Has your insurance just gone up ??
Thread Starter
Has your insurance just gone up ??
I have just noticed my insurance has just jumped from 15k to 17k.....has all aviation insurance gone up ? or is it mainly rotorcraft due in part by idiots crashing Robbo,s left right and centre ??
Yes yes i know you cant afford a proper one but PLEASE stop breaking them doing pointless autos to the ground etc etc 
Yes yes i know you cant afford a proper one but PLEASE stop breaking them doing pointless autos to the ground etc etc
Thread Starter
Do you have a turbine sub 500k ? That would be similar price i guess. Still wish somebody would put a syndicate together of machines that are
1) sub 500k
2) no autos to ground
3) No sub 500 hr pilots
4) Used less than say 300 hrs a year.
Somebody should run with this ( i,m too lazy) and if you get 20 + machines you could place the 3rd party and self insure the hulls, i think everybody would save 5k+ ..if you get 50 machines you could make yourself a nice sum just organising it . I have asked the question before .....WHY do we have to subsidize the schools etc constantly crashing their Robbo,s ??
For all you wannabees out there who cannot afford to fly yet give this a try ..i would be happy to give you % of what i save as , i am sure, all the other owners would.
1) sub 500k
2) no autos to ground
3) No sub 500 hr pilots
4) Used less than say 300 hrs a year.
Somebody should run with this ( i,m too lazy) and if you get 20 + machines you could place the 3rd party and self insure the hulls, i think everybody would save 5k+ ..if you get 50 machines you could make yourself a nice sum just organising it . I have asked the question before .....WHY do we have to subsidize the schools etc constantly crashing their Robbo,s ??
For all you wannabees out there who cannot afford to fly yet give this a try ..i would be happy to give you % of what i save as , i am sure, all the other owners would.
Thread Starter
Whirls ..i forgive you as insurance is obviously not your forte 
There is absolutely NO similarity at all !! Lloyds was unlimited ....that means you could lose more than you covered ...up to an unlimited amount. Insuring a hull for say 350k means .....in a write off you lose .....350k ( less any excess) This means that if you lose one out of say 50 machines it will cost each member the equivalent of a 2% premium.
There is absolutely NO similarity at all !! Lloyds was unlimited ....that means you could lose more than you covered ...up to an unlimited amount. Insuring a hull for say 350k means .....in a write off you lose .....350k ( less any excess) This means that if you lose one out of say 50 machines it will cost each member the equivalent of a 2% premium.
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It is my understanding that at least two new aviation insurance companies have come into existence in the U.S. in the last years or so, increasing competition for customers, in turn resulting in premium reductions overall. However, this may not apply to all pilots and all acft.
RB
RB
Hovering AND talking
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Whirls ..i forgive you as insurance is obviously not your forte
That's good of you 
Whilst the individual Lloyds underwriter accepted unlimited personal liability (because they underwrote more policies than they could afford), the liability of any one individual policy was limited/quantifiable.
So then Nigel, in your grand scheme of say 50 helicopters and 20 owner/operators, how is this "policy" to be designed? What about the operator with a 109 compared to those with robbies? What is the percentage of payout for each member of the scheme should the more expensive aircraft go tits up? Who decides? Does the "scheme" pay no matter whose fault? What events are covered and what isn't? If self-insuring is such a good idea, why don't more people do it?
If you lose one of 50 machines which are all self-insured through your syndicate, then the syndicate loses the cost of a machine and the individual member loses 2% of the value of the aircraft, not 2% of the premium.
If your scheme is going to work another way, then I think you need to explain it a bit more clearly.
Cheers
Whirls
"is it mainly rotorcraft due in part by idiots etc..."
Wish I could start off a thread as constructively as yourself Nigelh.....eh NOT!
Firstly because someone crashes a robbie it does not make them an idiot. Secondly are you saying you think that all robbie flyers are idiots? Thirdly you wish to re-write the training manual for PPL(H) and stop full down auto's to save you a non-idiot and non-robbie flyer some money?
I have renewed my insurance through Haywards and had a similar percentage increase, however, my helicopter is not used for training. Yes I know you are going to say that the increase is because I'm paying for the training ones and their mistakes but hey thats insurance. I would have to pay an extra 20% for my heli to be used in a school. So all those 20% from all the robbies in schools does go into the pot. I have also had a 10% excess of hull value added for an overspeed unless I pay another 15% on top of my premium. Again most schools will pay this 15% again adding to the pot.
I agree that there is almost an monopoly and that some sort of self administrated scheme could work and yes it could be scaled for higher time pilots( 'cause they never make mistakes do they?) and that it could be sub £500k to keep out the big boys with their IFR and autopilots.
If you have a proposal that makes some sort of sense, doesn't preclude a large percentage of the helis flying in the UK and is of course open to idiots then as whirygig says lets here it a bit more clearly and of course slowly for all us idiots out here
Firstly because someone crashes a robbie it does not make them an idiot. Secondly are you saying you think that all robbie flyers are idiots? Thirdly you wish to re-write the training manual for PPL(H) and stop full down auto's to save you a non-idiot and non-robbie flyer some money?
I have renewed my insurance through Haywards and had a similar percentage increase, however, my helicopter is not used for training. Yes I know you are going to say that the increase is because I'm paying for the training ones and their mistakes but hey thats insurance. I would have to pay an extra 20% for my heli to be used in a school. So all those 20% from all the robbies in schools does go into the pot. I have also had a 10% excess of hull value added for an overspeed unless I pay another 15% on top of my premium. Again most schools will pay this 15% again adding to the pot.
I agree that there is almost an monopoly and that some sort of self administrated scheme could work and yes it could be scaled for higher time pilots( 'cause they never make mistakes do they?) and that it could be sub £500k to keep out the big boys with their IFR and autopilots.
