SA Helicopter

Hey guys,

What do think about the new Flight Simulator X game from Microsoft? I've given it a shot and found it to be excellent.

Although it's more for the fixed wing crowd, there are some nice new missions with heli's. My favourite is the oil platform sortie....

Annyway, tell us what you think!?

Cheers,
SA Helicopter

jimma

I've been tempted to give it a go for a month or so, but haven't made the switch from 2004 yet. I have used the demo though, and agree with SA that, as far as I can tell so far, it is good.

Would love to hear peoples opinions...

I think I will wait and see what "Santa" brings this year, I may be making the switch quite soon!

madman1145

How is the ADF needle? Does it lead / lack as it should do like in reality ??
I understand the previous versions didn't, witch is annoying if you wanna train NDB approaches and in reality they do ..

- madman

nrh

Still have FS2004 I'm afraid - Microsoft do precious little for helicopters and the new release seems no different...third party developers have accomplished some remarkable things though, when they catch up with FS-X then who knows what will be possible?...

Merry Christmas everyone!

i4iq

The graphics are prettier but you need a much more powerful graphics card to run them. Still good for practicing instrument approaches - although I haven't tried an NDB approach, so I can't comment on the lead/lag...

Still no DP's or STAR's, which is a bit disappointing. You can add your own way points to simulate them but it would have been nice if they'd included them...

Heliringer

Before i buy it is it a worth while tool for someone who has no Heli IFR experience. Would I learn anything about IFR flying this sim? It looks good and in Australia we at the bottom end have no IFR skills whatsoever, will this help if you're motivated?
Cheers sick of looking up stocks arse's
RINGER

tt801

I've just purchased FS2004 to help with my Instrument training and wondered what controller/Joystick people are using. The saitek X52 has been recommended by a couple of people but I would really appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance

madman1145

Don't bother about what controls to use, joystick, keyboard etc. when it concern MS Flight Sim and the goal is to learn IFR ..

Use the MS Flight Sim for procedure training (that's why I asked about lead/lag on ADF/NDB). Don't expect the way to fly the MS Flight Sim is the same as flying IRL - my tiny miny little experience says IT's NOT !! Real aircraft and especially IMC environment (that is can't see **** anywhere around you) and not to forget Human Factors with no "P-for-Pause-button" is a whole new world, being pretty much blind. MS Flight Sim can not simulate that ..

So:
MS Flight Sim = Procedure Trainer
MS Flight Sim ≠ How to fly IFR, unless you are able to make a complete setup with full-motion cockpit, screens all around you, live ATC etc. etc. ..

- madman

tt801

Thanks for the reply and advice Madman. I'm about half way through my Intstrument training and bought FS2004 for the reasons you mentioned, ie procedure training, and also to practice the different types of entry to a hold and the actual hold.

I suppose I may aswell just buy a cheap joystick, does that make sense??

Thanks

i4iq

You dont need to have the whole setup to use X for practicing IFR but I think it helps. The goal is definitely to learn the procedures and fly published approaches - exactly as you would in a "real" sim or the instrument ship you'll be taking a check-ride in.

If you do buy the X52 (and the CHC Pedals), mount the throttle on its side and use it as you would the collective. Another tip is to take out the spring on the joystick that centres the joystick after each movement - it'll feel more "realistic".

Try to use a relatively sensitive setup, use the approaches you'll be flying for real, develop a very good scan and you may find flying the real thing easier than the sim.

VeeAny

Madman

I think you're right it is a fair procedural trainer, i occasionally use it just to familiarise myself if i am expecting to fly a complex procedure in the next few days. It does help, particularly with a procedure you've never flown before. I would also agree that joystick etc is a waste of time for this purpose, fly it on the autopilot just for the 'experience' of flying the procedure, it won't teach you anything about how the aircraft will feel in real IMC under IFR.

I4 if you have the luxury of somethine that equates to helicopter controls and not an MS joystick then, that may be useful, but i've never tried it.

It would be nice if they've Dipped the ADF needle in the new version.

V.

i4iq

V

I dont have anything sufficiently like the real thing but I hear that the FlightLink setup is worth a look. It's more a case of getting used to the workload etc. Moot point though.

tt801

Thanks for the advice everyone, I think I'll go with a simple joystick setup so I can concentrate on practising the scan, holds and entry to holds and not get to caught up in flying the sim when I should be studying for my checkride!!!

