ICAO licence, I can get a verification for up to one year in JAA-land. I have talked to a few in NZ like Wanaka Helicopters,Helipro and Nelson Aviation College. I just haven't come across anyone that has trained there with the aim of getting a JAA. anyhoo, thanks for the info lads. Wardy
PS: Pandalet, is it really much grief converting?
PS: Pandalet, is it really much grief converting?
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Firstly, you need to to download LASORS from the CAA website - use google. This will tell you all about converting licences. Yes, it can be grief which is why I, and probably Pandalet, couldn't be bothered going abroad. It could cost just as much to go abroad and convert instead of just doing the training in your own country in the first places.
Secondly, you appear to be talking of the integrated training route; have you considered modular?
Cheers
Whirls
PS - both of us are lasses!!!
Secondly, you appear to be talking of the integrated training route; have you considered modular?
Cheers
Whirls
PS - both of us are lasses!!!
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One year verifications are EXTREMELY rare and not offered to to low-time pilots with just piston experience.
If you want a JAA licence PLEASE train at a JAA school. "Converting" licences is often a painful/expensive process.
I suggest doing your PPL in the UK, then seeing how you feel about dropping a further £50,000 on it as a career.
And remember... if you want to work as a helicopter pilot in any country, you need the correct licence, often flight experience, AND.... a work visa FOR THAT COUNTRY.
Please don't just google "helicopter schools" and then take a taxi to Gatwick, as an extraordinary number of people seem to do. Training as a helicopter pilot is not like taking a year off to travel around Australia. Do a LOT of research.
If you want a JAA licence PLEASE train at a JAA school. "Converting" licences is often a painful/expensive process.
I suggest doing your PPL in the UK, then seeing how you feel about dropping a further £50,000 on it as a career.
And remember... if you want to work as a helicopter pilot in any country, you need the correct licence, often flight experience, AND.... a work visa FOR THAT COUNTRY.
Please don't just google "helicopter schools" and then take a taxi to Gatwick, as an extraordinary number of people seem to do. Training as a helicopter pilot is not like taking a year off to travel around Australia. Do a LOT of research.
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Hey Wardy,
Did you get the PM I sent you the other day? What windowseatplease said about converting from ICAO to JAA being a pain in the arse is very true. I should know, I've spent the last 6 months studying the crap, and that was after me getting all my FAA ratings.
Did you get the PM I sent you the other day? What windowseatplease said about converting from ICAO to JAA being a pain in the arse is very true. I should know, I've spent the last 6 months studying the crap, and that was after me getting all my FAA ratings.
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windowseatplease: I beg to differ; Its not necessary MORE expensive to convert than a straight UK licence. A PPL in the UK is at the very least how much? minimum of GBP 9300? ...let's use that amount (25 dual/10 solo no groundschool):
GBP 9300 = USD 18,200
Around the corner here on the US Eastcoast you'll get an FAA PPL for the (very) minimum of USD 9,650 (20 dual/15 solo).
That gives you a few thousand bucks to play with.
(btw. in germany it cost next to nothing to convert it to a JAA PPL - just paperwork and a radio licence).
darrenphughes: What do you think my friends did at Bristow Academy (back than known as Helicopter Adventures)? they also sat in JAA groundschool for the better part of a year - but they did it in florida! So there's your pain in the arse too!
All I'm trying to say is that I've seen both sides: I had the same problem like Wardy, no vacancies - so I just did the FAA course with the intend to convert later but ended up staying here (no, I didn't marry an american
), now flying not only medium twins but also jets.
Some of my friends (most of 'em are now back in europe or anywhere else in the world) did the full blown combined course - most of 'em are now in the North Sea or offshore elsewhere.
Others went down the same path like I did, but they actually did the conversion - sure a pain in the butt, but not more difficult than the other way around. Some even said the IR was a peace of cake after they've flown IFR in the US.
Also you might want to consider the experience going someplace else in the world than your small island (just a slight pun intended) and meet people from all over the world - I wouldn't want to miss that experience, but that's just me!
Good luck whatever you decide to do!
GBP 9300 = USD 18,200
Around the corner here on the US Eastcoast you'll get an FAA PPL for the (very) minimum of USD 9,650 (20 dual/15 solo).
That gives you a few thousand bucks to play with.
(btw. in germany it cost next to nothing to convert it to a JAA PPL - just paperwork and a radio licence).
darrenphughes: What do you think my friends did at Bristow Academy (back than known as Helicopter Adventures)? they also sat in JAA groundschool for the better part of a year - but they did it in florida! So there's your pain in the arse too!
