Any scope for earnings with a PPL(H)?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Far from home, but not far from here
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From what I can gather from all the begging I do to get some repositioning work or in fact anything as a low hour CPL there are heaps of PPLs doing this sort of thing for no charge, so in fact they are earning about £400 an hour in free flying. No wonder low hour CPL's have to also fly for no payment as they try to build hours. Oh and I am sure the PPLs sling the odd dinner or case of wine to the Chief Pilot in return for their efforts. Meanwhile the operators charge the owners for the repositioning and make a healthy profit!!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
helimutt,
I got my instructor rating through the national system,I believe it was in the old CAP 53 it said 300 P1 to do the course, but the CAA allowed through concession to do the course at 200 P1 + the PPL (miminum possible to get instructor rating would be)
40 hours PPL (including 10 P1)
190 hour building (200 P1 total)
25 instructor course
----
255 minimum, most people were around 265-270 total.
altogether I spent 50 f*****g grand getting professional licences and ratings (and that was years ago), and I dont see why people now should get it on the cheap !
CF
At 200 hours you could do a pre entry flight test with an FIC and some written exams for FI course entry. If you didnt pass that I think you had to do more hours but seem to recall it was 250 hours before starting FI course under old system.
40 hours PPL (including 10 P1)
190 hour building (200 P1 total)
25 instructor course
----
255 minimum, most people were around 265-270 total.
altogether I spent 50 f*****g grand getting professional licences and ratings (and that was years ago), and I dont see why people now should get it on the cheap !
CF
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in a skip
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just found my old logbook. Commenced the AFI course with 201 hrs P1 and 49.6 hrs dual which included a 206 conversion. Completed AFI course at 210 P1, 71 dual. Upgraded to FI at 427.9 P1 and 71 dual. Wasn't informed of a pre-course exam until the first day of the course, but was told that no-one failed it
Three days after passing the AFI test I conducted my first instructional flight. To Camp Freddy's hours you also need to add the pre AFI course test flight, and the AFI qualifying flight. And I agree that it would seem very unfair to those that have gained commercial knowledge to have this requirement removed. In fact I do feel the old system was too easy; although I probably wouldn't be flying now if that hadn't been the case.
As regards licence holders not exercising their privileges, there does seem to be a lot of instances where that is the case. I think that the PPL is mis-sold. They're told "get a PPL and the sky's you're limit. Take off and land almost anywhere and get from A to B in a third of the time". It only dawns on them that it isn't as simple as that when they've completed most of the course and feel that they need to complete in order to not feel that they've wasted money.
In fact just a few days ago I met an ex student of mine that hadn't flown for many years, and I know of one chap who succesfully completed his AFI course and never flew again.
Three days after passing the AFI test I conducted my first instructional flight. To Camp Freddy's hours you also need to add the pre AFI course test flight, and the AFI qualifying flight. And I agree that it would seem very unfair to those that have gained commercial knowledge to have this requirement removed. In fact I do feel the old system was too easy; although I probably wouldn't be flying now if that hadn't been the case.As regards licence holders not exercising their privileges, there does seem to be a lot of instances where that is the case. I think that the PPL is mis-sold. They're told "get a PPL and the sky's you're limit. Take off and land almost anywhere and get from A to B in a third of the time". It only dawns on them that it isn't as simple as that when they've completed most of the course and feel that they need to complete in order to not feel that they've wasted money.
In fact just a few days ago I met an ex student of mine that hadn't flown for many years, and I know of one chap who succesfully completed his AFI course and never flew again.
n?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: London
Age: 49
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPL lapsings
Hi
I totally agree with VA above. I am a PPL, got my license a couple of years ago but still only have about 85 hours or so. The fact that I don't know the exact number shows that I haven't flown in a while...
I love flying when I do it, but as VA says, once you finish your training you kind of lose the structure and the progression. I am current, but only just. I seem to end up doing more hours dual because of big gaps between when I do fly.
I have seen on FW that people try and buddy up with other PPLs to push each other, and to have someone to fly with and keep an eye on each other.
Sorry to go off topic, but do you think that something like this would work?
I totally agree with VA above. I am a PPL, got my license a couple of years ago but still only have about 85 hours or so. The fact that I don't know the exact number shows that I haven't flown in a while...
I love flying when I do it, but as VA says, once you finish your training you kind of lose the structure and the progression. I am current, but only just. I seem to end up doing more hours dual because of big gaps between when I do fly.
I have seen on FW that people try and buddy up with other PPLs to push each other, and to have someone to fly with and keep an eye on each other.
Sorry to go off topic, but do you think that something like this would work?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London (UK)
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spot on
I have to say (as a PPL(H) holder) that vital_actions has it 100% spot on.
The only thing missing is that some PPL(H)s paid lots of money in advance to an operator who then never had any aircraft availability and then went bust
The only thing missing is that some PPL(H)s paid lots of money in advance to an operator who then never had any aircraft availability and then went bust
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of damp and drizzle
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPL(H)'s buddying up
I can say that buddying up with someone else definately helps. It's great to have someone else along to discuss things with, and you learn a lot by watching another pilot, even an inexperienced one. Certainly, since I started flying with another pilot, my flying has become more structured, although it's early days yet.
