Private Site Landings
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Private Site Landings
Hi All, after a bit of free advice if at all possible. I have a field large enough to safely land in without breaking Rule 5 and I am wondering what the legality of me or friends landing here is. Someone told me I can land 28 times and another guy told me I can land here for 28 days in a year regardeless of how many movements I do without any bother. I have a neighbour who lives some way away and I get the feeling he is not a lover of helicopters in the same way as we all are, and I hope I haven't left myself open to the humourists on that one.
Anyway, any helpful advice would be much appreciated.
ChippyChop
Anyway, any helpful advice would be much appreciated.
ChippyChop
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Chippy,
Check out www.bhab.flyer.co.uk for advice on landing sites, you should be fine.
Good luck!
BC
Check out www.bhab.flyer.co.uk for advice on landing sites, you should be fine.
Good luck!
BC
28 DAYS a year is the planning threshold before you need to apply for change of use. Then there's the good old curtilage rule. Is the field close enough to your home to be deemed in the same curtilage ? If so you don't need planning.
What's the legal def of curtilage ? It's the amenity land around a main dwelling. There are various interpretations as to the size of that land, but no set formula. If there's a distant building that is part of the services to the house, then it has been successfully argued that the land between those buildings is curtilage.
Any improvements you make to curtilage land are not subject to CGT when you sell. Tax-free helipads for private flyers!
What's the legal def of curtilage ? It's the amenity land around a main dwelling. There are various interpretations as to the size of that land, but no set formula. If there's a distant building that is part of the services to the house, then it has been successfully argued that the land between those buildings is curtilage.
Any improvements you make to curtilage land are not subject to CGT when you sell. Tax-free helipads for private flyers!
I know that it's not directly related to your question but you seem a little confused over Rule 5. As long as the landing is within 'normal aviation practice', Rule 5 does not apply when taking off or landing. ie you can land within 500ft of your neighbours.
HTH
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Bravo 73
Originally Posted by ChippyChop
I have a field large enough to safely land in without breaking Rule 5
Ive often wondered what would be the case then, if a missed approach was carried out to a site like this, at what point does rule 5 re apply to the missed approach phase? As soon as you enter? or is the missed approach,which could easily send you over a neighbours house at less than 500ft, part of "normal aviation practice"?
HJ
I have a field large enough to safely land in without breaking Rule 5
Ive often wondered what would be the case then, if a missed approach was carried out to a site like this, at what point does rule 5 re apply to the missed approach phase? As soon as you enter? or is the missed approach,which could easily send you over a neighbours house at less than 500ft, part of "normal aviation practice"?
HJ
A missed approach is part of 'normal aviation practices'. However, a number of dummy approaches to a site (without landing) might be stretching the definition of 'normal aviation practices' a bit far.
And I should add to my above post: the part of Rule 5 relating to 'in the event of a power unit failure, no damage to people or property' will always stand. ie no approaches or departures over neighbours' buildings etc.
And I should add to my above post: the part of Rule 5 relating to 'in the event of a power unit failure, no damage to people or property' will always stand. ie no approaches or departures over neighbours' buildings etc.
Chaps
It's quite a commonly held misconception that Rule 5 does not apply when taking off and landing - BEWARE - it does!
Rule 5 has many sub-paragraphs and most of these apply most of the time. When landing at an unlicensed site (ie; your own garden or field) the only element that doesn't apply is what's termed 'the 500ft rule'. Everything else still does!
Things are much less restrictive when landing at a Licensed or Government aerodrome; but that's not in discussion here.
Particularly, beware of the '1000ft rule' and the 'landing without damage to....' rule when operating from private sites.
JJ
It's quite a commonly held misconception that Rule 5 does not apply when taking off and landing - BEWARE - it does!
Rule 5 has many sub-paragraphs and most of these apply most of the time. When landing at an unlicensed site (ie; your own garden or field) the only element that doesn't apply is what's termed 'the 500ft rule'. Everything else still does!
Things are much less restrictive when landing at a Licensed or Government aerodrome; but that's not in discussion here.
Particularly, beware of the '1000ft rule' and the 'landing without damage to....' rule when operating from private sites.
JJ
Its really a case of piecing together Rule 5 (Low flying prohibitions) & Rule 6 (Exemptions from the low flying prohibitions).
Rule 5 (3) (b) (500ft rule) doesn't apply when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice but the rest of the rule still applies including 'An aircraft shall not be flown below such height as would enable it to make an emergency landing without causing danger to persons or property on the surface in the event of a power unit failure.'
