Water Ditching
Join Date: Oct 2012
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It has been alluded to, but not said that I've seen, so I will: the right thing to do in a ditching depends greatly on what you are flying!
There is a world of difference between a 206 on skids that wandered too far from shore (or is looking at a river) and a 225 80nm offshore in the North Sea.
There is almost as much difference in the 'fidelity' of the various HUET dunkers out there. Survival Systems of Dartmouth, NS, Canada has an incredible setup, for instance, that simulates all the worst ocean weather, helicopter cabin/cockpits, window types, and roll-over/sink scenarios. Others are just a box that flips over with doors, etc that can most generously be described as generic. The former is what militaries will use (pay for) whereas on the civil side I've found I'm more likely to be subjected to the latter.
Before you fly close to water, ask yourself about floats, door jettisons, windows, location of survival equipment, life jackets, and so on. Don't forget weather, season, temperatures, clothing.....
If you are going to land on the water, there will be differences between:
1. CFIT/W
2. Auto/OEI class 3
3. Land immediately
4. Land as soon as possible
5. Lots of time but no choice (ie fuel leak)
Personally, I would be very surprised if any helicopter without floats stayed anywhere near vertical once in the water unless held there under power. I agree to hold the rotor clear of the water as long as possible (minimum rpm).
I am envious of the waterbird time many 61 drivers have had.
Based on my own unfortunate experience I can offer the following observations:
1. You will react the way you have trained/planned. Do it right.
2. If the rotor hits the water at full RPM, there is nothing gentle about the result.
3. If the tail rotor hits the water under power, same thing.
4. If you think your cockpit is uncluttered, take a closer look. Every one of those pieces of [vital] kit will be in the way at the wrong time.
5. Wear what you need, gear that is safely tucked away likely won't make it out with you.
Just as the decisions that wind up putting you in the water were made long before you get wet, how you handle it and whether you survive will have been decided just as long ago. Be prepared.
There is a world of difference between a 206 on skids that wandered too far from shore (or is looking at a river) and a 225 80nm offshore in the North Sea.
There is almost as much difference in the 'fidelity' of the various HUET dunkers out there. Survival Systems of Dartmouth, NS, Canada has an incredible setup, for instance, that simulates all the worst ocean weather, helicopter cabin/cockpits, window types, and roll-over/sink scenarios. Others are just a box that flips over with doors, etc that can most generously be described as generic. The former is what militaries will use (pay for) whereas on the civil side I've found I'm more likely to be subjected to the latter.
Before you fly close to water, ask yourself about floats, door jettisons, windows, location of survival equipment, life jackets, and so on. Don't forget weather, season, temperatures, clothing.....
If you are going to land on the water, there will be differences between:
1. CFIT/W
2. Auto/OEI class 3
3. Land immediately
4. Land as soon as possible
5. Lots of time but no choice (ie fuel leak)
Personally, I would be very surprised if any helicopter without floats stayed anywhere near vertical once in the water unless held there under power. I agree to hold the rotor clear of the water as long as possible (minimum rpm).
I am envious of the waterbird time many 61 drivers have had.
Based on my own unfortunate experience I can offer the following observations:
1. You will react the way you have trained/planned. Do it right.
2. If the rotor hits the water at full RPM, there is nothing gentle about the result.
3. If the tail rotor hits the water under power, same thing.
4. If you think your cockpit is uncluttered, take a closer look. Every one of those pieces of [vital] kit will be in the way at the wrong time.
5. Wear what you need, gear that is safely tucked away likely won't make it out with you.
Just as the decisions that wind up putting you in the water were made long before you get wet, how you handle it and whether you survive will have been decided just as long ago. Be prepared.
A couple of extracts from RFM's
Who knew? 
SCHWEIZER AIRCRAFT CORP.
Emergency Procedures
Pilot's Flight Manual
Model 269C Helicopter
3-4. DITCHING -POWER OFF
Note: Follow the procedures defined in paragraphs 3-1
through 3-3 for autorotation approach and landing .
Upon contact with water, proceed as follows:
Lower collective pitch and apply sideward cyclic stick after contact
is made with water.
.. Application of cyclic stick will cause rotor blades to strike water and stop rotating .
• Release seat belt and shoulder harness .
• Open both doors and exit helicopter.
WARNING
CLEAR HELICOPTER IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT INJURY .
3-5. DITCHING - POWER ON
• Descend to hovering attitude over water.
Set battery and alternator switches in OFF position.
• Leave magneto switch in ON position .
Unlatch door.
Maintain level attitude; accomplish normal landing .
Close throttle .
Lower collective pitch and apply sideward cyclic stick after contact
is made with water.
•
Note: Application of cyclic stick will cause rotor blades to strike water and stop rotation.
Release seat belt and shoulder harness.
Open both doors and exit helicopter.
WARNING
CLEAR HELICOPTER IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT INJURY.
Emergency Procedures
Pilot's Flight Manual
Model 269C Helicopter
3-4. DITCHING -POWER OFF
Note: Follow the procedures defined in paragraphs 3-1
through 3-3 for autorotation approach and landing .
