Where does the UK/JAR "twin only" mentality come from?
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I should think the Challenger should feel comfortable bringing forth the Data to support the challenge.
Have I not given ample anecdotal evidence to support my claim by referencing four examples of why I support the notion Rules don't prevent bad decisions?
Glasgow, the 139, the London Crane, and the Shetland accidents are all recent and all involve some questionable decision making and all were Fatal Accidents.
All were sophisticated Twin Engine Helicopters, crewed by well trained and quite capable and experienced Pilot(s) who were seen to be quite Professional.
You wanted to use numbers of accidents rather than Rates....so I will go with the same convention if you wish.
I suggest, based upon those four Accidents, all of the Stacks of Regulations you folks have, have not cured the problem and cannot cure the problem.
Prove me wrong.
Have I not given ample anecdotal evidence to support my claim by referencing four examples of why I support the notion Rules don't prevent bad decisions?
Glasgow, the 139, the London Crane, and the Shetland accidents are all recent and all involve some questionable decision making and all were Fatal Accidents.
All were sophisticated Twin Engine Helicopters, crewed by well trained and quite capable and experienced Pilot(s) who were seen to be quite Professional.
You wanted to use numbers of accidents rather than Rates....so I will go with the same convention if you wish.
I suggest, based upon those four Accidents, all of the Stacks of Regulations you folks have, have not cured the problem and cannot cure the problem.
Prove me wrong.
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Hey Bubba!
Kinda funny you would mention Challenger in a conversation about bad judgement. Y'all ever heard about Thiokol????
Now the situation is there ain't nobody over this side of the pond gives a sh1t what you Yanks do over there. You can't drink til you'rall 21. Bert y'all have the right to carry a concealed firearm at 16? 18? Y'all hose down innocent civilians from Apaches. Over here we don't! When we go to war we don't worry too much about the enemy. It's blue on blue gives us nightmares! But only when y'all are involved!
Are we different over here? You betcha! Praise The Lord!!!
So I'm intrigued. Why is it y'all so interested in what we all do over on this sceptred Isle? Beginning to sound like you have a problem. An axe to grind? A chip? But with your EMS/Law enforcement record I can understand why y'all so sensitive!
Kinda funny you would mention Challenger in a conversation about bad judgement. Y'all ever heard about Thiokol????
Now the situation is there ain't nobody over this side of the pond gives a sh1t what you Yanks do over there. You can't drink til you'rall 21. Bert y'all have the right to carry a concealed firearm at 16? 18? Y'all hose down innocent civilians from Apaches. Over here we don't! When we go to war we don't worry too much about the enemy. It's blue on blue gives us nightmares! But only when y'all are involved!
Are we different over here? You betcha! Praise The Lord!!!
So I'm intrigued. Why is it y'all so interested in what we all do over on this sceptred Isle? Beginning to sound like you have a problem. An axe to grind? A chip? But with your EMS/Law enforcement record I can understand why y'all so sensitive!
Last edited by Tandemrotor; 1st Apr 2014 at 21:02.
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Now the situation is there ain't nobody over this side of the pond gives a sh1t what you Yanks do over there
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Kinda funny you would mention Challenger in a conversation about bad judgement.
Find a place where I said the UK had a monopoly on bad judgement?
In fact, if you look back, I have said exactly the opposite.
What I have said is trying to use "Legislation" as a cure for it does not work and is itself a Bad Decision.
Bad Decision making is not limited to just Pilots and for sure not to any one single Nationality.
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SS:
Sorry about your friends. Obviously the point was that you said you didn't know what the engine failure induced accident rate for the Lynx was compared to the Gazelle, now it is clear that you know it is not 100,000 times more rare. It's probably not even 10 times more rare. In fact at a pure guess I'd estimate that it isn't even significantly different - with the possibility that it is even greater in the Lynx than the Gazelle! ( guess based on the fact I know of 2 engine failure crashes in Lynx but none in the Gazelle) If that were the case it would make that 'carting around of a spare engine just incase' (rendering the Lynx practically useless in Afganistan) a pointless exercise, wouldn't it?
A hidden cost of 2 engines was a terrible lack of helicopter capacity, with horrible consequences.
Are we (taxpayers) really so rich that we can afford to replace safe, cheap, powerful and effective single engined Gazelles with... er what exactly?