I will say that I'm probably not a good example, as I'm hour building towards commercial, so I have plenty of pressure and incentive to get out and fly as often as I can afford. My limitation on flying is finance, not time!
I will say that I'm probably not a good example, as I'm hour building towards commercial, so I have plenty of pressure and incentive to get out and fly as often as I can afford. My limitation on flying is finance, not time!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a PPL(H) and unfortunately do not fly enough. I thoroughly enjoy it when I do and wish I could every day. Unfortunately I can't, and I like to think that I know my limitations. I actually prefer to have an FI along with me whenever I do fly (although I am quite happy without one!). To my mind, the added bonus is that everytime I fly with an FI I learn something new. Also very fortunate as they are all good company (the one's I fly with anyway!) OK, have to pay for their time, but as we all know, they are cheap!!!!, so lunch is neither here or there for what I get in return.
You could go and work on a cattle station that has it's own helicopters for mustering etc. If you learned a bit on the ground they would probably put you in the air doing bore/fence/gate runs, then you could start mustering on the property you work for. That would be legal on a PPL H.
Cheers
Cheers
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would that be legal in Australia? Aside from the fact that there isn't a great call for cattle mustering in the UK (actually, none as far as I know!), it would not be legal for a PPL to be employed by a cattle station.
The work may well be private (i.e. not public transport and outside the requirement to operate an AOC) but any earnings would classified as remuneration on a PPL.
The only way round that would be to be employed as say, an accountant and do the occassional flight as flying is not the primary reason for your recruitment. Being employed as a pilot means you are working commercially.
Cheers
Whirls
The work may well be private (i.e. not public transport and outside the requirement to operate an AOC) but any earnings would classified as remuneration on a PPL.
The only way round that would be to be employed as say, an accountant and do the occassional flight as flying is not the primary reason for your recruitment. Being employed as a pilot means you are working commercially.
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Been there, done it !
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
anyone looking to `BUDDY UP` ? around west of London? Im a ppl fed up with flying on my own or trying to arrange with friends, so if your looking to fly with some one just let me know!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: All over
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only way round that would be to be employed as say, an accountant and do the occassional flight as flying is not the primary reason for your recruitment. Being employed as a pilot means you are working commercially.
I think you might be wrong here. If you are employed by the company to fly the company helicopter with company staff on board you are not operating commercially. You paid a wage and thats it. you are not flying Joe Public.
Roland Bardsley of Bardsley Construction did this with one of his employees for years
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In your scenario, you are flying for remuneration as a pilot. A private pilot cannot fly for remuneration. Therefore, a commercial licence is required - that is what I meany by flying commercially; I conceded that I didn't word it too well but I was trying to make the distinction between public transport flights.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Age: 71
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Whirlygig's view of the JAA/UK requirements is correct. The flying should be "incidental" to your employment. If not, you are being paid for flying and therefore need a CPL or ATPL.
Not sure if it is the same in other parts.
This does not mean that PPLs don't do what you say. Just that they haven't yet been caught.
With the CAA's track record for (non-) enforcement a PPL could proibably make a career of it unitl something went wrong
Not sure if it is the same in other parts.
This does not mean that PPLs don't do what you say. Just that they haven't yet been caught.
With the CAA's track record for (non-) enforcement a PPL could proibably make a career of it unitl something went wrong
Whirls,
You could be right you would be employed as a Stationhand probably not a pilot (not that the name of the job matters) and the Chopper is just one of your tools, Like a motorbike,horse,ute.
Cheers
ringer
You could be right you would be employed as a Stationhand probably not a pilot (not that the name of the job matters) and the Chopper is just one of your tools, Like a motorbike,horse,ute.
Cheers
ringer
Last edited by Heliringer; 19th Apr 2008 at 07:40.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Back of Bourke
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heliringer,
CAR 5.88, privileges of a PPL:
Last time I looked, mustering was classed as Aerial Work, not Private
It has to be Aerial Work to gain exemption for low level, etc, before that argument gets oxygen.
CAR 5.88, privileges of a PPL:
5.88 What does a private pilot (helicopter) licence authorise a person to do?
(1) A private pilot (helicopter) licence authorises the holder of the licence:
(a) to fly a helicopter as pilot in command, or as co-pilot, while the helicopter is engaged in a private operation; and
(b) to fly a helicopter as pilot in command while the helicopter is engaged in flying training operations for the purpose of increasing the holder’s flying skill.
(1) A private pilot (helicopter) licence authorises the holder of the licence:
(a) to fly a helicopter as pilot in command, or as co-pilot, while the helicopter is engaged in a private operation; and
(b) to fly a helicopter as pilot in command while the helicopter is engaged in flying training operations for the purpose of increasing the holder’s flying skill.
It has to be Aerial Work to gain exemption for low level, etc, before that argument gets oxygen.