If you have a proposal that makes some sort of sense, doesn't preclude a large percentage of the helis flying in the UK and is of course open to idiots then as whirygig says lets here it a bit more clearly and of course slowly for all us idiots out here
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I had a quote from HSBC but it was very similar to Haywards so I didn't see any reason to change as they have always been good. My premium went down slightly but thats only due to extra no claims discount.
Its a shame we cant get power by the hour like they do in fixed wing or restricted policies for up to 100 hrs, either would suit me as I can't really do much more than 100 hrs a year.
Its a shame we cant get power by the hour like they do in fixed wing or restricted policies for up to 100 hrs, either would suit me as I can't really do much more than 100 hrs a year.
Thread Starter
Bravo ....Good Point 
but i guess they would not pay out if i was strapped in with a pair of goggles on the way back from a party !!
Whirls.....shall i say this s l o w l y .... Lloyds names did not get stung because the wrote more than they could cover ...they were totally in the hands of their syndicate and had NO limit on the downside...therefore if you were very rich you did NOT join Lloyds because you would be bailing everyone else out , as it is joint and several ie you keep paying till yr dry whether it is 1m or 20m it all goes. The policies they wrote , like asbestos etc had no ceiling. But back to the point
1) When you pay your premium it is say 3 -4 % of the hull value as a guess.
2) If 50 people self insure and they lose a machine they will lose 2% , but are still slightly up on balance. ( If the machine is worth only 250k then the loss is only 1 % ) Think of the owners as having say 50k shares, so the 500k Squirrel has 10 shares and the 100k R44 ( no R22,s allowed ) has 2 shares.
In a write off you get paid Full value out of the syndicate pot.
Of course not ALL Robbo pilots are daft ........but i suspect MOST are
but i guess they would not pay out if i was strapped in with a pair of goggles on the way back from a party !!Whirls.....shall i say this s l o w l y .... Lloyds names did not get stung because the wrote more than they could cover ...they were totally in the hands of their syndicate and had NO limit on the downside...therefore if you were very rich you did NOT join Lloyds because you would be bailing everyone else out , as it is joint and several ie you keep paying till yr dry whether it is 1m or 20m it all goes. The policies they wrote , like asbestos etc had no ceiling. But back to the point
1) When you pay your premium it is say 3 -4 % of the hull value as a guess.
2) If 50 people self insure and they lose a machine they will lose 2% , but are still slightly up on balance. ( If the machine is worth only 250k then the loss is only 1 % ) Think of the owners as having say 50k shares, so the 500k Squirrel has 10 shares and the 100k R44 ( no R22,s allowed ) has 2 shares.
In a write off you get paid Full value out of the syndicate pot.
Of course not ALL Robbo pilots are daft ........but i suspect MOST are
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My R22 policy has just come up for renewal and the premium is down by 33% on last year. Some of this is obviously due to reduction in hull value (that's what 2200 hours life does for you) and some is NCD. However I notice that a new clause has crept in banning practice autos without an FI on board. I was not aware that this had been an issue in recent claims but I guess it must have been.
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I have just noticed my insurance has just jumped from 15k to 17k.....
Sergeant thunder and the company CSM, Mr Dead Eye are conducting rifle practice, when the captain strolls up.
Sergeant Thunder, “Platoon, target five hundred metres dead ahead, take aim, for effect, five rounds fi…,
I say Sarge, what is the target today?
Good morning sir, yessir, target is a squirrel chopper trying to get out of the large building dead ahead sir.
‘I say, didn’t we hose him down last week there sergeant?’
“Yessir, but he must think we are not watching, he’s at it again.”
‘Very good, carry on there sergeant.’
“Yessir”
Corporal dogsbody, “Permission to bring up more supplies Captain”
‘What sort of supplies there Corporal?’
“Four inch mortars sir.”
‘Good thinking corporal, take two sections.’
“Yessir”
‘Oh and Sergeant do spread those mortars around a bit when the corporal gets back, you may knock out a few more of the little blighters.’
“Yessir.”
‘I say where is Sarn’t Major Dead Eye?’
“Over here sir watching the colonials.”
‘Good show, would you mind getting their mess sergeant to lay on a few slabs of their xxxx, the troops will be needing to celebrate again tonight.’
“Yessir.”
‘Good beer that xxxx and I’ve heard just lately that the bloody colonials have had a major reduction in their hull insurance and excess on their robbo’s. I’m sure they won’t mind laying it on for the rest of the brigade.’
“They probably don’t go skiting in front of their underwriters about flying into hangers, Sir”
‘True Mr. Dead Eye, very true, although I’ll be bound they’re well entitled to skite about plenty else’
“Yessir, good day sir.”
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Leaving aside Robinsons, which have always had an interesting claims history, well known to insurers, my impression is that the helicopter book of business for insurers world wide has taken a real bath over the last couple of years with a higher frequency of expensive losses than perhaps expected - would be interesting to hear from a heli broker/insurer on that. My guess and I stress its only a guess is that insurers world wide have or will probably cough up around a $1,000 million to pay helicopter claims arrising over the last five years. Just five accidents alone account for $200 million of this total.
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nigelh
Can you explain to us all why your threads/replies are always antagonistic, especially when Robbo's are mentioned? The reason I ask is, I like to think that the majority of people reading and posting on this website are either professional pilots, or people who would like to be.
Having searched your recent posts, it would seem to indicate that you are a bit of a loner!............or a bit of a knob!
regards
Can you explain to us all why your threads/replies are always antagonistic, especially when Robbo's are mentioned? The reason I ask is, I like to think that the majority of people reading and posting on this website are either professional pilots, or people who would like to be.
Having searched your recent posts, it would seem to indicate that you are a bit of a loner!............or a bit of a knob!
regards