Airmanship
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Airmanship
Just watched a helicopter approach to land at a local heliport. Nice enough approach and good safe handling in the hover prior to touchdown, but then he turned his tail toward the open hangar.
Anybody got any opinions on weather this is the "safest" thing.
I make it a point to land with the aircraft facing any potential "visitors" who may approach the helicopter so I can see them coming. I do this regardless of the wind direction.
Anybody got any opinions on weather this is the "safest" thing.
I make it a point to land with the aircraft facing any potential "visitors" who may approach the helicopter so I can see them coming. I do this regardless of the wind direction.
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What side is the fuel pump on? How strong was the wind? How heavy was he going to be on take off? Was he going to put the heli straight into the hangar? Are non aviation aware visitors allowed to walk on the helipad unescorted? Does local procedures mandate landing that way?
Seems difficult to hang the pilot out to dry without more information.....
Seems difficult to hang the pilot out to dry without more information.....
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Without answering these and the millions more questions we could ask on the factors of the approach, it is an impossible question to answer.....
The more hours the quicker and better our reaction time on making these subconcious decisions....
Did u ask the pilot why he made that turn? Chances are he had a bloody good reason
Attempting to land a heli out of wind with high all up weight is putting any potential passer by at far higher risk of flying debris than an into wind with exceptional awareness and control.
The more hours the quicker and better our reaction time on making these subconcious decisions....
Did u ask the pilot why he made that turn? Chances are he had a bloody good reason
Attempting to land a heli out of wind with high all up weight is putting any potential passer by at far higher risk of flying debris than an into wind with exceptional awareness and control.
Hovering AND talking
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Helicopters are like horses; never, ever approach them from behind! All non-aviation people (and non-horsey people) should be told that!
The possibility of approaching visitors is one of the last factors I would consider when deciding in which direction I'm going to point the thing when landing. Given the security of the airfield from which I fly, I had never considered it at all!
Cheers
Whirls
The possibility of approaching visitors is one of the last factors I would consider when deciding in which direction I'm going to point the thing when landing. Given the security of the airfield from which I fly, I had never considered it at all!
Cheers
Whirls
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Good Airmanship!!???
I am of the opinion that, depending on wind and all other factors involved as discussed above, if possible always land so you can see whom or what approaches your aircraft. When landing at busy airfields, land facing the most dangerous part of the helicopter away from people. In some helicopters this is the front and back. I also teach this to my students. The reason is very simple....You never know the intension or state of mind of the person approachin the aircraft if any. And the possibility always exsist that some bloke would like to give you a quick message before you shut down for some stupid reason.
At the end of the day nobody can loose anything I think to do this if safe to do so.
At the end of the day nobody can loose anything I think to do this if safe to do so.
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I wasn't jumping on you, just suggesting a few of the reason's he might've done what he did. If the hangar he landed next to had 2 MD500s and a B206 in it, he probably wouldn't be too worried about someone running into the TR.
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Each circumstance should be evaluated by the pilot at that time and it is foolhardy to specify do's and dont's in advance of a situation. There are advisory points that ought to be considered one by one if applicable and most guys are sensible enough to make that evaluation at the time.
If there were no people in the area at that time then the direction of the tail is not an issue at all. In this case I'd be tempted to ensure that the aircraft was landed into the prevailing wind unless there was another consideration such as the location of the refuel point if pertinent.
If however, the hangar doors were open and the wind direction was such that it was blowing towards the open hangar doorway, then I would land away so the downwash should not blast into the hangar. Then get out and give the hangar manager a hard time.
If there were no people in the area at that time then the direction of the tail is not an issue at all. In this case I'd be tempted to ensure that the aircraft was landed into the prevailing wind unless there was another consideration such as the location of the refuel point if pertinent.
If however, the hangar doors were open and the wind direction was such that it was blowing towards the open hangar doorway, then I would land away so the downwash should not blast into the hangar. Then get out and give the hangar manager a hard time.
There are some circumstances where a tailwind cannot be tolerated - my aircraft, for example. If the Engine Air protection System (EAPS) is being used (dust, blowing grass clippings, debris, ice etc) then the machine cannot have a relative wind from more than 90 degrees. End of story - the engine can ingest its own exhaust and flame out.
But for the Robbie or JetBanger that Terry is describing, plenty more factors can influence the pilot's decision to face away from the hangar. Not a great way to park, but the circumstances were the factor here.
But for the Robbie or JetBanger that Terry is describing, plenty more factors can influence the pilot's decision to face away from the hangar. Not a great way to park, but the circumstances were the factor here.
I usually fly right INTO the hangar in a strong wind, this avoids the danger of blade sail, keeps you dry if it is raining and really impresses the ladies. You must check that the hangar is wide enough and that the doors are firmly locked down.
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Leper of the taxiway
Always been my habit to put the sun at my back TM, so the cockpit doesn't become a furnace. As for hangar doors, especially the open kind, I never go near 'em with a helo. I've had strips torn off me by hangar rats for having the audacity to hover taxy along the marked taxi way a good 10m from their open doorways.
PS You end up with weather radar or a stormscape in that 407? If so has it saved your scrawny neck yet?
PS You end up with weather radar or a stormscape in that 407? If so has it saved your scrawny neck yet?
I always did it if the wind was acceptable - because it made it easier to push in the hangar. If there were people in my spot i'd land somewhere else. Obviously you should look at your landing site and behave accordingly. If theres a danger of some young children jumping into the tail rotor then face them obviously.
Very rarely do you see unaccompanied children at airport parking areas, so its not usually an issue.
Accompanied ones will always be grabbed and held tightly by overprotective parents.
That just leaves the adults. Most have common sense. Anyone one who sees a VERY noisy machine with large spinning blades beating the air into submission, who then runs wildly towards the tail rotor with their arms flailing - deserves everything they get.
I think that Darwin bloke was onto something....
Very rarely do you see unaccompanied children at airport parking areas, so its not usually an issue.
Accompanied ones will always be grabbed and held tightly by overprotective parents.
That just leaves the adults. Most have common sense. Anyone one who sees a VERY noisy machine with large spinning blades beating the air into submission, who then runs wildly towards the tail rotor with their arms flailing - deserves everything they get.
I think that Darwin bloke was onto something....
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Just to try to put my question in perspective, I'll go over the points:
Wind is about 15 knots from the east. Some turbulance due to the buildings
hangar faces east so the wind is blowing into the open hangar
No unrestrained children
No moron adults
Sunny day
Had sandwiches for lunch
I never use less than 8 poo tickets after the job
I haven't been to this pad on a regular basis.
I don't want fuel
We are only 4 pob in a 206L
(and like the pilot in the original post, I have just made a safe, good looking approach and terminated in the hover facing the hangar.)
Now, do I turn into wind and put the tailrotor towards the hangar or do I land facing the direction of any possible problems?
Again I will say that the pilot on the day did everything safely, from coming in to going out. It was the direction of landing that got me thinking, is there a good way or is any direction okay?
22Clipper, didn't get either, radar too expensive, no really good place to put the stormscope antena so now have to tough it out, or as someone once said, "harden F#$%en up". Don't do much at night or in really ****ty weather so not too much of a bother.
Thanks for the opinions guys, my first post may have been a little vague.
Wind is about 15 knots from the east. Some turbulance due to the buildings
hangar faces east so the wind is blowing into the open hangar
No unrestrained children
No moron adults
Sunny day
Had sandwiches for lunch
I never use less than 8 poo tickets after the job
I haven't been to this pad on a regular basis.
I don't want fuel
We are only 4 pob in a 206L
(and like the pilot in the original post, I have just made a safe, good looking approach and terminated in the hover facing the hangar.)
Now, do I turn into wind and put the tailrotor towards the hangar or do I land facing the direction of any possible problems?
Again I will say that the pilot on the day did everything safely, from coming in to going out. It was the direction of landing that got me thinking, is there a good way or is any direction okay?
22Clipper, didn't get either, radar too expensive, no really good place to put the stormscope antena so now have to tough it out, or as someone once said, "harden F#$%en up". Don't do much at night or in really ****ty weather so not too much of a bother.
Thanks for the opinions guys, my first post may have been a little vague.
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mcgowan
can i chime in with some stuff.
former student of yours. if ive got you write. how are ya
i work out of a pad with only 2 approaches. i have no choice but to keep the tail away from danger (public and obstacles)which means i constanly land with tail winds in certain conditons. all approaches i do have head wind components until in ground effect.
now there are reasons for doing things a certain way. maybe he has been taught always land into wind regardless.
another is his confidence in landing with tail winds ( weath cocking, pedal control, unfamiliar with rearward flight limits on type , loading etc. ).
ive experienced the arse of the helicopter being pushed up with a gust and running out of aft cyclic. ( only had about 400 hours at the time ) bloddy good lesson for me.
my chiefy always said turn towards the most danger at all times. im my case to protect the public and the machine. it would be great to hear another point of view from the pilot
cheers BP
can i chime in with some stuff.
former student of yours. if ive got you write. how are ya
i work out of a pad with only 2 approaches. i have no choice but to keep the tail away from danger (public and obstacles)which means i constanly land with tail winds in certain conditons. all approaches i do have head wind components until in ground effect.
now there are reasons for doing things a certain way. maybe he has been taught always land into wind regardless.
another is his confidence in landing with tail winds ( weath cocking, pedal control, unfamiliar with rearward flight limits on type , loading etc. ).
ive experienced the arse of the helicopter being pushed up with a gust and running out of aft cyclic. ( only had about 400 hours at the time ) bloddy good lesson for me.
my chiefy always said turn towards the most danger at all times. im my case to protect the public and the machine. it would be great to hear another point of view from the pilot
cheers BP
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nigelh,
Into the hangar, as in into it or inside it. Into it with the doors shut surely would impress the ladies, me too................
If it's into it as in the doors are open, not bad either.
Have often sat there facing the hangar thinking how much less trouble it would be if I could just go forward the extra 30 or so feet and then shut down.
Once inside do you wait until you shut down before you try to tie down the blades or just chuck something into them as they slow down. Let me know cause I would love to be there. (not too close though)
Into the hangar, as in into it or inside it. Into it with the doors shut surely would impress the ladies, me too................
If it's into it as in the doors are open, not bad either.
Have often sat there facing the hangar thinking how much less trouble it would be if I could just go forward the extra 30 or so feet and then shut down.
Once inside do you wait until you shut down before you try to tie down the blades or just chuck something into them as they slow down. Let me know cause I would love to be there. (not too close though)
When i built my hangar i built it big enough that i could fit a Dauphin in it if i make enough money......in the meantime slumming it in a 350 the benefit is that i can fly in and out ( turning within the hangar would not be possible without LT *) Reversing out can be dangerous to the public but as they have no right to be there they are going to get what they deserve ( and if they happen to be a Rambler .......PARTY TIME !!!!!)
I would not advise ordinary skilled pilots to attempt this....it takes a fine touch once fully entered.
I would not advise ordinary skilled pilots to attempt this....it takes a fine touch once fully entered.