Rule 5 (3) (b) (500ft rule) doesn't apply when landing or taking off in accordance with normal aviation practice but the rest of the rule still applies including 'An aircraft shall not be flown below such height as would enable it to make an emergency landing without causing danger to persons or property on the surface in the event of a power unit failure.'
Rule 5 ANO ignorance
JJ reminds everyone of an often forgotten point......
Received a call from a pilot enquiring if they could use our site at work.....nothing wrong with that....he wished to arrive the next day so I asked if he had obtained ANO Rule 5 waiver as unlicenced site is in a 'congested area'.
He was under the impression that aslong as he was making an approach to land than such height/land clear stipulations didn't apply......beggars belief but there you have it.
One wonders how long such experienced pilots have been carrying on in such a fashion?
Received a call from a pilot enquiring if they could use our site at work.....nothing wrong with that....he wished to arrive the next day so I asked if he had obtained ANO Rule 5 waiver as unlicenced site is in a 'congested area'.
He was under the impression that aslong as he was making an approach to land than such height/land clear stipulations didn't apply......beggars belief but there you have it.
One wonders how long such experienced pilots have been carrying on in such a fashion?
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You don't actually need to get your neighbour's permission or agreement if you comply with the rules; at least, not in law.
The relevant part affecting a landing is now 5.(2)(c), namely the "1000ft rule". Essentially, you need to be laterally clear of a congested area by 600m; i.e. a gap 1200m wide (plus your rotor span
) would be the minimum to route into a congested area.
Now, the definition of a "congested area", anyone?
SECTION 3
LOW FLYING RULE
Low flying prohibitions
5.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), an aircraft shall comply with the low flying prohibitions in
paragraph (3) unless exempted by rule 6.
(2) If an aircraft is flying in circumstances such that more than one of the low flying prohibitions
apply, it shall fly at the greatest height required by any of the applicable prohibitions.
(3) The low flying prohibitions are as follows—
(a) Failure of power unit
An aircraft shall not be flown below such height as would enable it to make an
emergency landing without causing danger to persons or property on the surface in the
event of a power unit failure.
(b) The 500 feet rule
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft shall not be flown closer than
500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.
(c) The 1,000 feet rule
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft flying over a congested area
of a city town or settlement shall not fly below a height of 1,000 feet above the highest
fixed obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres of the aircraft.
(d) The land clear rule
An aircraft flying over a congested area of a city, town or settlement shall not fly below
such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the congested area in the event of
a power unit failure.
(e) Flying over open air assemblies
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft shall not fly over an organised
open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons below the higher of the following
heights—
(i) 1,000 feet; or
30 March 2007
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 6
(ii) such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the assembly in the event of
a power unit failure.
(f) Landing and taking off near open air assemblies
An aircraft shall not land or take-off within 1,000 metres of an organised, open-air
assembly of more than 1,000 persons except—
(i) at an aerodrome, in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or
(ii) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome, in accordance with procedures notified
by the CAA and with the written permission of the organiser of the assembly.
Exemptions from the low flying prohibitions
6. The exemptions from the low flying prohibitions are as follows—
(a) Landing and taking off
(i) Any aircraft shall be exempt from the low flying prohibitions in so far as it is flying
in accordance with normal aviation practice for the purpose of—
(aa) taking off from, landing at or practising approaches to landing at; or
(bb) checking navigational aids or procedures at,
a Government or licensed aerodrome.
(ii) Any aircraft shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule when landing and taking-off in
accordance with normal aviation practice or air-taxiing.
(b) Captive balloons and kites
None of the low flying prohibitions shall apply to any captive balloon or kite.
(c) Special VFR flight and notified routes
(i) Subject to paragraph (ii), any aircraft shall be exempt from the 1,000 feet rule if—
(aa) it is flying on a special VFR flight; or
(bb) it is operating in accordance with the procedures notified for the route being
flown.
(ii) Unless the written permission of the CAA has been obtained, landings may only be
made by an aircraft flying under this exemption at a licensed or Government
aerodrome.
(d) Balloons and helicopters over congested areas
(i) A balloon shall be exempt from the 1,000 feet rule if it is landing because it is
becalmed.
(ii) Any helicopter flying over a congested area shall be exempt from the land clear rule.
(e) Police air operator’s certificate
Any aircraft flying in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate shall
be exempt from the 500 feet rule, the 1,000 feet rule and the prohibitions on flying over
open air assemblies and on landing and taking off near open air assemblies.
(f) Flying displays etc
An aircraft taking part in a flying display, air race or contest shall be exempt from the 500
feet rule if it is within a horizontal distance of 1,000 metres of the gathering of persons
assembled to witness the event.
