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Air Ambulance in UK

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Air Ambulance in UK

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Old 11th Sep 2013, 23:42
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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The article says the diagnosis was a suspected fractured leg and I am commenting on the article as I have no other information. The point you can't understand is that I question is why there was a reason to use a helicopter.

I am bemused by the article stating that other resources were on the ground because I can't understand why the other resources didn't take the suspected fractured leg to the next door hospital. That doesn't make me a prat but just reflects the fact that this is a rumour network where we discuss the issues as presented to us. The media often get it wrong and this article may be total rubbish, but that is the fun of participating on this site.

I stand by my original opinion, namely that a suspected fractured leg next door to a major a and e department is normally properly managed by any front line vehicle and does not need a helicopter.
I understand from a local paramedic that there were 2 RRV's on scene and no ambulances were available to attend. The injury was reported as a dislocated fracture with suspected ischemia to the foot, therefore a crew request was made for Helimed to attend. Also Singleton hospital only has a GP led Minor Injuries Unit and the patient would not have been taken there anyway, either by land or air.

Last edited by Bladecrack; 11th Sep 2013 at 23:56.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 05:42
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I understand from a local paramedic that there were 2 RRV's on scene and no ambulances were available to attend. The injury was reported as a dislocated fracture with suspected ischemia to the foot, therefore a crew request was made for Helimed to attend. Also Singleton hospital only has a GP led Minor Injuries Unit and the patient would not have been taken there anyway, either by land or air.
So, two pages of comments over a helicopter being used to take a time critical patient to an appropriate A+E dept. Might well have saved his foot. Just a reminder to take the time to hear the whole story before jumping to conclusions, 'probably just a sprain'!

(Ex NHS Paramedic)
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 05:47
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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We do a lot of jobs in South Wales and we have never been asked to take a casualty (no matter how minor) to Singleton, it is always Morriston.

The only reason for using the Singleton LS is if the weather is too bad to get to Morriston and even then they transfer them to Morriston by ambulance.

What is getting worse now is the ambulance control/NHS dictating to the crews where the casualty should be taken rather than leaving it to the clinician in charge of the casualty (who has the best idea of the injuries) and the crew (who have the weather and fuel issues to consider) to make the best solution.

Our job is to rescue people from hazardous situations and get them to primary care - not worry about bed spaces, A&E waiting times or govt targets.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 08:06
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Crab, congratulations! Your last statement is the 100% correct way that crews should operate................... However..............
You have served (i know) with multiple military agencies and they are no different to the NHS. The best way is not always the done thing. Until recently, all paramedics plus the helimed crews up here were operating to a crazy system. They COULD NOT pass the nearest a&e department with a patient, even though they knew 100% that, after an assessment, the patient would be moved (eg, a burns unit). This affected long term outcomes.
Cut to this year, the trauma pathway is in place. Not perfect, but a million times better. A trauma cell in the control room looks at the bigger jobs and gives instructions to the crews on hospital choice. They are not on the spot, but experience of how road crews operate (and human nature) allows me to fully support this concept........ Even if spare beds and waiting times are factored in.
A crew faced with major trauma will naturally want to go to the nearest hospital to 'get rid' of the problem, or will want to get off on time, or any of a number of other reasons. More importantly, we find that when on scene, they listen to us if a job is not as bad (or is worse) than they think. They are flexible.
I understand that after your years of experience, you dont like being taught how to suck eggs, but the system is aimed at the lowest common denominator. We are finding it to be a huge step forward.

Last edited by jayteeto; 12th Sep 2013 at 08:08.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 08:24
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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TC - thanks for the advice, I'll give due credit where it is deserved. I'm sure homonculus knows his stuff in the medical world, but that's not really the issue here now, is it?

Jayteeto - the trauma network will throw the cat among the pigeons in the air ambulance world. Personally, I suspect it very strongly supports the doctor paramedic model over paramedic/paramedic - absolutely not dissing the role of the paramedic, but having the doctor on board means that some procedures can occur at the scene which will improve patient outcomes, especially bearing in mind the longer transits that will inevitably be involved.

In the operation that I know of, the doctors on the aircraft have a direct input on where patients are best served. If that means flying straight past the local Major Trauma Centre, so be it. Of course the A&E heads squawk but it had one positive effect: they put in a helipad with direct access to the A&E rather than justifying why a road transit from the local golf course was 'OK'.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 12:33
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Bearing in mind the distribution in the UK of the Major Trauma Centres (only 26 of them), I'm sure you'd have to have evidence your decision making pretty well to justify bypassing one for one further away. I know of at least one incidence where this happened due to the helipad at the nearest MTC being occupied and the flight time to the next nearest was estimated to be shorter than the estimated time for the helipad to clear but I've not heard of it being done for specialist clinical reasons yet.

It's also worth remembering that some of the air ambulance doctors also have senior roles in the MTCs too so the 'us and them' isn't that clear cut.
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Old 12th Sep 2013, 15:20
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Just as in the past, this will not work 100% of the time. What is important is that it is an improvement and is flexible. If improvements can be made, they will. The system works for para/para or para/doc. The statisticians tell us that long term outcomes will improve, although short terms for some will not. These people were probably very poorly anyway. If that person is a family member, that could sound extremely harsh, but if YOU were in charge, what path would you take? Do you have a bunch of people live a week or a smaller amount make a full recovery? Way above my pay grade.
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Old 13th Sep 2013, 07:29
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Jayteeto - I see why the trauma pathway might work for AA but the NHS seem to have tried to impose it on us without any consultation or the understanding that they are not our tasking authority.

We seem to be having quite a few conflicts between what is operationally sensible for SAR (keeping in our own operating area for one) and what ambulance control want done with the casualty.

Where we can oblige without compromising our availability we probably will but I think there is some work going on between the ARCCK and NHS at the moment to clarify our position.
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Old 13th Sep 2013, 08:37
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed, if they DEMAND helicopter availability, there is one SIMPLE solution.............

BUY SOME HELICOPTERS!!!!!!!
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Old 13th Sep 2013, 13:11
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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If they got rid of a few tiers of management, they could probably afford them
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Old 13th Sep 2013, 13:35
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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And more doctors and nurses. Pigs (porcine ones not Plods) might fly.
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Old 30th Oct 2013, 12:06
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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New Midlands Air Ambulance helicopter to allow night rescues


October 30, 2013 10:59

Midlands Air Ambulance has bought its first helicopter, giving it the ability to fly at night for the first time.

Bosses at the charity have bought the new £4.5m EC135T2e helicopter, which will be based at RAF Cosford.

It will be fully equipped for night flying and will replace three EC135 helicopters that are currently leased to the charity.

Because of its new capabilities, the charity is exploring the viability of flying at night and plans to launch a public appeal in the new year to help raise the extra funds necessary.
New Midlands Air Ambulance helicopter to allow night rescues « Shropshire Star
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 16:18
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting twist on this thread.

Fraudsters threaten donations for county's air ambulance - Northamptonshire Telegraph
.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 16:37
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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... and will replace three EC135 helicopters that are currently leased to the charity.
???

The article quoted ( now ) says :

... and will replace an EC135 helicopter that is currently leased to the charity.
.... Panic over !

Nail
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Old 5th Dec 2013, 16:20
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Devil

Who signed for a 429 then? Someone has but I don't know who. Machine sounds great but they're in for a shock when they experience the quality and experience (lack) of who'll be operating it.......
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 14:38
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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The Association of Air Ambulances sets itself up as the 'go to' organisation for UK air ambulances.

This relatively small but important charity handling the affairs of nearly all the high value air ambulance charities [those who collect millions in charity funds every year] and have made a great thing out of handing out buckets of government money from the Libor funds to fellow air ambulances [and taking a little off the top [or bottom] for itself does not think that the sudden departure of the Chair and then the CEO in recent days are important?

There was no public announcement on the resignation of the Chair Hanna Sebright in early January and no intention to issue a public message on the sudden departure of Clive Dickin CEO this week. In the case of the former departure I guess that was Clive Dickin's decision. The rest of the board decided on 'no release' this week.

In each case messages were quietly sent to the AAA membership on both items and the one on Clive departing this week happened to come my way.

Apparently the vacancies will be filled at the AGM at the end of March.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 17:55
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hedski View Post
Who signed for a 429 then? Someone has but I don't know who. Machine sounds great but they're in for a shock when they experience the quality and experience (lack) of who'll be operating it.......
Since 2014/15, Wiltshire Air Ambulance Charity is the sole operator of Bell 429 for HEMS. The a/c are supplied and supported / flown by Heli Charter guys.

I was at Helitech 2014 in Amsterdam, when the a/c was handed over during the show.

AFAIK, its running fine for the charity...

Cheers
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 13:33
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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So why have these two crucial people - left?
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Old 12th Mar 2018, 23:34
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post
Since 2014/15, Wiltshire Air Ambulance Charity is the sole operator of Bell 429 for HEMS. The a/c are supplied and supported / flown by Heli Charter guys.

I was at Helitech 2014 in Amsterdam, when the a/c was handed over during the show.

AFAIK, its running fine for the charity...

Cheers
That’ll explain why the charity are now looking to go it alone, even their recent advert for pilots points to this....
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 15:13
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thomas coupling View Post
So why have these two crucial people - left?
Heli Charter is not the company it was. They ceased being a Bell CSF 14 months ago, their MD/owner sadly died in October 2017, their Bell IR status went to new company HelixAv just prior to HeliUKExpo 2017 along with some of the same people from HC, etc etc

So, given the uncertainty of the future of HC, it's no surprise that Wiltshire AA are looking for a more long term stable situation with their 429 I would expect.
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