What do you make of this?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 44
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From: london
What do you make of this?
Hey what does everyone think to this?
It seems quite good seen as id like to move up the engineering ladder within the helicopter world.
Thoughts / views would be most appreciated!
http://careers.whl.co.uk/engineering-prog.htm
Many thanks,
james
It seems quite good seen as id like to move up the engineering ladder within the helicopter world.
Thoughts / views would be most appreciated!
http://careers.whl.co.uk/engineering-prog.htm
Many thanks,
james
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 614
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From: On the Rump of Pendle Hill Lancashi
James
If I was 40yrs or so less in height/age I would be racing you to get there.
on a serious note, that looks like a golden opportunity for a young person male or female who wants to get a good grounding in engineering , the company would obviously be able to help immensly and would in their own interests steer anyone who was able and successful in the right direction, it would help if you went un- encumbered by wife and children or dog and mortgage.
Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb
If I was 40yrs or so less in height/age I would be racing you to get there.
on a serious note, that looks like a golden opportunity for a young person male or female who wants to get a good grounding in engineering , the company would obviously be able to help immensly and would in their own interests steer anyone who was able and successful in the right direction, it would help if you went un- encumbered by wife and children or dog and mortgage.
Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
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From: UK
Promotion? Promotion to where or what exactly?
The Westlands job will involve building helicopters in Yeovil. There's only a finite number of other companies who also build helicopters - ie Bell, Sikorsky, Eurocopter, Agusta etc etc.
However, a licensed (maintenance) engineer has got the prospects of working virtually anywhere where helicopters are based.
If you would favour the latter, then have a look at Bond Offshore Helis. I've read somewhere that they are currently running an apprentice scheme for maintenance engineers.
The Westlands job will involve building helicopters in Yeovil. There's only a finite number of other companies who also build helicopters - ie Bell, Sikorsky, Eurocopter, Agusta etc etc.
However, a licensed (maintenance) engineer has got the prospects of working virtually anywhere where helicopters are based.
If you would favour the latter, then have a look at Bond Offshore Helis. I've read somewhere that they are currently running an apprentice scheme for maintenance engineers.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 44
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From: london
Interesting.
I guess promotion to bigger better jobs. I think the option to move about to different companies and doing varied work ( like working on different helicopters, working up to head of maintanence etc ) is most important in my mind.
Westland are also doing an apprentiship where you can specify in overhaul and repair.
However i will defiently give Bond a look. For some reason there web-site wont work on my Safari, stupid Mac internet system!
You wouldnt happen to know where bond train there people would you? Im assuming Aberdeen?
I guess promotion to bigger better jobs. I think the option to move about to different companies and doing varied work ( like working on different helicopters, working up to head of maintanence etc ) is most important in my mind.
Westland are also doing an apprentiship where you can specify in overhaul and repair.
However i will defiently give Bond a look. For some reason there web-site wont work on my Safari, stupid Mac internet system!
You wouldnt happen to know where bond train there people would you? Im assuming Aberdeen?
Joined: May 2005
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From: UK
Seems like a good opportunity for a young person to get some experience, but doesn't actually get you any qualifications recognised in the aviation industry, ie, a license. Oh and nvq 2/3, not worth the paper they're printed on, in my opinion, having done them.
If you want to work with helicopters, get someone to back you through your license. The 3 offshore operators in aberdeen all have schemes running.
Better yet, get onto the farnborough college course and get into Premiair, loads of different types to work on, and your aren't stuck in aberdeen!
If you want to work with helicopters, get someone to back you through your license. The 3 offshore operators in aberdeen all have schemes running.
Better yet, get onto the farnborough college course and get into Premiair, loads of different types to work on, and your aren't stuck in aberdeen!
I'll get me coat......
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 537
Likes: 22
From: Gold Coast, Australia.
What do you make of this?
It's off the movie "Flying High" or "Airplane" as it was known in the US....
remember when Lloyd Bridges character hands a piece of paper to the controller....
says "What do you make of this?"......
Bugger it, just watch the clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl_yp...eature=related
I'll get me coat.....
