Police Job UK
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Dupsspud
You don't know much about the industry do you?
I can honestly say that in my opinion there is no discrimination between civilian pilots and military!
The company I work for employ’s both military and civilian pilots, that said, and I can only speak for ex Army pilots, our background lends itself very nicely to police and HEMs work, and there is very little training required to bring us on line. What the industry requires is nothing like corporate or off shore work and can take a fair amount of time to learn. It can be a steep learning curve for the uninitiated.
Yme
You don't know much about the industry do you?
I can honestly say that in my opinion there is no discrimination between civilian pilots and military!
The company I work for employ’s both military and civilian pilots, that said, and I can only speak for ex Army pilots, our background lends itself very nicely to police and HEMs work, and there is very little training required to bring us on line. What the industry requires is nothing like corporate or off shore work and can take a fair amount of time to learn. It can be a steep learning curve for the uninitiated.
Yme
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It might be that your "friend" whilst having 3000+hrs valuable offshore experience an onshore operator might prefer some experience in their own areas too, ie police/HEMS operations and did he have the minimum P1/Captain hours for said position? Also, the "preferential" treatment you think ex-mil pilots receive might be down to the "preferential" training and experience received by these fellows 
Hovering AND talking
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Originally Posted by Dupsspud
I am relatively new to the heli world
Originally Posted by Dupsspud
Premiscare, seem to be a laughing stock, always advertising. Friend of mine has WELL in excess of the requirements but hasn't even been asked in for an interview. Is it because he doesn't have a military (cavalier)background.
cav·a·lier 
/ˌkævəˈlɪər, ˈkævəˌlɪər/[kav-uh-leer, kav-uh-leer]
–noun
1.a horseman, esp. a mounted soldier; knight.
2.one having the spirit or bearing of a knight; a courtly gentleman; gallant.
3.a man escorting a woman or acting as her partner in dancing.
4.(initial capital letter) an adherent of Charles I of England in his contest with Parliament. –adjective
5.haughty, disdainful, or supercilious: an arrogant and cavalier attitude toward others.
6.offhand or unceremonious: The very dignified officials were confused by his cavalier manner.
7.(initial capital letter) of or pertaining to the Cavaliers.
8.(initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Cavalier poets or their work. –verb (used without object)
9.to play the cavalier.
10.to be haughty or domineering.
/ˌkævəˈlɪər, ˈkævəˌlɪər/[kav-uh-leer, kav-uh-leer]–noun
1.a horseman, esp. a mounted soldier; knight.
2.one having the spirit or bearing of a knight; a courtly gentleman; gallant.
3.a man escorting a woman or acting as her partner in dancing.
4.(initial capital letter
) an adherent of Charles I of England in his contest with Parliament. –adjective 5.haughty, disdainful, or supercilious: an arrogant and cavalier attitude toward others.
6.offhand or unceremonious: The very dignified officials were confused by his cavalier manner.
7.(initial capital letter
) of or pertaining to the Cavaliers. 8.(initial capital letter
) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Cavalier poets or their work. –verb (used without object) 9.to play the cavalier.
10.to be haughty or domineering.
Therefore, if your first post had been phrased something like.....
"I've noticed Premiair have been advertising a lot and have wondered why when a friend of mine appears to have in excess of the requirements but hasn't been invited for an interview. Do Premiair (or any other operators) have a preference for ex-military pilots or are civilian trained pilots with the same hours and experience treated equally?"
... you might have had a more favourable response. On the whole, I thought some of the posters were remarkably polite!!!!
I remember a few years ago a Ppruner posting about his "friend's" experience and wondering why the "friend" wasn't getting any work. From what I remember, there was more to it than met the eye!
Cheers
Whirls
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Dupspud, apology accepted..................however your attitude absolutely sucks my friend.
For real profanity I suggest you turn up for interview, and then to a unit, with your attitude and biased unfounded views, and await your welcome to this industry.
The offer of friendly advice stands.
For real profanity I suggest you turn up for interview, and then to a unit, with your attitude and biased unfounded views, and await your welcome to this industry.
The offer of friendly advice stands.
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Dupsspud
I don't think it was.
You didn't use "cavalier" as a noun, but as an adjective which means 'showing a lack of proper concern' and is derogatory. eg X has a cavalier attitude to flight safety. Y has a cavalier approach to flying.
Your comment was not only offensive to Mil pilots but displayed an ignorance of military flying which, contrary to the impression Hollywood might have given you, is actually highly disciplined.
Even surviving the rigorous selection/training/chopping process to earn military Wings is deserving of respect IMHO, but that's only the stepping-stone. It's the experience mil pilots gain in operational flying thereafter which, perhaps not surprisingly, is attractive to some employers for particular jobs.
Losing the chip would be a good start. It might also make the inevitable unsuccessful applications less distressing if you accept that others had greater and/or more relevant experience.
That doesn't mean accepting defeat. It means being even more determined to overcome obstacles (actual or perceived), doing as much as you can to build up a breadth of experience and being seen by other pilots/potential employers as someone totally committed to a goal and determined to succeed.
There may well be an element of old boy network (there is in most fields), so start building up your own contacts. It can be very useful - but counter-productive if you create a poor impression. eg By making silly comments which antagonise, or preparing excuses for possible failure.
Watch out for opportunities to broaden your experience and grasp them.
Note possible obstacles and work out ways to overcome them.
If you believe you can succeed, you probably will.
If you believe you can't, you won't.
You may dismiss my advice because I have no experience of trying to get a job as a pilot. On the other hand, many years ago, I was a grammar school boy from a small town in Wales with an ambition not only to be a barrister, but to be a barrister in London.
FL
I think my use of the word cavalier (courtly gentleman fighting for the Realm) was taken out of context.
