Informal heli nights UK (including arrangements)
Chief Bottle Washer
All done: that's another beer you owe me, HM 
Splot
You the man, thank you.
Now HM just promise me you won't ever do a job that requires coordination whilst distracted
. You know we love you really.....
Gary
You the man, thank you.
Now HM just promise me you won't ever do a job that requires coordination whilst distracted
. You know we love you really.....Gary
JBL
Yes either Dunkeswell or the Helicopter Museum, ASAP we want to do the first round of these as soon as we can, so watch this space. We are trying to give at least 2 weeks notice for all the locations.
GS.
Yes either Dunkeswell or the Helicopter Museum, ASAP we want to do the first round of these as soon as we can, so watch this space. We are trying to give at least 2 weeks notice for all the locations.
GS.
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The Helicopter Museum will have its lecture new theatre completed by the end of the summer. The site also has landing facilities, cheap B&B’s locally, and I am sure they could lay on food. Plus the extra bonus of being able to have a private viewing of the collection and maybe even a guide as well.
Looking unlikely just due to me being in the wrong place, I was due to be in Doncaster overnight that night which and have premises available, but I'll be down near Rutland Water that night unfortunately.
We are trying to get Doncaster(ish) Coventry(ish) and South west done by end of May but rosters and premises availability are the controlling factors at the moment.
We are trying to have dates firmed with at least 2 weeks notice for everyone who is interested.
GS
We are trying to get Doncaster(ish) Coventry(ish) and South west done by end of May but rosters and premises availability are the controlling factors at the moment.
We are trying to have dates firmed with at least 2 weeks notice for everyone who is interested.
GS
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Safety evenings
Sorry K48 ... for delay in responding to your three queries re T/R failure handling.
Having discussed the item with Gary, the T/R failure exercise is likely to be an agenda item at the next evening. Dunkeswell - Weston-s-Mare or wherever.
I'm sure most PPLs will have studied the exercise and probably practised at some stage of their training. What I would be happy to do, is run through the handling techniques I have used and also those that appear in various PFMs .... but I can see the subject monopolising the evening. Its Gary's excellent show and he will decide what is appropriate at future meetings.
But K48 ... to answer your questions in turn. (But please note, that the following just touches on a broad brush handling principle.) I've published a detailed article on the subject ... see LOOP February 2008 issue. www.loop.aero.
Q1. RRPM decay. The high rate of R22 rrpm decay is well known following rapid reduction of power, but on most types that condition isn't a significant problem, even on the 22.
I teach that in the T/R failure case, we don't really have a T/R problem!! What we have is power plant we cannot fully use! So.
T/R lets go ... rapid yaw (right USA models) left most others.
It isn't necessary to either 'dump the lever or 'chop' the throttle. Just a smooth fairly rapid lowering of lever co-ordinated with throttle closing. The idea is to prevent further yaw. Then re-apply some power to stabilise a 30 degree yaw at 60 knots or so. So rrpm decay is not a major problem.
Q2. Most PFMs permit a 25 knot maximum run-on touch down. With the right training, G/S can usually be reduced to less than 20 knots in nil wind. Skid equipped aircraft.
My first T/R landing was made at 60 kts! (Cranfield 1986) The second at a more reasonable 20 knots. (Biggin Hill 1999.) Both occasions the heli remained upright without damage. (other than the bust T/R)
Q3. I've nil experience of a component departure. It is unlikely that say a B206 would remain controllable with the total loss of the T/R and T/R transmission assemblies. The forward C of G shift would be affected by pax/luggage/fuel/cabin load, and max aft cyclic might possibly control the full nose down condition. Lowering collective does of course worsen that condition. I can offer no advice based on experience on this one .. but sadly I know of three cases where the loss of T/R transmission was fatal.
Sorry ... space and/or occasion doesn't allow the subject to be addressed in detail. No doubt this will be possible with models and diagrams at a future safety evening. I'm happy to put my pennorth in to to open the discussion, since as I have mentioned in an earlier thread, I take the view that 75% of the T/R failure can be taught on the ground!
Being familiar with the basic principles, any reasonably competent pilot should have more than a sporting chance of making a safe landing.
Safe flying to all and look forward to meeting again shortly,
Dennis Kenyon.
Having discussed the item with Gary, the T/R failure exercise is likely to be an agenda item at the next evening. Dunkeswell - Weston-s-Mare or wherever.
I'm sure most PPLs will have studied the exercise and probably practised at some stage of their training. What I would be happy to do, is run through the handling techniques I have used and also those that appear in various PFMs .... but I can see the subject monopolising the evening. Its Gary's excellent show and he will decide what is appropriate at future meetings.
But K48 ... to answer your questions in turn. (But please note, that the following just touches on a broad brush handling principle.) I've published a detailed article on the subject ... see LOOP February 2008 issue. www.loop.aero.
Q1. RRPM decay. The high rate of R22 rrpm decay is well known following rapid reduction of power, but on most types that condition isn't a significant problem, even on the 22.
I teach that in the T/R failure case, we don't really have a T/R problem!! What we have is power plant we cannot fully use! So.
T/R lets go ... rapid yaw (right USA models) left most others.
It isn't necessary to either 'dump the lever or 'chop' the throttle. Just a smooth fairly rapid lowering of lever co-ordinated with throttle closing. The idea is to prevent further yaw. Then re-apply some power to stabilise a 30 degree yaw at 60 knots or so. So rrpm decay is not a major problem.