(g) Glider hill-soaring
A glider shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule if it is hill-soaring.
(h) Picking up and dropping at an aerodrome
Any aircraft picking up or dropping tow ropes, banners or similar articles at an aerodrome
shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule.
(i) Manoeuvring helicopters
30 March 2007
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 7
(i) Subject to paragraph (ii), a helicopter shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule if it is
conducting manoeuvres, in accordance with normal aviation practice, within the
boundaries of a licensed or Government aerodrome or, with the written permission of
the CAA, at other sites.
(ii) When flying in accordance with this exemption the helicopter must not be operated
closer than 60 metres to any persons, vessels, vehicles or structures located outside
the aerodrome or site.
The relevant part affecting a landing is now 5.(2)(c), namely the "1000ft rule". Essentially, you need to be laterally clear of a congested area by 600m; i.e. a gap 1200m wide (plus your rotor span
) would be the minimum to route into a congested area.Now, the definition of a "congested area", anyone?
SECTION 3
LOW FLYING RULE
Low flying prohibitions
5.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), an aircraft shall comply with the low flying prohibitions in
paragraph (3) unless exempted by rule 6.
(2) If an aircraft is flying in circumstances such that more than one of the low flying prohibitions
apply, it shall fly at the greatest height required by any of the applicable prohibitions.
(3) The low flying prohibitions are as follows—
(a) Failure of power unit
An aircraft shall not be flown below such height as would enable it to make an
emergency landing without causing danger to persons or property on the surface in the
event of a power unit failure.
(b) The 500 feet rule
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft shall not be flown closer than
500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.
(c) The 1,000 feet rule
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft flying over a congested area
of a city town or settlement shall not fly below a height of 1,000 feet above the highest
fixed obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres of the aircraft.
(d) The land clear rule
An aircraft flying over a congested area of a city, town or settlement shall not fly below
such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the congested area in the event of
a power unit failure.
(e) Flying over open air assemblies
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft shall not fly over an organised
open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons below the higher of the following
heights—
(i) 1,000 feet; or
30 March 2007
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 6
(ii) such height as would permit the aircraft to land clear of the assembly in the event of
a power unit failure.
(f) Landing and taking off near open air assemblies
An aircraft shall not land or take-off within 1,000 metres of an organised, open-air
assembly of more than 1,000 persons except—
(i) at an aerodrome, in accordance with procedures notified by the CAA; or
(ii) at a landing site which is not an aerodrome, in accordance with procedures notified
by the CAA and with the written permission of the organiser of the assembly.
Exemptions from the low flying prohibitions
6. The exemptions from the low flying prohibitions are as follows—
(a) Landing and taking off
(i) Any aircraft shall be exempt from the low flying prohibitions in so far as it is flying
in accordance with normal aviation practice for the purpose of—
(aa) taking off from, landing at or practising approaches to landing at; or
(bb) checking navigational aids or procedures at,
a Government or licensed aerodrome.
(ii) Any aircraft shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule when landing and taking-off in
accordance with normal aviation practice or air-taxiing.
(b) Captive balloons and kites
None of the low flying prohibitions shall apply to any captive balloon or kite.
(c) Special VFR flight and notified routes
(i) Subject to paragraph (ii), any aircraft shall be exempt from the 1,000 feet rule if—
(aa) it is flying on a special VFR flight; or
(bb) it is operating in accordance with the procedures notified for the route being
flown.
(ii) Unless the written permission of the CAA has been obtained, landings may only be
made by an aircraft flying under this exemption at a licensed or Government
aerodrome.
(d) Balloons and helicopters over congested areas
(i) A balloon shall be exempt from the 1,000 feet rule if it is landing because it is
becalmed.
(ii) Any helicopter flying over a congested area shall be exempt from the land clear rule.
(e) Police air operator’s certificate
Any aircraft flying in accordance with the terms of a police air operator’s certificate shall
be exempt from the 500 feet rule, the 1,000 feet rule and the prohibitions on flying over
open air assemblies and on landing and taking off near open air assemblies.
(f) Flying displays etc
An aircraft taking part in a flying display, air race or contest shall be exempt from the 500
feet rule if it is within a horizontal distance of 1,000 metres of the gathering of persons
assembled to witness the event.
(g) Glider hill-soaring
A glider shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule if it is hill-soaring.
(h) Picking up and dropping at an aerodrome
Any aircraft picking up or dropping tow ropes, banners or similar articles at an aerodrome
shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule.
(i) Manoeuvring helicopters
30 March 2007
CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Section 2 Page 7
(i) Subject to paragraph (ii), a helicopter shall be exempt from the 500 feet rule if it is
conducting manoeuvres, in accordance with normal aviation practice, within the
boundaries of a licensed or Government aerodrome or, with the written permission of
the CAA, at other sites.
(ii) When flying in accordance with this exemption the helicopter must not be operated
closer than 60 metres to any persons, vessels, vehicles or structures located outside
the aerodrome or site.
Article 155 of the ANO
'Congested area' in relation to a city, town or settlement, means any area which is
substantially used for residential, industrial, commercial or recreational purposes;
'Congested area' in relation to a city, town or settlement, means any area which is
substantially used for residential, industrial, commercial or recreational purposes;
Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reference to the BHAB site Bladecrack (geez gotta be careful not to get the 'l' and the 'a' round the wrong way, a bit porno really) that was very helpful. Thanks also to all re the Rule 5 discussion.
Cheers
Chippy
Cheers
Chippy
****e
You state 'The relevant part affecting a landing is now 5.(2)(c), namely the "1000ft rule". Essentially, you need to be laterally clear of a congested area by 600m; i.e. a gap 1200m wide (plus your rotor span ) would be the minimum to route into a congested area.@'
Not so. The key wording of 'the 1000ft rule' is "an aircraft flying over a congested area". Therefore, if your rotors aren't over someones back garden at the edge of the town for example, you are not over the congested area.
I interpreted the rule exactly as you did until I spoke with Keith Thomas in General Aviation. I wanted a client of mine to apply for an exemption to land in a field next to a caravan site on the edge of Skegness. Even though it was well within 600m (about 20 metres in fact!) Keith advised us that an exemtion from the '1000 ft rule' was not required provided at no time would the helicopter physically fly over the congested area.
Therefore, if the tips of your rotors stray over the 'boundary' of a congested area you must ensure you're above 1000ft of the highest obstacle within 600m.
Cheers
JJ
You state 'The relevant part affecting a landing is now 5.(2)(c), namely the "1000ft rule". Essentially, you need to be laterally clear of a congested area by 600m; i.e. a gap 1200m wide (plus your rotor span ) would be the minimum to route into a congested area.@'
Not so. The key wording of 'the 1000ft rule' is "an aircraft flying over a congested area". Therefore, if your rotors aren't over someones back garden at the edge of the town for example, you are not over the congested area.
I interpreted the rule exactly as you did until I spoke with Keith Thomas in General Aviation. I wanted a client of mine to apply for an exemption to land in a field next to a caravan site on the edge of Skegness. Even though it was well within 600m (about 20 metres in fact!) Keith advised us that an exemtion from the '1000 ft rule' was not required provided at no time would the helicopter physically fly over the congested area.
Therefore, if the tips of your rotors stray over the 'boundary' of a congested area you must ensure you're above 1000ft of the highest obstacle within 600m.
Cheers
JJ
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Congested area rule
Ah yes ... we have the ANO daffyination of congested alright... But the rule says ... "substantially used." You won't find an ANO definition of 'substantial' I can assure you.
The CAA approach the local planning department when a prosecution is under consideration.
DRK
The CAA approach the local planning department when a prosecution is under consideration.
DRK
JJ
Is it any wonder we all have different interpretations, I got exactly Shytorques definition from an FOI a while back , in that over the land within 600m of the congested area counted as part of the area.
I think the relevant bit being 5(3)(c)
, seems that Keith may interpret this to mean that if you are not over the 'congested bit' then the 600m bit doesn't count.
I feel a phone call coming on tomorrow, however on this one I am more than happy to be proven wrong, makes life easier for all of us.
Den
I've always applied substantially to mean more than 50% of the area, however that is my interpretation, as you quite correctly say you won't find what they mean by substantially in the ANO or the Rules of The Air.
GS
Is it any wonder we all have different interpretations, I got exactly Shytorques definition from an FOI a while back , in that over the land within 600m of the congested area counted as part of the area.
I think the relevant bit being 5(3)(c)
Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft flying over a congested area
of a city town or settlement shall not fly below a height of 1,000 feet above the highest
fixed obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres of the aircraft.
of a city town or settlement shall not fly below a height of 1,000 feet above the highest
fixed obstacle within a horizontal radius of 600 metres of the aircraft.
I feel a phone call coming on tomorrow, however on this one I am more than happy to be proven wrong, makes life easier for all of us.
Den
I've always applied substantially to mean more than 50% of the area, however that is my interpretation, as you quite correctly say you won't find what they mean by substantially in the ANO or the Rules of The Air.
GS
Last edited by VeeAny; 27th Apr 2008 at 20:31.
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Jelly,
Yes, on the edge of a congested area, I would agree, but if your LS is in the congested area (I would suggest that one building behind you makes it so), you need a gap of 1200m unless you have a written exemption.
Ask Keith T. to put it in writing, see what he says then. The only way you will find out for sure is if you get your day in court. Personally, I would rather not risk that option.
I had a written discussion with the legal branch of the CAA a few years back when a local PPL holder resident complained, quoting Rule 5 (actually the 1500 foot rule as it was then), about the police helicopter I flew as CP, landing at its base ). To be more correct, I discussed it briefly and then pointed out that it was a CAA approved helicopter base landing site and in any event aircraft operated under a PAOC are exempt the provisions of Rule 5. They ceased the discussion at that point and the unit carried on about its legal business.
P.S. I think you possibly missed my phrase "into a congested area". BTW, I have felt obliged to apply for quite a number of Rule 5 exemptions in my time. The CAA have never advised me I didn't need one and refused the payment.... I suppose one could be cynical and say "so what...."
Therefore, if the tips of your rotors stray over the 'boundary' of a congested area you must ensure you're above 1000ft of the highest obstacle within 600m.
Ask Keith T. to put it in writing, see what he says then. The only way you will find out for sure is if you get your day in court. Personally, I would rather not risk that option.
I had a written discussion with the legal branch of the CAA a few years back when a local PPL holder resident complained, quoting Rule 5 (actually the 1500 foot rule as it was then), about the police helicopter I flew as CP, landing at its base ). To be more correct, I discussed it briefly and then pointed out that it was a CAA approved helicopter base landing site and in any event aircraft operated under a PAOC are exempt the provisions of Rule 5. They ceased the discussion at that point and the unit carried on about its legal business.
P.S. I think you possibly missed my phrase "into a congested area". BTW, I have felt obliged to apply for quite a number of Rule 5 exemptions in my time. The CAA have never advised me I didn't need one and refused the payment.... I suppose one could be cynical and say "so what...."
Last edited by ShyTorque; 27th Apr 2008 at 21:43.
****e
On re-reading your post I did miss the 'into' bit - but latched onto the 600m lateral separation.
I too have applied for numerous exemptions which is why I was so taken aback with KTs response.
JJ
On re-reading your post I did miss the 'into' bit - but latched onto the 600m lateral separation.
I too have applied for numerous exemptions which is why I was so taken aback with KTs response.
JJ
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EESDL
Its not surprising realy as 3 examiners and at least 3 commercial pilots on this thread alone find it hard to get the same answer [not sure they have yet ]
steve
One wonders how long such experienced pilots have been carrying on in such a fashion?
steve
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The rules are quite difficult to piece together and could certainly be written more clearly. As usual, the UK rules only tell what you can't do, rather then explaining what you can.
I tend to play safe and go for an exemption if in doubt; I really don't want to have to spend a day in court fighting the CAA enforcement branch over it and in any event, the client owner picks up the tab for the exemption paperwork. He might grumble a little over the hundred quid or so but he now understands the requirement; I don't think he would pay my fine though if I didn't bother getting an exemption.
I tend to play safe and go for an exemption if in doubt; I really don't want to have to spend a day in court fighting the CAA enforcement branch over it and in any event, the client owner picks up the tab for the exemption paperwork. He might grumble a little over the hundred quid or so but he now understands the requirement; I don't think he would pay my fine though if I didn't bother getting an exemption.
Well said MD600. Your point is a valid one - if experienced guys struggle to wholly agree on the said rules then how can a lesser experienced chap fully understand?
Rule 5 was rewritten back in 2005 with the view to making it more simple to understand - has it had the desired effects? Perhaps an illustration to accompany the wording might be an idea - after all, 'a picture paints a 1000 words'.
One former CAA Ops Inspector once told me that with regards to congested areas and permissions, if you take an OS Landranger Map, place a 2p coin on your landing site and half or more the coin covers houses/parks/golf courses/industry/commercial etc then I would need to obtain an exemption for what was the 1500ft rule (i.e. now the 1000ft rule).
Rule 5 was rewritten back in 2005 with the view to making it more simple to understand - has it had the desired effects? Perhaps an illustration to accompany the wording might be an idea - after all, 'a picture paints a 1000 words'.
One former CAA Ops Inspector once told me that with regards to congested areas and permissions, if you take an OS Landranger Map, place a 2p coin on your landing site and half or more the coin covers houses/parks/golf courses/industry/commercial etc then I would need to obtain an exemption for what was the 1500ft rule (i.e. now the 1000ft rule).