You didn't use "cavalier" as a noun, but as an adjective which means 'showing a lack of proper concern' and is derogatory. eg X has a cavalier attitude to flight safety. Y has a cavalier approach to flying.
Your comment was not only offensive to Mil pilots but displayed an ignorance of military flying which, contrary to the impression Hollywood might have given you, is actually highly disciplined.
Even surviving the rigorous selection/training/chopping process to earn military Wings is deserving of respect IMHO, but that's only the stepping-stone. It's the experience mil pilots gain in operational flying thereafter which, perhaps not surprisingly, is attractive to some employers for particular jobs.
I am a civilian trained pilot hoping to work for a civilian aviation industry
That doesn't mean accepting defeat. It means being even more determined to overcome obstacles (actual or perceived), doing as much as you can to build up a breadth of experience and being seen by other pilots/potential employers as someone totally committed to a goal and determined to succeed.
There may well be an element of old boy network (there is in most fields), so start building up your own contacts. It can be very useful - but counter-productive if you create a poor impression. eg By making silly comments which antagonise, or preparing excuses for possible failure.
Watch out for opportunities to broaden your experience and grasp them.
Note possible obstacles and work out ways to overcome them.
If you believe you can succeed, you probably will.
If you believe you can't, you won't.
You may dismiss my advice because I have no experience of trying to get a job as a pilot. On the other hand, many years ago, I was a grammar school boy from a small town in Wales with an ambition not only to be a barrister, but to be a barrister in London.
FL
Red On, Green On
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There's no law against selecting the best person for the job, whatever the industry. The idea that a pilot with XX hours is better than one with less than XX hours is cobblers. The effect of selection, training and experience on a military pilot is something that appeals to many employers.
Remember that most mil pilots have passed all their mil training first time, or they get the chop. A self-funded civilian trained pilot can take the exams as many times as they need to get through, at any stage. In the mil a stude gets a max of three bites at one lesson, and if the third ride is below standard they get chopped. Most will have gone through the system needing not even one extra attempt at a single lesson.
Remember that most mil pilots have passed all their mil training first time, or they get the chop. A self-funded civilian trained pilot can take the exams as many times as they need to get through, at any stage. In the mil a stude gets a max of three bites at one lesson, and if the third ride is below standard they get chopped. Most will have gone through the system needing not even one extra attempt at a single lesson.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I wonder if old dippypotatoe, or whatever his name was, would have something to say if he knew there were female pilots doing the job!
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(V - sorry to change the direction of your post.) Just read AA's post - nearly made some derogatory coment about the suggestion that Mil pilots are better than civies but it begs the question....... In the current civi system, if money is no object, what stops....um... (got to be careful here!!) less "able" people getting a CPL? Light blue touch paper..............!!
!!) less "able" people getting a CPL? Light blue touch paper..............!!
Thread Starter
Sgt
I think problem is that, with enough money to throw at the problem a lot people who perhaps should have taken up flower arranging can eventually get through the system.
We all probably know of some CPL holder that we wouldn't let fly our children around. I know of one 5000hr+ guy who talks a good flight, but can't really handle with any flair, and one sub 400hr guy who's handling is spot on (Yes flown with both)
If on the day a CPL test candidate is not up to scratch I am sure the CAA will have no qualms about failing or partialling them, however if they make the grade on the day, then they become the industry's problem (so to speak).
The onus of the problem is now pushed onto the Chief Pilot, and TREs within any company that chooses to employ said pilot. This will weed out some of the remaining problem individuals.
There always remains the situation were someone has paid lots of money into a company for training to CPL standard and suddenly they need a pilot tomorrow. At this point Mr CP chooses to use said problem individual and it probably doesn't matter how good or bad they are, they are going off to work tomorrow no matter what.
The system isn't perfect, I think thats one reason that some companies favour ex Mil Pilots is as stated earlier, that they are selected through a pretty unforgiving process and if they get through clearly have some kind of aptitude for the job (doesn't they're perfect, but then who is).
All IMHO anyway.
V.
I think problem is that, with enough money to throw at the problem a lot people who perhaps should have taken up flower arranging can eventually get through the system.
We all probably know of some CPL holder that we wouldn't let fly our children around. I know of one 5000hr+ guy who talks a good flight, but can't really handle with any flair, and one sub 400hr guy who's handling is spot on (Yes flown with both)
If on the day a CPL test candidate is not up to scratch I am sure the CAA will have no qualms about failing or partialling them, however if they make the grade on the day, then they become the industry's problem (so to speak).
The onus of the problem is now pushed onto the Chief Pilot, and TREs within any company that chooses to employ said pilot. This will weed out some of the remaining problem individuals.
There always remains the situation were someone has paid lots of money into a company for training to CPL standard and suddenly they need a pilot tomorrow. At this point Mr CP chooses to use said problem individual and it probably doesn't matter how good or bad they are, they are going off to work tomorrow no matter what.
The system isn't perfect, I think thats one reason that some companies favour ex Mil Pilots is as stated earlier, that they are selected through a pretty unforgiving process and if they get through clearly have some kind of aptitude for the job (doesn't they're perfect, but then who is).
All IMHO anyway.
V.
Avoid imitations
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Nice one Bertie glad to see you're still keeping up standards and have the CRM issues under control. 
But aren't you getting a little soft in your old age? - that new briefing aid hasn't got any nails in it!
P.S. I propose you put that one up for a caption competition.
My effort:
"Right, you two! I've got the stick, which one of you has the carrot?"
But aren't you getting a little soft in your old age? - that new briefing aid hasn't got any nails in it!
P.S. I propose you put that one up for a caption competition.
My effort:
"Right, you two! I've got the stick, which one of you has the carrot?"
.