North East UK Police Helicopter might be closed
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I'm sure their is the odd occasion when a military helicopter would have land and the pilot have to do soldier sh!t. But likewise I'm sure there are odd occasions when a police helicopter would have to land and the observers do policing sh!t.
Exactly the same scenario as far as I am concerned! If it is good enough to civilianise the observers to get more coppers on the street why not civilianise the army pilots to get more soldiers on the ground.
Or is it that their skills and experiences gained at having once been at the sharp end actually count for something?
Exactly the same scenario as far as I am concerned! If it is good enough to civilianise the observers to get more coppers on the street why not civilianise the army pilots to get more soldiers on the ground.
Or is it that their skills and experiences gained at having once been at the sharp end actually count for something?
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To routinely use a pilot as a soldier would not be the best way to use either the man or the machine!
Are you proposing that a man who has needed very expensive and specialist training should be given the same role as a soldier? Is the man actually more use on the ground or in the air? A helicopter should be parked up while a firefight takes place? That is something the A Team used to do but no-one ever actually got shot on that kids' programme.
A helicopter on the ground is an easy, vulnerable and valuable target and will attract a lot of enemy attention. What happens if the pilot takes a round, can't fly the aircraft but the pax need pulling out? The whole patrol and the aircraft could be lost. Worse still, it could fall into enemy hands.
It just doesn't happen like that, for good reason.
Are you proposing that a man who has needed very expensive and specialist training should be given the same role as a soldier? Is the man actually more use on the ground or in the air? A helicopter should be parked up while a firefight takes place? That is something the A Team used to do but no-one ever actually got shot on that kids' programme.
A helicopter on the ground is an easy, vulnerable and valuable target and will attract a lot of enemy attention. What happens if the pilot takes a round, can't fly the aircraft but the pax need pulling out? The whole patrol and the aircraft could be lost. Worse still, it could fall into enemy hands.
It just doesn't happen like that, for good reason.
Tigerfish
AERODYNAMIK. I find it hard to believe that you do not understand the difference between a Police Officer and a civilian in this operational " On the Ground " scenario! Is all about one having a power of arrest and the other not! The Police officer can arrest anyone who he suspects of committing a criminal offence. The civilian cannot,- its as simple as that.
The question of whether it is wise to risk the A/C by committing to a landing is an entirely different matter, and will depend entirely on the circumstances obtaining at the time. It should not happen often, - but there are circumstances where it is necessary, and these will usually require the full powers and skill of a fully sworn police officer.
Tigerfish!
The question of whether it is wise to risk the A/C by committing to a landing is an entirely different matter, and will depend entirely on the circumstances obtaining at the time. It should not happen often, - but there are circumstances where it is necessary, and these will usually require the full powers and skill of a fully sworn police officer.
Tigerfish!
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The Modern Police
We are all missing something,
The reason police officers are now obsolete is because the current government have re-invented the police. They are called PCSOs, has nobody been watching the news ? They even have their own TV show called "Life on the beat"
Bit of a stuttering start, but once they have all the powers of a constable they can take over the police entirely. They will have no long term impact on police pension budgets and can be sacked much easier. They take less training as they are clearly better than constables. They will be able to specialise into most of the current police specialisms as they take over. Oh and the most important part , THEY ARE CHEAPER !
Leaving the good old fashioned useless obsolete police officer to drive a panda for thirty years, being assaulted on average twice a year, not getting a pay rise, and dealing with the full wrath of todays underclass $h*te we see in the news every day. What a job they have, they dont realise how lucky they are to be cops.
Back to the aviation slant now the rant is done, the current slaver with the neasu consortium has been resolved as of today. The ec135s are to be sold and the consortium will look to recruit civilian observers to crew the new aircraft. They intend buying about six in total and locating them at key FOBs in the consortium area, thereby providing "seamless" air support cover.
Sorry for using the management speak "seamless" word, I wanted to sound dynamic and not obsolete but I cuddent.
The role equipment will be strapped to the observers calf, a fold down rumble seat will be fitted for when the unit has attachments , and also the carriage of firearms officers & dog handlers. Due to the low risk / high safety of the aircraft, observers are to be allowed to wear shorts in the summer. It also has "get me home" GPS/TFR should it go inadvertent IMC etc.
Out with the old and in with the new
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=766_1195374125
Personally I applaud modernisation & improvements , but lets be right folks the current government is slashing lumps out of more than the police.
Its been a pleasure !
Good Night a God Bless Y
u all
The reason police officers are now obsolete is because the current government have re-invented the police. They are called PCSOs, has nobody been watching the news ? They even have their own TV show called "Life on the beat"
Bit of a stuttering start, but once they have all the powers of a constable they can take over the police entirely. They will have no long term impact on police pension budgets and can be sacked much easier. They take less training as they are clearly better than constables. They will be able to specialise into most of the current police specialisms as they take over. Oh and the most important part , THEY ARE CHEAPER !