Upon contact with water, proceed as follows:
Lower collective pitch and apply sideward cyclic stick after contact
is made with water.
.. Application of cyclic stick will cause rotor blades to strike water and stop rotating .
• Release seat belt and shoulder harness .
• Open both doors and exit helicopter.
WARNING
CLEAR HELICOPTER IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT INJURY .
3-5. DITCHING - POWER ON
• Descend to hovering attitude over water.
Set battery and alternator switches in OFF position.
• Leave magneto switch in ON position .
Unlatch door.
Maintain level attitude; accomplish normal landing .
Close throttle .
Lower collective pitch and apply sideward cyclic stick after contact
is made with water.
•
Note: Application of cyclic stick will cause rotor blades to strike water and stop rotation.
Release seat belt and shoulder harness.
Open both doors and exit helicopter.
WARNING
CLEAR HELICOPTER IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT INJURY.
ROBINSON HELICOPTER COMPANY
TORRANCE, CALIFORNIA
SECTION 3
EMERGENCY PROCEDURES
Robinson R22 and R44 FAA Approved Rotorcraft Flight Manual
DITCHING - POWER OFF
1 . Follow same procedures as for power failure over land
until contacting water.
2. Apply lateral cyclic when aircraft contacts water to stop
blades from rotating.
3. Release seat belt and quickly clear aircraft when blades
stop rotating.
DITCHING - POWER ON
1 . Descend to hover above water.
2. Unlatch doors.
3. Passengers exit aircraft.
4. Fly to safe distance from passengers to avoid possible
injury by blades.
5. Switch off battery and alternator.
6. Roll throttle off into detent spring.
7. Keep aircraft level and apply full collective as aircraft
contacts water.
8. Apply lateral cyclic to stop blades from rotating.
9. Release seat belt and quickly clear aircraft when blades
stop rotating.
TORRANCE, CALIFORNIA
SECTION 3
EMERGENCY PROCEDURES
Robinson R22 and R44 FAA Approved Rotorcraft Flight Manual
DITCHING - POWER OFF
1 . Follow same procedures as for power failure over land
until contacting water.
2. Apply lateral cyclic when aircraft contacts water to stop
blades from rotating.
3. Release seat belt and quickly clear aircraft when blades
stop rotating.
DITCHING - POWER ON
1 . Descend to hover above water.
2. Unlatch doors.
3. Passengers exit aircraft.
4. Fly to safe distance from passengers to avoid possible
injury by blades.
5. Switch off battery and alternator.
6. Roll throttle off into detent spring.
7. Keep aircraft level and apply full collective as aircraft
contacts water.
8. Apply lateral cyclic to stop blades from rotating.
9. Release seat belt and quickly clear aircraft when blades
stop rotating.
In another post I asked about the brief one pilot gave should we have had to ditch during a 20 minute crossing. He advised that if he had power he would bring it to a low hover and passengers would jump out, he would fly on a short distance and lower it into the water.
Any further comments?
Mickjoebill
Any further comments?
Mickjoebill
Join Date: Oct 2012
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If there are floats, use them. If the a/c had no floats, should it really be out there.
If you find yourself in this predicament, the only other issue to consider that I see right now, is that all your survival gear flies away as well.
Otherwise, see above.....
If you find yourself in this predicament, the only other issue to consider that I see right now, is that all your survival gear flies away as well.
Otherwise, see above.....
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
BBC News - New Zealand helicopter ditches in Auckland harbour
A pilot had to ditch his helicopter in the Auckland harbour, but managed to safely escape the aircraft along with his fellow crew member.
Peter Maloney was flying a carbon fibre helicopter designed and built by his company, when he observed a turbine warning light.
"I heard an audible warning and then I declared a mayday and made an emergency auto rotation," he said.
Crew member Nina Heatley said the landing was "amazingly smooth for an emergency landing". The pair were rescued by the navy within minutes. Mr Maloney said they had been flying over the water because they were still in their flight evaluation phase.
Peter Maloney was flying a carbon fibre helicopter designed and built by his company, when he observed a turbine warning light.
"I heard an audible warning and then I declared a mayday and made an emergency auto rotation," he said.
Crew member Nina Heatley said the landing was "amazingly smooth for an emergency landing". The pair were rescued by the navy within minutes. Mr Maloney said they had been flying over the water because they were still in their flight evaluation phase.
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I don't know the rules for experimentals in NZ, but I would think that if flight over built up areas was an issue, being over water (outside gliding range) in a single without floats would be an issue as well.
In the end, they are both ok. Good. Hopefully better planning in the future.
In the end, they are both ok. Good. Hopefully better planning in the future.
NZ not being a nanny state (yet), Part 91 applies.
PVT Ops
applies. S/E beyond glide from land.
PVT Ops
your lifejacket is under your seat
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Sounds like your briefer has either seen to many movies or read too much fiction.
There are obviously some situations where a power on controlled ditching is possible but if it necessitates a water landing who, in their right mind, would come to a hover to drop the passengers out of the door first (extra strain on transmission and jettison door syndrome) and then perform a controlled ditching.