Let's run the generals around in A109's?
The answer is not clear cut and becomes one of scale (very large being more suited to multi-engines).
AnFI;
I lost 3 friends that day, what's your point?
I lost 3 friends that day, what's your point?
A hidden cost of 2 engines was a terrible lack of helicopter capacity, with horrible consequences.
Are we (taxpayers) really so rich that we can afford to replace safe, cheap, powerful and effective single engined Gazelles with... er what exactly?
Let's run the generals around in A109's?
The answer is not clear cut and becomes one of scale (very large being more suited to multi-engines).
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th Apr 2014 at 21:24. Reason: Learn to use the quote button
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Sorry about your friends. Obviously the point was that you said you didn't know what the engine failure induced accident rate for the Lynx was compared to the Gazelle,
.. based on the fact I know of 2 engine failure crashes in Lynx but none in the Gazelle.
ASN Aircraft accident 27-APR-1977 Westland SA 341G*Gazelle G-BBSI
And another;
ASN Aircraft accident 22-FEB-1977 Aérospatiale SA 341G Gazelle N69TH
And another;
ASN Aircraft accident 30-MAR-2000 Aérospatiale SA 342L Gazelle
And another;
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...EV%2008-12.pdf
And another;
ASN Aircraft accident 23-OCT-1979 Aérospatiale SA 341G Gazelle N119SF
I'll let you trawl through the remaining incidents Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
That's me for a while, laters..
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none of those fatal - un like the twin - better result in the Gazelle
not clear that engine failure is strictly true either esp in this case:
"A noted anomaly was a tear in the aircraft skin at the forward base of the upper vertical fin,
forward of the enclosed tail rotor. Trapped in the folded
skin material were leaves from a fir tree, which was not
a type found in the immediate vicinity of the crash site.
Further photographs of what is believed to have been
the intended landing area showed a substantial fir tree
of a matching type, with what appeared to be damage
to branches at less than half its height."
not clear that engine failure is strictly true either esp in this case:
"A noted anomaly was a tear in the aircraft skin at the forward base of the upper vertical fin,
forward of the enclosed tail rotor. Trapped in the folded
skin material were leaves from a fir tree, which was not
a type found in the immediate vicinity of the crash site.
Further photographs of what is believed to have been
the intended landing area showed a substantial fir tree
of a matching type, with what appeared to be damage
to branches at less than half its height."
So does anyone actually know the probabilities of accidents
Eg pilot error accounts for 1 accident in x million hours
Gearbox failure accounts for 1 accident in y million hours
Engine failure accounts for
As for single engine France has just allowed single engine ifr pax carriage on fixed wing so how does that work in EASA land my CAA ops inspector couldn't explain it ??????
Eg pilot error accounts for 1 accident in x million hours
Gearbox failure accounts for 1 accident in y million hours
Engine failure accounts for
As for single engine France has just allowed single engine ifr pax carriage on fixed wing so how does that work in EASA land my CAA ops inspector couldn't explain it ??????
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Tandemrotor
A few weeks ago, you said:
And now:
By all means speak for your parochial self, but not everyone on this side of the pond or on this forum is a Little Englander.
Rotorheads has always been an international forum and discussions have been greatly enriched by the input of professional helicopter pilots from all around the world.
Hmm. 
BB's not the one making offensive and silly jingoistic comments.
And he's not the one who's intolerant of any view which differs from his own.
FL
A few weeks ago, you said:
Why are you so interested in what we do in the UK? Frankly I couldn't give a flying f@ck what you yanks do in the US of A. You have a system. We have ours.
Why would I 'ask myself' such a question, when I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in the answer? Why would I? I only fly British registered aircraft when I fly in US airspace.
Ask yourself why the US FAA does not have the same standard as does the UK?
Now the situation is there ain't nobody over this side of the pond gives a sh1t what you Yanks do over there .......etc etc (irrelevant nonsense not quoted)
Rotorheads has always been an international forum and discussions have been greatly enriched by the input of professional helicopter pilots from all around the world.
Beginning to sound like you have a problem. An axe to grind? A chip?
BB's not the one making offensive and silly jingoistic comments.
And he's not the one who's intolerant of any view which differs from his own.
FL