All I'm trying to say is that I've seen both sides: I had the same problem like Wardy, no vacancies - so I just did the FAA course with the intend to convert later but ended up staying here (no, I didn't marry an american
), now flying not only medium twins but also jets.Some of my friends (most of 'em are now back in europe or anywhere else in the world) did the full blown combined course - most of 'em are now in the North Sea or offshore elsewhere.
Others went down the same path like I did, but they actually did the conversion - sure a pain in the butt, but not more difficult than the other way around. Some even said the IR was a peace of cake after they've flown IFR in the US.
Also you might want to consider the experience going someplace else in the world than your small island (just a slight pun intended
) and meet people from all over the world - I wouldn't want to miss that experience, but that's just me!Good luck whatever you decide to do!
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So Phil, if you had to do it all again and you were definitely heading back to Europe after your training, what route would you go?
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One advantage of training in the country in which you finally wish to work, is that you build contacts. You do your PPL somewhere, CPL elsewhere, FI and IR at other places, each time meeting other pilots and operators. Not a quantifiable thing; intangible in cost terms.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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All I'm saying is do the research. I was at HAI a few years ago and I was astonished by the number of people doing FAA CPL licences who didn't even know you couldn't use them in the UK. There was even quite a few people who had signed up for entire PPL/CPL/IR courses who had never even been in a helicopter before (not ever a trial lesson). Amazing.
I would say 20-30% of people seemed to give it very little research and you could tell they were the ones who were not going to ever make a living as a pilot. ie - Do the FAA licences, come back to the UK $50,000 lighter, and go back to their old job.
Yes, there are ways to stay in the USA and work, but apart from marrying, not many at all.
Converting a PPL may be easier in some countries, but a CPL/IR/FI is another matter entirely. Ask anyone who has "converted" a FAA IR to a JAA one.
I would say 20-30% of people seemed to give it very little research and you could tell they were the ones who were not going to ever make a living as a pilot. ie - Do the FAA licences, come back to the UK $50,000 lighter, and go back to their old job.
Yes, there are ways to stay in the USA and work, but apart from marrying, not many at all.
Converting a PPL may be easier in some countries, but a CPL/IR/FI is another matter entirely. Ask anyone who has "converted" a FAA IR to a JAA one.
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Yes, you both have your points...
Whirls: the funny thing is, that right out of flight school I have met (and made connections) people from all over europe (last time I checked it was more than 50 people I'm still more or less in contact with) but only two or three americans
. But granted, they are probably not (yet) as influential than the guys you meet in the UK.
windowseatplease:
yea, very good point actually: DO YOUR RESEARCH! and make sure your budget isn't too tight! lots of people I heard of ran out of money quick!
...although I haven't heard of guys beeing so naive thinking they could easily transfer your licences when they already started to fly.
Btw. my introductory lesson was round-about 24 years before I went to Florida - I was 4!
I was just lucky to get the visa's (together with my wife) in the US - I never planned to stay. And yes its really hard to get a work permit!
darrenphughes:
I had no choice; I had to leave my (own) company at that point or never, so there was no option to wait for a spot in the JAA class.
Money was never budgeted for a JAA course in europe so it was a no-brainer.
In hindsight, yes I would do it again!
A friend of mine who went down the same route like I did, took the exams after his J-1 was expired, got the IR, flew in the north sea for about a year and is now on a Police EC-135. So it definately works that way!
´
I gotta go, but maybe later I'll find my spreadsheet with the actual cost I had till now (I was pretty much on time).
Whirls: the funny thing is, that right out of flight school I have met (and made connections) people from all over europe (last time I checked it was more than 50 people I'm still more or less in contact with) but only two or three americans
. But granted, they are probably not (yet) as influential than the guys you meet in the UK.windowseatplease:
yea, very good point actually: DO YOUR RESEARCH! and make sure your budget isn't too tight! lots of people I heard of ran out of money quick!
...although I haven't heard of guys beeing so naive thinking they could easily transfer your licences when they already started to fly.
Btw. my introductory lesson was round-about 24 years before I went to Florida - I was 4!
I was just lucky to get the visa's (together with my wife) in the US - I never planned to stay. And yes its really hard to get a work permit!
darrenphughes:
I had no choice; I had to leave my (own) company at that point or never, so there was no option to wait for a spot in the JAA class.
Money was never budgeted for a JAA course in europe so it was a no-brainer.
In hindsight, yes I would do it again!