There are obviously some situations where a power on controlled ditching is possible but if it necessitates a water landing who, in their right mind, would come to a hover to drop the passengers out of the door first (extra strain on transmission and jettison door syndrome) and then perform a controlled ditching.
RVDT: " I read it in a boooook".
I contest the described advice wholeheartedly. How many robinson/schweizer pilots have done ditching trials, I ask?
Secondly, I ask this: Why bother 'immediately' tempting fate by rolling the cab over as soon as possible. Why the rush? Because the moment you apply lateral cyclic, you are comitted to egressing the cab and inviting personal injury in so doing (which is why they warn you about it!!!!).
Sitting on the surface (of what could be a flat calm lake/river/sea might give you time to get your act together before the next inevitable scene wherein the cab sinks anyway. ANY time in addition to inverting the cockpit into cold dark water is better than an immediate rotating into the unknown.
In my humble experience I would NEVER advocate an immediate rotation, it, quite simply reduces your options.
Sbdorset: The RN and the RAF advocate a controlled exit from the aircraft before ditching thus minimising risk to human life for those who have left the a/c before the lone occupant taxi's well away from them and ditches controllably into the drink. It is an SOP.
Given the choice if you were sitting in the back of a helo and invited to jump 5 feet into the water with all your kit at the ready, OR stay inside with others around you and await a ditching and subsequent sinking with the associated mayhem.....what would you prefer?
I contest the described advice wholeheartedly. How many robinson/schweizer pilots have done ditching trials, I ask?
Secondly, I ask this: Why bother 'immediately' tempting fate by rolling the cab over as soon as possible. Why the rush? Because the moment you apply lateral cyclic, you are comitted to egressing the cab and inviting personal injury in so doing (which is why they warn you about it!!!!).
Sitting on the surface (of what could be a flat calm lake/river/sea might give you time to get your act together before the next inevitable scene wherein the cab sinks anyway. ANY time in addition to inverting the cockpit into cold dark water is better than an immediate rotating into the unknown.
In my humble experience I would NEVER advocate an immediate rotation, it, quite simply reduces your options.
Sbdorset: The RN and the RAF advocate a controlled exit from the aircraft before ditching thus minimising risk to human life for those who have left the a/c before the lone occupant taxi's well away from them and ditches controllably into the drink. It is an SOP.
Given the choice if you were sitting in the back of a helo and invited to jump 5 feet into the water with all your kit at the ready, OR stay inside with others around you and await a ditching and subsequent sinking with the associated mayhem.....what would you prefer?
TC,
Think it through for a minute.
The idea is to get it on the surface and get out.
Without bags it may float but not for long. You have no idea how long.
You need to get out of the thing. It will probably float for the same amount of time upright or on its side or inverted.
Getting out while the blades are rotating is NOT an option.
Stop the blades quickly - make a conscious decision.
It worked like a charm for the machine in NZ as the pilot has quoted that this is what he did.
And how many that have done ditching trials have flown a Robinson or Schweizer?
They probably dont have to. But if they do end up ditching for whatever reason this is the procedure. i.e. least worse case. Its in the Flight Manual.
And so you may as we clearly understand you are entitled to an opinion like anyone.
I am just quoting the RFM as published.
Think it through for a minute.
The idea is to get it on the surface and get out.
Without bags it may float but not for long. You have no idea how long.
You need to get out of the thing. It will probably float for the same amount of time upright or on its side or inverted.
Getting out while the blades are rotating is NOT an option.
Stop the blades quickly - make a conscious decision.
It worked like a charm for the machine in NZ as the pilot has quoted that this is what he did.
How many robinson/schweizer pilots have done ditching trials, I ask?
They probably dont have to. But if they do end up ditching for whatever reason this is the procedure. i.e. least worse case. Its in the Flight Manual.
I contest the described advice wholeheartedly
I am just quoting the RFM as published.
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I will try and get the thread back on track......with a bit more information.
You are carrying out a deck landing. The aircraft is fitted with floats that can be inflated manually or automatically on impact and the crew are all HUET trained. While alongside the ship you suffer an engine failure and unable to fly away due to height / performance issues you carry out a controlled ditching into the sea. The issue I was describing is whether with one cabin door open you are more likely to turn upside down than with both cabin doors closed.
Any advice welcome.
You are carrying out a deck landing. The aircraft is fitted with floats that can be inflated manually or automatically on impact and the crew are all HUET trained. While alongside the ship you suffer an engine failure and unable to fly away due to height / performance issues you carry out a controlled ditching into the sea. The issue I was describing is whether with one cabin door open you are more likely to turn upside down than with both cabin doors closed.
Any advice welcome.
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I think that the factor that most determines cabin position after impact is its position during fuselage hit and during rotor hit. So,after squeezing most of the RPM, maybe burying tail first to get large area into water, then hit rotors on the side (right for CW, and left for CCW so the tail don't emerse but to go in, and, whatever brakes now (blades, gearbox,...) at least cabin should be more or less in steady descent? After this, depending on the fuel quantity, thanks to vertical CofG it will probably go upside down (thanx to gearbox(es), engine(s), all up)...