Q2. Most PFMs permit a 25 knot maximum run-on touch down. With the right training, G/S can usually be reduced to less than 20 knots in nil wind. Skid equipped aircraft.
My first T/R landing was made at 60 kts! (Cranfield 1986) The second at a more reasonable 20 knots. (Biggin Hill 1999.) Both occasions the heli remained upright without damage. (other than the bust T/R)
Q3. I've nil experience of a component departure. It is unlikely that say a B206 would remain controllable with the total loss of the T/R and T/R transmission assemblies. The forward C of G shift would be affected by pax/luggage/fuel/cabin load, and max aft cyclic might possibly control the full nose down condition. Lowering collective does of course worsen that condition. I can offer no advice based on experience on this one .. but sadly I know of three cases where the loss of T/R transmission was fatal.
Sorry ... space and/or occasion doesn't allow the subject to be addressed in detail. No doubt this will be possible with models and diagrams at a future safety evening. I'm happy to put my pennorth in to to open the discussion, since as I have mentioned in an earlier thread, I take the view that 75% of the T/R failure can be taught on the ground!
Being familiar with the basic principles, any reasonably competent pilot should have more than a sporting chance of making a safe landing.
Safe flying to all and look forward to meeting again shortly,
Dennis Kenyon.
Just a note to the R44 pilot departing xxxxxxxxx today. You may have thought your rearward departure with a quick 180 degree turn was impressive and your zoom climb followed by a nose over probably felt like the Pepsi max for the two of you onboard. I just hope you didn't have a student onboard who will emulate your every move.
It saddens me to think that you might have been instructing but maybe, hopefully, you were SFH'ing and your pax was up for the type of flying displayed.
The people on the ground all said similar, not going to repeat what you were called.
The R44 isn't designed for pushovers and yes, you might think you are an expert and do it all the time. All I can say is good luck for the future.
PS, was there really any need to have the engine running on the ground, rotors stopped, with you standing outside of the a/c chatting away waiting for your pax to return to the a/c. I can't see the reason for it personally.
It saddens me to think that you might have been instructing but maybe, hopefully, you were SFH'ing and your pax was up for the type of flying displayed.
The people on the ground all said similar, not going to repeat what you were called.
The R44 isn't designed for pushovers and yes, you might think you are an expert and do it all the time. All I can say is good luck for the future.
PS, was there really any need to have the engine running on the ground, rotors stopped, with you standing outside of the a/c chatting away waiting for your pax to return to the a/c. I can't see the reason for it personally.
Last edited by helimutt; 27th Apr 2008 at 19:40. Reason: edited the name due to the fact I looked up the company name and I'm not surprised now.This pilot has already written off at least one a/c, poss two.
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Sounds like the AAIB need to be on standby for this character!
Im interested in the comment about leaving the engine running with the blades not turning?? I am presuming that the clutch was dis-engaged but the engine was running?? Even so...there is still friction with the Drive belts and the sheaves on the drive shaft. I wonder how long it will be until the belts fail in flight with some poor unsuspecting Self Fly hirer in command who has to perform an emergency landing (Hopefully) due to the actions of someone who used the aircraft hours or weeks before! Maybe it would be better to name and shame so that the aircraft can be grounded and checked before the next flight????
This is coming from my experience of being involved in a serious accident a few years ago caused by a ticking time bomb in the aircraft caused by another weeks before.
Flash
Im interested in the comment about leaving the engine running with the blades not turning?? I am presuming that the clutch was dis-engaged but the engine was running?? Even so...there is still friction with the Drive belts and the sheaves on the drive shaft. I wonder how long it will be until the belts fail in flight with some poor unsuspecting Self Fly hirer in command who has to perform an emergency landing (Hopefully) due to the actions of someone who used the aircraft hours or weeks before! Maybe it would be better to name and shame so that the aircraft can be grounded and checked before the next flight????
This is coming from my experience of being involved in a serious accident a few years ago caused by a ticking time bomb in the aircraft caused by another weeks before.
Flash
Last edited by Flashover999; 27th Apr 2008 at 21:50.
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I'm hoping to hold the sim evening atWycombe sometime over the next couple of weeks - the week of the 17th I think. Suggested dates to suit all would be appreciated. Everyone will be welcome, but please remember that the primary aim is to get PPL(H)s into the sim to see what it's like in cloud, so time will be limited.
Sorry for the delay - it has been a busy time for me!
Phil
Sorry for the delay - it has been a busy time for me!
Phil
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Hi Paco,
Thanks for continuing to arrange these events.
Assuming you are talking the 17th June ?
Since you asked for recommendations - I would prefer the week after if possible, I am on hols until 22nd June.
Regards
Thanks for continuing to arrange these events.
Assuming you are talking the 17th June ?
Since you asked for recommendations - I would prefer the week after if possible, I am on hols until 22nd June.
Regards
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I'm up for the let-the-PPLs-crash-the-sim evening, either the week of the 17th or the 22nd, any evening apart from Fridays is fine. It would be good to get a final date before the end of this week, though, so time allocation can be sorted out.
Hovering AND talking
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I'd really like to have a go in the sim as well! However, logistics from Norfolk are tricky so could a date be confirmed soon please? Monday evenings would be best for me.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls