Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Air Ambulance in UK

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Air Ambulance in UK

Reply

Old 12th Sep 2013, 06:42
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 46
Posts: 26
I understand from a local paramedic that there were 2 RRV's on scene and no ambulances were available to attend. The injury was reported as a dislocated fracture with suspected ischemia to the foot, therefore a crew request was made for Helimed to attend. Also Singleton hospital only has a GP led Minor Injuries Unit and the patient would not have been taken there anyway, either by land or air.
So, two pages of comments over a helicopter being used to take a time critical patient to an appropriate A+E dept. Might well have saved his foot. Just a reminder to take the time to hear the whole story before jumping to conclusions, 'probably just a sprain'!

(Ex NHS Paramedic)
telster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Sep 2013, 06:47
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,985
We do a lot of jobs in South Wales and we have never been asked to take a casualty (no matter how minor) to Singleton, it is always Morriston.

The only reason for using the Singleton LS is if the weather is too bad to get to Morriston and even then they transfer them to Morriston by ambulance.

What is getting worse now is the ambulance control/NHS dictating to the crews where the casualty should be taken rather than leaving it to the clinician in charge of the casualty (who has the best idea of the injuries) and the crew (who have the weather and fuel issues to consider) to make the best solution.

Our job is to rescue people from hazardous situations and get them to primary care - not worry about bed spaces, A&E waiting times or govt targets.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Sep 2013, 09:06
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 55
Posts: 1,929
Crab, congratulations! Your last statement is the 100% correct way that crews should operate................... However..............
You have served (i know) with multiple military agencies and they are no different to the NHS. The best way is not always the done thing. Until recently, all paramedics plus the helimed crews up here were operating to a crazy system. They COULD NOT pass the nearest a&e department with a patient, even though they knew 100% that, after an assessment, the patient would be moved (eg, a burns unit). This affected long term outcomes.
Cut to this year, the trauma pathway is in place. Not perfect, but a million times better. A trauma cell in the control room looks at the bigger jobs and gives instructions to the crews on hospital choice. They are not on the spot, but experience of how road crews operate (and human nature) allows me to fully support this concept........ Even if spare beds and waiting times are factored in.
A crew faced with major trauma will naturally want to go to the nearest hospital to 'get rid' of the problem, or will want to get off on time, or any of a number of other reasons. More importantly, we find that when on scene, they listen to us if a job is not as bad (or is worse) than they think. They are flexible.
I understand that after your years of experience, you dont like being taught how to suck eggs, but the system is aimed at the lowest common denominator. We are finding it to be a huge step forward.

Last edited by jayteeto; 12th Sep 2013 at 09:08.
jayteeto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Sep 2013, 09:24
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South of UK
Posts: 417
TC - thanks for the advice, I'll give due credit where it is deserved. I'm sure homonculus knows his stuff in the medical world, but that's not really the issue here now, is it?

Jayteeto - the trauma network will throw the cat among the pigeons in the air ambulance world. Personally, I suspect it very strongly supports the doctor paramedic model over paramedic/paramedic - absolutely not dissing the role of the paramedic, but having the doctor on board means that some procedures can occur at the scene which will improve patient outcomes, especially bearing in mind the longer transits that will inevitably be involved.

In the operation that I know of, the doctors on the aircraft have a direct input on where patients are best served. If that means flying straight past the local Major Trauma Centre, so be it. Of course the A&E heads squawk but it had one positive effect: they put in a helipad with direct access to the A&E rather than justifying why a road transit from the local golf course was 'OK'.
206 jock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Sep 2013, 13:33
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 17
Bearing in mind the distribution in the UK of the Major Trauma Centres (only 26 of them), I'm sure you'd have to have evidence your decision making pretty well to justify bypassing one for one further away. I know of at least one incidence where this happened due to the helipad at the nearest MTC being occupied and the flight time to the next nearest was estimated to be shorter than the estimated time for the helipad to clear but I've not heard of it being done for specialist clinical reasons yet.

It's also worth remembering that some of the air ambulance doctors also have senior roles in the MTCs too so the 'us and them' isn't that clear cut.
OneOffDave is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Sep 2013, 16:20
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 55
Posts: 1,929
Just as in the past, this will not work 100% of the time. What is important is that it is an improvement and is flexible. If improvements can be made, they will. The system works for para/para or para/doc. The statisticians tell us that long term outcomes will improve, although short terms for some will not. These people were probably very poorly anyway. If that person is a family member, that could sound extremely harsh, but if YOU were in charge, what path would you take? Do you have a bunch of people live a week or a smaller amount make a full recovery? Way above my pay grade.
jayteeto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Sep 2013, 08:29
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,985
Jayteeto - I see why the trauma pathway might work for AA but the NHS seem to have tried to impose it on us without any consultation or the understanding that they are not our tasking authority.

We seem to be having quite a few conflicts between what is operationally sensible for SAR (keeping in our own operating area for one) and what ambulance control want done with the casualty.

Where we can oblige without compromising our availability we probably will but I think there is some work going on between the ARCCK and NHS at the moment to clarify our position.
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Sep 2013, 09:37
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 55
Posts: 1,929
Agreed, if they DEMAND helicopter availability, there is one SIMPLE solution.............

BUY SOME HELICOPTERS!!!!!!!
jayteeto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Sep 2013, 14:11
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: EGDC
Posts: 6,985
If they got rid of a few tiers of management, they could probably afford them
crab@SAAvn.co.uk is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Sep 2013, 14:35
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,298
And more doctors and nurses. Pigs (porcine ones not Plods) might fly.
DX Wombat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 30th Oct 2013, 13:06
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Milano, Italia
Posts: 2,425

New Midlands Air Ambulance helicopter to allow night rescues


October 30, 2013 10:59

Midlands Air Ambulance has bought its first helicopter, giving it the ability to fly at night for the first time.

Bosses at the charity have bought the new £4.5m EC135T2e helicopter, which will be based at RAF Cosford.

It will be fully equipped for night flying and will replace three EC135 helicopters that are currently leased to the charity.

Because of its new capabilities, the charity is exploring the viability of flying at night and plans to launch a public appeal in the new year to help raise the extra funds necessary.
New Midlands Air Ambulance helicopter to allow night rescues « Shropshire Star
Savoia is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2013, 17:18
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 484
Interesting twist on this thread.

Fraudsters threaten donations for county's air ambulance - Northamptonshire Telegraph
.
helihub is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 4th Dec 2013, 17:37
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Here there and everywhere !
Posts: 89
... and will replace three EC135 helicopters that are currently leased to the charity.
???

The article quoted ( now ) says :

... and will replace an EC135 helicopter that is currently leased to the charity.
.... Panic over !

Nail
Nail The Dream is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 5th Dec 2013, 17:20
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 349
Devil

Who signed for a 429 then? Someone has but I don't know who. Machine sounds great but they're in for a shock when they experience the quality and experience (lack) of who'll be operating it.......
Hedski is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th Mar 2018, 15:38
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Waltham Abbey, Essex, UK
Age: 72
Posts: 1,027
The Association of Air Ambulances sets itself up as the 'go to' organisation for UK air ambulances.

This relatively small but important charity handling the affairs of nearly all the high value air ambulance charities [those who collect millions in charity funds every year] and have made a great thing out of handing out buckets of government money from the Libor funds to fellow air ambulances [and taking a little off the top [or bottom] for itself does not think that the sudden departure of the Chair and then the CEO in recent days are important?

There was no public announcement on the resignation of the Chair Hanna Sebright in early January and no intention to issue a public message on the sudden departure of Clive Dickin CEO this week. In the case of the former departure I guess that was Clive Dickin's decision. The rest of the board decided on 'no release' this week.

In each case messages were quietly sent to the AAA membership on both items and the one on Clive departing this week happened to come my way.

Apparently the vacancies will be filled at the AGM at the end of March.
PANews is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 8th Mar 2018, 18:55
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 1,877
Originally Posted by Hedski View Post
Who signed for a 429 then? Someone has but I don't know who. Machine sounds great but they're in for a shock when they experience the quality and experience (lack) of who'll be operating it.......
Since 2014/15, Wiltshire Air Ambulance Charity is the sole operator of Bell 429 for HEMS. The a/c are supplied and supported / flown by Heli Charter guys.

I was at Helitech 2014 in Amsterdam, when the a/c was handed over during the show.

AFAIK, its running fine for the charity...

Cheers
chopper2004 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 14:33
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,651
So why have these two crucial people - left?
Thomas coupling is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 00:34
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post
Since 2014/15, Wiltshire Air Ambulance Charity is the sole operator of Bell 429 for HEMS. The a/c are supplied and supported / flown by Heli Charter guys.

I was at Helitech 2014 in Amsterdam, when the a/c was handed over during the show.

AFAIK, its running fine for the charity...

Cheers
That’ll explain why the charity are now looking to go it alone, even their recent advert for pilots points to this....
Hedski is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 14th Mar 2018, 16:13
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Thomas coupling View Post
So why have these two crucial people - left?
Heli Charter is not the company it was. They ceased being a Bell CSF 14 months ago, their MD/owner sadly died in October 2017, their Bell IR status went to new company HelixAv just prior to HeliUKExpo 2017 along with some of the same people from HC, etc etc

So, given the uncertainty of the future of HC, it's no surprise that Wiltshire AA are looking for a more long term stable situation with their 429 I would expect.
helihub is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 20th Mar 2018, 19:44
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 1,206
This appears to have come back to bite them... or maybe they'll dodge it (again)

This link in Third Sector News refers to a Sunday Times article, which I didn't get to see. It would appear that Mr Williamson is back in the limelight after the Charity Commission acknowledged failings in its previous investigation. I think it refers to a Strictly Come Dancing-themed event that lost the charity over £100,000 - apparently, nearly a year's pay for the CEO.

I also note that in their response, the charity spokesperson referred to "over 30,000 missions" - are they recording airtests, training flights and early cancellations as 'missions', or do they use the same criteria as other UK Air Ambulance operations?
Thud_and_Blunder is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service