A friend of mine who went down the same route like I did, took the exams after his J-1 was expired, got the IR, flew in the north sea for about a year and is now on a Police EC-135. So it definately works that way!
´
I gotta go, but maybe later I'll find my spreadsheet with the actual cost I had till now (I was pretty much on time).
Last edited by Phil77; 14th Jun 2008 at 14:25. Reason: a lot of spelign angd grammar
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The only thing nobody explained to me yet is WHY would it be more expensive?
I mean with the US Dollar beeing so weak these days, it should be roughly equal (because of a few hour differences training) if not alot cheaper!?
Could somebody please back it up with some good old math?
Whilrs: I could name at least 5 people that did the transition (successfully) and who are working in JAA land now - granted, people who have failed usually don't advertise it later; I do know of two who didn't make it anyway. On the other hand I've heard of at least two other guys who couldn't get a job with the full blown JAA course completed. After all you still will be interviewed and need to pass a simulator checkride!
Bottomline: it is "possible" - like that term better?`
(I'm embarrassed
, I should have read over the stuff I wrote in my post last night before posting so many spelling mistakes and needless words...)
I mean with the US Dollar beeing so weak these days, it should be roughly equal (because of a few hour differences training) if not alot cheaper!?
Could somebody please back it up with some good old math?
Whilrs: I could name at least 5 people that did the transition (successfully) and who are working in JAA land now - granted, people who have failed usually don't advertise it later; I do know of two who didn't make it anyway. On the other hand I've heard of at least two other guys who couldn't get a job with the full blown JAA course completed. After all you still will be interviewed and need to pass a simulator checkride!
Bottomline: it is "possible" - like that term better?`
(I'm embarrassed
, I should have read over the stuff I wrote in my post last night before posting so many spelling mistakes and needless words...)
Last edited by Phil77; 14th Jun 2008 at 14:49. Reason: Adding reply to Whirls
Hovering AND talking
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Yes Phil77, I do prefer the word "possible" rather than "definitely". I can't provide any maths because I didn't do "those sums"; however, I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from instructors converting FAA students to JAA and, in a lot of cases, it's been more than "a few hours". In a few cases, I've heard guys taking nearly the whole JAA course anyway!!! These instructors have no reason to sell JAA to me as going to the States to train was not an option (well, it was, but one I discounted pretty quickly for personal reasons); so, no axes to grind there.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Yea, no axes here either, just wanted to know why people advertising one way before the other by claiming to know its "better" that way (please realise, I never said that the way I did it was the better one, I just explained that it worked for me and others and I'm glad I did it).
Oh and most certainly there are a lot of bad schools around (everywhere in the world) maybe thats where your instructor friends students came from? But if I remember right, we where talking about Bristow here; you can be sure that the quality of training is top notch, also on the FAA side.
Oh and most certainly there are a lot of bad schools around (everywhere in the world) maybe thats where your instructor friends students came from? But if I remember right, we where talking about Bristow here; you can be sure that the quality of training is top notch, also on the FAA side.
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The trouble with "converting" licences is that it's often at the schools or the instructors discretion how much training you need. Every instructor/school/country wants things done THEIR way.
The local area will be different, the radio calls will definitely be different, the maneuvers will be taught in a different way. Also some schools in the UK had an VERY anti-FAA/foreign licence attitude and if you turn up with your licence and saying "LASORS says I only need 'training as necessary' and the skills test" the school often thinks "we'll show this guy that things are done different here", and you're in for 10 hours flying at £300 per hour. That's wiped out any savings you made going abroad to begin with.
Speaking as a person who has converted a CPL, FI, AND a IR from the FAA system to JAA, I can say it ALWAYS takes more time than you think.
My advice, when heading abroad for training, do thorough research and add 30%-40% onto any "converting costs" you have budgeted for.
Don't say I didn't warn you...
The local area will be different, the radio calls will definitely be different, the maneuvers will be taught in a different way. Also some schools in the UK had an VERY anti-FAA/foreign licence attitude and if you turn up with your licence and saying "LASORS says I only need 'training as necessary' and the skills test" the school often thinks "we'll show this guy that things are done different here", and you're in for 10 hours flying at £300 per hour. That's wiped out any savings you made going abroad to begin with.
Speaking as a person who has converted a CPL, FI, AND a IR from the FAA system to JAA, I can say it ALWAYS takes more time than you think.
My advice, when heading abroad for training, do thorough research and add 30%-40% onto any "converting costs" you have budgeted for.
Don't say I didn't warn you...