Leaving the good old fashioned useless obsolete police officer to drive a panda for thirty years, being assaulted on average twice a year, not getting a pay rise, and dealing with the full wrath of todays underclass $h*te we see in the news every day. What a job they have, they dont realise how lucky they are to be cops.
Back to the aviation slant now the rant is done, the current slaver with the neasu consortium has been resolved as of today. The ec135s are to be sold and the consortium will look to recruit civilian observers to crew the new aircraft. They intend buying about six in total and locating them at key FOBs in the consortium area, thereby providing "seamless" air support cover.
Sorry for using the management speak "seamless" word, I wanted to sound dynamic and not obsolete but I cuddent.
The role equipment will be strapped to the observers calf, a fold down rumble seat will be fitted for when the unit has attachments , and also the carriage of firearms officers & dog handlers. Due to the low risk / high safety of the aircraft, observers are to be allowed to wear shorts in the summer. It also has "get me home" GPS/TFR should it go inadvertent IMC etc.
Out with the old and in with the new
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=766_1195374125
Personally I applaud modernisation & improvements , but lets be right folks the current government is slashing lumps out of more than the police.
Its been a pleasure !
Good Night a God Bless Y
u all
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: North East UK Police Helicopter might be closed Reply to Thread
And this lot could be above you Policing the skies as Observers after accidently shooting a mate:
Gun injuries soar as police 'experts' blast themselves and colleagues by mistake
The number of armed police officers accidentally shooting themselves – and other colleagues – has soared in the past five years. Now, nearly half of all injuries caused by police shootings are the result of officers blasting themselves or a colleague, often during bungled training and demonstrations. Since 2003, there have been seven incidents in which armed police injured themselves or a fellow officer due to the careless handling of a gun, compared to just four in the previous 12 years.
www.dailymail.co.uk/pa...ge_id=1770
Gun injuries soar as police 'experts' blast themselves and colleagues by mistake
The number of armed police officers accidentally shooting themselves – and other colleagues – has soared in the past five years. Now, nearly half of all injuries caused by police shootings are the result of officers blasting themselves or a colleague, often during bungled training and demonstrations. Since 2003, there have been seven incidents in which armed police injured themselves or a fellow officer due to the careless handling of a gun, compared to just four in the previous 12 years.
www.dailymail.co.uk/pa...ge_id=1770
Daily Mail AttacK!
Bubbler, I take it you are yet another useless daily Mail reporter.
Before you print such one sided and anti police "News", - perhaps you might just check on the rate of firearms deployments over the same period!
Only a very few years ago, such deployments were few and far between. Today they tend to be almost hourly. It is therefor not so surprising, -
( Although admittedly worrying) that such accidents do occur. I am aware that the training regime is being examined.
The Police Service has enough on its plate without rubbish newspapers like the daily mail mounting almost constant attacks. Its funny how mail reporters always know how to do it better! I doubt if any of them have ever placed their selves in harms way, & certainly do not understand that sort of pressure!
Tigerfish!
Before you print such one sided and anti police "News", - perhaps you might just check on the rate of firearms deployments over the same period!
Only a very few years ago, such deployments were few and far between. Today they tend to be almost hourly. It is therefor not so surprising, -
( Although admittedly worrying) that such accidents do occur. I am aware that the training regime is being examined.
The Police Service has enough on its plate without rubbish newspapers like the daily mail mounting almost constant attacks. Its funny how mail reporters always know how to do it better! I doubt if any of them have ever placed their selves in harms way, & certainly do not understand that sort of pressure!
Tigerfish!
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bubbler,
Not that it is relevant to this thread, but I would suggest that only 7 incidents over that period is a remarkably good record, given the amount of firearms work done by UK police these days. There isn't such a thing as risk-free anything, as any pilot shoudl tell you.
Not that it is relevant to this thread, but I would suggest that only 7 incidents over that period is a remarkably good record, given the amount of firearms work done by UK police these days. There isn't such a thing as risk-free anything, as any pilot shoudl tell you.
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My guess is yes, it will close. Just because my cynical experience of this type of thing is that politicians / beancounters make a decision in private, then go about creating the circumstances to justify it.
Remember, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not all out to get you...
Max
PS Traffic cop friend of mine is not looking forward to the extended car pursuits without support from overhead...
Remember, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not all out to get you...
Max
PS Traffic cop friend of mine is not looking forward to the extended car pursuits without support from overhead...
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If the unit does close, I hope someone begins taking stats on the numbers of vehicle pursuits before and after and the relative outcomes of them.
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money well spent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7299935.stm
when I see stories like this, it makes me want to run at a brick wall head first and hope I wake up in the real world..!!
however... looks like the 330 million per year will continue to be spent....(wasted)
Now i dont know what the numbers are, but im pretty sure that this money would cover the costs of all the uk ASUs, provide new a/c, and have some left over for R&D and a bit of change for some shiny bits of kit..!!
North East ASU, let the bean counters blame anything except lack of money..!! theres plenty being spent, just not in the right place.
Surely if we just keep catching the crims and banging 'em away then the problem will sort itself out..??
when I see stories like this, it makes me want to run at a brick wall head first and hope I wake up in the real world..!!
however... looks like the 330 million per year will continue to be spent....(wasted)
Now i dont know what the numbers are, but im pretty sure that this money would cover the costs of all the uk ASUs, provide new a/c, and have some left over for R&D and a bit of change for some shiny bits of kit..!!
North East ASU, let the bean counters blame anything except lack of money..!! theres plenty being spent, just not in the right place.
Surely if we just keep catching the crims and banging 'em away then the problem will sort itself out..??
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Re the BBC article above, I can say I have seen these programs in use. They are really good.
In all the addicts Ive ever met I can only think of one or two its worked for, most of them prefer the free meth handout then off to screw a house/shoplift to fund there next bag of gear.
These strategies are all well and good, but £33o million is ok as long as its not to the detriment of the "other" services taking drug crime on head first.
Pink & Fluffy has its place, but so does knocking heads together and jailing folk.
Policing is about layers, bigger problems you apply more layers. Tough hard pressed areas need more layers, conversely middle england doesnt see cops as statistically nothing happens, hence no police.
All aspects of policing are relevant to a community, work in schools, covert policing, community based , traffic enforcement they all are layers.The NE asu is part of that layering system, and based about its ongoing cost it is being cut.
Police budgets are allegedly smalller , the NE asu issue will be about cost, it cannot be anything else.
Why on earth would you decrease/divide/reduce/ a service which can provide 24 hour cover to the north east 365 days per year, I argue thats efficiency !! not one helicopter on 18 hours a day full of PCSOs, if anyone can offer an argument based around performance given the two options Im all ears to hear it
Readers will recall the huge axe wielded in the Armed Forces in the 80s by the tory government. All disgused as leaner/better equipped/better trained/flexible all the usual crap they talk, look at the pressures now on our forces.
Its now the turn of the UK police to be leaner/better equipped/better trained & flexible
Merry but NOT down
In all the addicts Ive ever met I can only think of one or two its worked for, most of them prefer the free meth handout then off to screw a house/shoplift to fund there next bag of gear.
These strategies are all well and good, but £33o million is ok as long as its not to the detriment of the "other" services taking drug crime on head first.
Pink & Fluffy has its place, but so does knocking heads together and jailing folk.
Policing is about layers, bigger problems you apply more layers. Tough hard pressed areas need more layers, conversely middle england doesnt see cops as statistically nothing happens, hence no police.
All aspects of policing are relevant to a community, work in schools, covert policing, community based , traffic enforcement they all are layers.The NE asu is part of that layering system, and based about its ongoing cost it is being cut.
Police budgets are allegedly smalller , the NE asu issue will be about cost, it cannot be anything else.
Why on earth would you decrease/divide/reduce/ a service which can provide 24 hour cover to the north east 365 days per year, I argue thats efficiency !! not one helicopter on 18 hours a day full of PCSOs, if anyone can offer an argument based around performance given the two options Im all ears to hear it
Readers will recall the huge axe wielded in the Armed Forces in the 80s by the tory government. All disgused as leaner/better equipped/better trained/flexible all the usual crap they talk, look at the pressures now on our forces.
Its now the turn of the UK police to be leaner/better equipped/better trained & flexible
Merry but NOT down
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So any more news on the continuing saga of North East Police Aviation. Last rumour I heard it was going down to 1 aircraft with reduced hours based in the Durham area?
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Its going, They gave 1 years notice a few days ago so that helicopter from Teesside airport(sorry durham tees valley) will most probably be moved upto newcastle airport?
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Its going, They gave 1 years notice a few days ago so that helicopter from Teesside airport(sorry durham tees valley) will most probably be moved upto newcastle airport?
The Scallies will be thrilled.....
Err.. I thought the one at Newcastle was the one that didn't meet the new regs.....highest time CDS machine etc etc, nearly as smelly as G-PASF before it went the journey...
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"I stand corrected" said the man in the orthopeadic shoes.....Just re-read the thread.
So why are we down here in the sarf of the area losing the machine to go up to Newcastle?
Or will it be based mid way in Durham somehwere and be rotors-turning 24/7 with hot refuelling?
Max
So why are we down here in the sarf of the area losing the machine to go up to Newcastle?
Or will it be based mid way in Durham somehwere and be rotors-turning 24/7 with hot refuelling?
Max
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So take it the CSO`s that they have just employed will be looking for another job. Last in - first out. Cant see them losing a helicopter and sacking all the cops whilst employing civvies. Think of the uproar.