CH
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 1
From: USA
garn,
That posting raises the confusion that seems inherent in British dual meaning of the term "Engineer"
To most of the world, folks who maintain aircraft with wrenches and stuff are called "mechanics" and are paid as skilled manual workers. It is honorable and good work, in line with what a fellow in a power plant gets for maintaining the expensive generators and such. It is a "blue collar" job in US parlance. These people are called "Engineers" in the UK.
In the entire world's language, a person college-trained in mathematics and physical science after 4 or 5 years attains the ability to design machines and is called an "Engineer". This "engineer" is a white collar person who works in management, and who can (and often does) rise to run design sections and even become CEO of manufacturing companies. This person has perhaps ten times the academic training of a "mechanic" and this true "engineer" is about the same professional skill level as an accountant or as a teacher.
A "mechanic" gets perhaps 40% of the salary of an "Engineer".
The posting that you are reading is for a "mechanic." I strongly encourage folks who have strong mechanical skills, strong math and science backgrounds to become "engineers" and only become "mechanics" if they cannot put up with the academic rigor. This is what Bravo 73 means when he says "do you want to build helicopters (ie design them, in which case work toward becoming an "engineer") or fix them (ie be a mechanic)."
That posting raises the confusion that seems inherent in British dual meaning of the term "Engineer"
To most of the world, folks who maintain aircraft with wrenches and stuff are called "mechanics" and are paid as skilled manual workers. It is honorable and good work, in line with what a fellow in a power plant gets for maintaining the expensive generators and such. It is a "blue collar" job in US parlance. These people are called "Engineers" in the UK.
In the entire world's language, a person college-trained in mathematics and physical science after 4 or 5 years attains the ability to design machines and is called an "Engineer". This "engineer" is a white collar person who works in management, and who can (and often does) rise to run design sections and even become CEO of manufacturing companies. This person has perhaps ten times the academic training of a "mechanic" and this true "engineer" is about the same professional skill level as an accountant or as a teacher.
A "mechanic" gets perhaps 40% of the salary of an "Engineer".
The posting that you are reading is for a "mechanic." I strongly encourage folks who have strong mechanical skills, strong math and science backgrounds to become "engineers" and only become "mechanics" if they cannot put up with the academic rigor. This is what Bravo 73 means when he says "do you want to build helicopters (ie design them, in which case work toward becoming an "engineer") or fix them (ie be a mechanic)."
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: between rocks and hard places
Some mechanics are very adamant to be called engineers. For some reason they take the semantics quite seriously. Nick wrapped up the difference nicely. Its simply different professions. Just as little as the mechanic can be expected to make design decisions, the engineer might not know a crowbar from a wrench. Whatever you decide, good luck, have fun and enjoy it.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Richmond Texas
Engineer?
Nick
Much like over here. The same duality existed with railroad engine drivers being called engineers. I thought this unjust until I had the opportunity to browse an early 1900s copy of the Pennsylvania Railroad's Fireman's Apprentice Training Manual. These guys had to know a lot just to shovel coal. There was considerable classical thermodynamics there and math well above the current high school level.
After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!
Much like over here. The same duality existed with railroad engine drivers being called engineers. I thought this unjust until I had the opportunity to browse an early 1900s copy of the Pennsylvania Railroad's Fireman's Apprentice Training Manual. These guys had to know a lot just to shovel coal. There was considerable classical thermodynamics there and math well above the current high school level.
After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 56
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From: Canada
Sir, I agree with your descriptions and differences but only to a point. If on the other hand you live in a tent, in the bush and your machine is broke and your so-called mechanic pulls some hard hours in sub-zero/ + 30C with bugs to beat the band, bare hands, covered in jet-fuel, with only sat-phone service for support...AND wakes me up the next morning 1 hour early for run-ups...AND wants to be called an engineer....Well Sir I will indeed call him an Engineer. I have always referred to them as such and will continue to do so. That boy/girl has earned it...period.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,835
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From: Philadelphia PA
The term 'engineer' is vastly different in countries that have ties to England (Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK) than anywhere else in the world.
I was rather surprised that Canada allowed aircraft repair technicians to have the title 'engineer' (as in Aircraft Maintenance Engineer- AME) appended to their designation. There was considerable opposition to this from the various provincial Professional Engineering councils, but as this was a federally mandated title, these organization's issues were dismissed.
I'm surprised that the term Engineer is still allowed to be used the way it is in England, as the Europeans have an entirely different view of things, and I thought the EU would have demanded something be done about the situation. But then again, England still uses miles, quarts, and pints....
I don't wish to put down those who fix and maintain aircraft of any description, but they are not 'Engineers' in the generally accepted definition of the term in Canada or the US, nor I think in Australia or New Zealand.
I was rather surprised that Canada allowed aircraft repair technicians to have the title 'engineer' (as in Aircraft Maintenance Engineer- AME) appended to their designation. There was considerable opposition to this from the various provincial Professional Engineering councils, but as this was a federally mandated title, these organization's issues were dismissed.
I'm surprised that the term Engineer is still allowed to be used the way it is in England, as the Europeans have an entirely different view of things, and I thought the EU would have demanded something be done about the situation. But then again, England still uses miles, quarts, and pints....
I don't wish to put down those who fix and maintain aircraft of any description, but they are not 'Engineers' in the generally accepted definition of the term in Canada or the US, nor I think in Australia or New Zealand.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
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From: USA
Backward Blade, your analogy makes absolutely no sense because you justify your argument with a silly analogy. Of course mechanics are essential to safety of flight! Were you in the bushes for 3 weeks and a rock star came along with a bottle of water, you might decide that Rock Stars were more essential yet. Give us all a break, OK?
A true "engineer" is a design expert who can create a new machine. A "mechanic-engineer" knows the maintenance manual, obtains the parts and fixes the machine. If the mechanic-engineer does not follow the maintenance manual, he will go to jail (it happens too often). In sharp contrast, the true "engineer" wrote the maintenance manual.
Call your mechanic whatever you wish (especially if he gets very huffy and you need him to tighten bits in the bushes), kiss him on the lips because you love him, but he is a mechanic. Send him to engineering college and he might make a very very good engineer (perhaps better than those graduate engineers who don't know a wrench from a wench).
If you insist on using the same title for vastly different occupations with vastly different intellectual and educational requirements, then why not call your mechanic "Prime Minister", or "Doctor" or perhaps "Emperor of the Earth"?
A true "engineer" is a design expert who can create a new machine. A "mechanic-engineer" knows the maintenance manual, obtains the parts and fixes the machine. If the mechanic-engineer does not follow the maintenance manual, he will go to jail (it happens too often). In sharp contrast, the true "engineer" wrote the maintenance manual.
Call your mechanic whatever you wish (especially if he gets very huffy and you need him to tighten bits in the bushes), kiss him on the lips because you love him, but he is a mechanic. Send him to engineering college and he might make a very very good engineer (perhaps better than those graduate engineers who don't know a wrench from a wench).
If you insist on using the same title for vastly different occupations with vastly different intellectual and educational requirements, then why not call your mechanic "Prime Minister", or "Doctor" or perhaps "Emperor of the Earth"?
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,012
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From: USA
Semantics again! I really don't know what you mean by "licensed engineer"
Here is a bit about becoming an Aerospace Engineer:
http://www.ae.gatech.edu/admissions/FASET/Intro.pdf
I know that there are many top-notch Aerospace Engineering colleges in the UK, University of Liverpool comes immediately to mind. The courses around the world are quite similar, and degrees from US, UK, Germany and India are recognized and common in the aerospace industry world-wide.
Here is a bit about becoming an Aerospace Engineer:
http://www.ae.gatech.edu/admissions/FASET/Intro.pdf
I know that there are many top-notch Aerospace Engineering colleges in the UK, University of Liverpool comes immediately to mind. The courses around the world are quite similar, and degrees from US, UK, Germany and India are recognized and common in the aerospace industry world-wide.