Thanks again

madman1145

When I did my JAA IR(H), the 10 hours sim was done on a Piper PA28 simulator. Yes, Single prop Fixed Wing - because it was procedure training of the instruments, not flying. And on autopilot with headingbug too - so if the FTO doesn't bother, why should the student ??
Actually the FTO recommended not to train NDB approaches on MS Flight Sim, because people got used to it doesn't have lead/lag and they have great problems when they go to the PA28 Sim or B206L helicopter. And it's usually the NDB approaches that students strugles the most with ..

I have so far never been even a bit close of getting just a bit airsick flying the MS Flight Sim. Been close enough once or twice during IR training in real IMC, or total blackness and googles over the swamp of Florida with zero reference anywhere outside ..
Just another human factor that MS Flight Sim can't simulate and that influence your ability to fly, scanning etc. etc. ..
So MS Flight Sim - good for procedure training and that's it ..

- madman

charron

I've used FS2004, got the demo FS X running but it is a bit of an graphics hog. For IFR flying and practise there are two separate skills: platform flying without reference to ground and the necessary development of the instrument panel scanning skills, and secondly the procedural part of knowing what to do when. You learn a little internal clock in the back of your head to keep up to date with things.

So, depending on what you fly you can bring up different models. Get a panel that matches - Learjet seems to sub pretty good for the S76C+, Caravan for the steam gauge aircraft. Play a little with the joystick to get your scan up to speed, then fly it with the autopilot. Modern aircraft these days are all autopilot flown (except for you sorry 222UT guys and the other unfortunates in a Phase II S76). And besides, for procedural work like hold entries and tracking you can just work the heading bug. A big part of learning is watching to see what all the other instruments are doing to give you a hint of what's going on.

Practise the NDB and VOR stuff because you'll probably get some Luddite hard-ass examiner for your ride that will want to see it. Practically in the real world nobody ever tracks a VOR or flies an NDB approach - it is all GPS. The FS sims have either a Garmin 500 or 295 that you can put up in the corner of the screen and use like you would in a real aircraft. I once saw a software splice that put the Garmin 500 sim into the FS program, but never got it to work right. The built-in Garmin for FS is pretty basic but OK for training. Flying an NDB approach with the 500 screen to peek at makes it a lot easier, just like real life.

You need to learn the basics, but once in the real world hold entries are calculated and timed by the FMS. You can bet on the correct hold entry with your copilot and then the box will tell you if you were both wrong (best part is that then you don't have to buy the FMS the first round at the watering hole).

Put a really big screen in front of you. Laptops are OK, but if you can connect to that 46" LCD you watch football on it is a whole different experience. I've seen some basic VFR training done with FS or X-Plane with the little control setup mentioned earlier in these posts and it is quite impressive when done in front of a large screen.

Lots of IFR pilots tune themselves up with an FS program, especially if they are not doing any IMC in their regular job.

Charon

madman1145

".. Practically in the real world nobody ever tracks a VOR or flies an NDB approach .."
In Europe and many other places on mother earth, it's very comon and used every day to fly NDB approaches and track VOR's ..
Like NDB approaches offshore in the North Sea - upsi ..

".. You need to learn the basics, but once in the real world hold entries are calculated and timed by the FMS .."
So what are you gonna do the day the bling-bling fancy computer fails ?? - call mommy ??
There is a reason why operators wants you to know and show that you can do timed turns when things goes in-op and gyroes say goodnight ..

".. but if you can connect to that 46" LCD you watch football .."
What 46"? I'm a lowhour pilot like many others who needs training, so I live in 2 suitcases and cary a laptop ..

Charron, may I ask, not to be rude at all - are you a certified pilot ??

- madman

DanglyBob

Does anyone find using a TrackIR set helps as well?

i4iq

Never tried it but it looks interesting. Tempted to buy one now, just to see!

http://www.edimensional.com/trackir/trackir.php

havick

Have any of you tried X-Plane?

I have been using that lately to keep the IFR skills up, the aircraft seems to react more realistically to the environmentals than Microsoft FS. Plus you can also change aircraft configs in it (ie engine HP etc as you all well know there can be different engines for the same airframe). At the end of the day though there's substitute for the real thing but it is great for ironing the bugs out of the system so you get your money's worth in the air.

bladewashout

I'd always thought a Sim would be good for practice engine failures, helping you react more automatically, particularly if you are in a 22, when fast reactions are life-preserving! Does FS-X have a random engine failure mode?

Need some sort of a collective, pedals and cyclic, though, to make it useful.

Anyone have any comments on what is a good graphics card to use for FS-X?

BW