Kent Police Helicopter
Kent Police Helicopter
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Bell222
Kent have been making use of the Essex 135, G-ESEX on an ad-hoc basis recently.
I am unaware of a firm order for an aircraft or an 'Invitation to Tender' for Maintenance or Pilot Support.
So, on that basis I would suggest that we're not going to see anything in the near future....
Unless anyone has rumours to the contrary?
Xavier
Kent have been making use of the Essex 135, G-ESEX on an ad-hoc basis recently.
I am unaware of a firm order for an aircraft or an 'Invitation to Tender' for Maintenance or Pilot Support.
So, on that basis I would suggest that we're not going to see anything in the near future....
Unless anyone has rumours to the contrary?
Xavier
Xavier: Your name epitomises Kent Constabulary.
The level of importance attached to the project (if it still exists) is reflected in the project being run (if that's the word) by a Sgt. (or is he a DS?).
One might have though that with a Chief Constable versed in the usefulness of an ASU in his previous post, there would have been more of a push.
The level of importance attached to the project (if it still exists) is reflected in the project being run (if that's the word) by a Sgt. (or is he a DS?).
One might have though that with a Chief Constable versed in the usefulness of an ASU in his previous post, there would have been more of a push.
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I have heard of some sort of vague possibility of a temporary short term stand alone trial. It would presumably have to use aircraft/PAOC etc. all hired in. Given the lack of decent spare police machines, it would not really prove very much.
What makes the difference and gets a police force an ASU is a small group of senior officers who push for their own. Kent have been f****ying around for so long, you wonder what it would take to convince them.
The trouble is that they cannot really get into a consortium and share a machine within any other force sensibly. The geography would mean that the other force(s) Air Support would be very seriously adversely affected. Maybe they should wait until the UK gets a border police and borrow from them, like they have from most other forces in the SE of England over the years.
The current financial position of police force cuts makes it less rather than more likely. This is a shame, because Kent could really use its own Air Support
What makes the difference and gets a police force an ASU is a small group of senior officers who push for their own. Kent have been f****ying around for so long, you wonder what it would take to convince them.
The trouble is that they cannot really get into a consortium and share a machine within any other force sensibly. The geography would mean that the other force(s) Air Support would be very seriously adversely affected. Maybe they should wait until the UK gets a border police and borrow from them, like they have from most other forces in the SE of England over the years.
The current financial position of police force cuts makes it less rather than more likely. This is a shame, because Kent could really use its own Air Support
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I believe Kent will be anxiously awaiting the outcome of the meetings regarding regionalisation of Air Support in the South East. With the imposed budget cuts on police forces most are reviewing areas in which they believed savings can be made, no suprise ASU's became an obvious target.
All forces are being encouraged to enhance cross-border relationships but unfortunately some of the bods higher up do not appreciate the complexities of moving existing ASU's to provide cover for a larger area!!!
All forces are being encouraged to enhance cross-border relationships but unfortunately some of the bods higher up do not appreciate the complexities of moving existing ASU's to provide cover for a larger area!!!
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a1w,
That sounds about right. Still trying to get Air Suppoirt without paying for it.........
Take a look at the map of the SE. No neignbouring force can share a hele with Kent without seriously affecting the service provided.
That sounds about right. Still trying to get Air Suppoirt without paying for it.........
Take a look at the map of the SE. No neignbouring force can share a hele with Kent without seriously affecting the service provided.
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Helinut..
See that's where you went wrong - high up bods in police forces do not do common sense or pratical terms!!
They have indeed begun to consider the implications of trying to move 2 of the ASU's near to Kent, but not thought about what that would do to the effectiveness of the air support already being provided from those locations!
See that's where you went wrong - high up bods in police forces do not do common sense or pratical terms!!
They have indeed begun to consider the implications of trying to move 2 of the ASU's near to Kent, but not thought about what that would do to the effectiveness of the air support already being provided from those locations!
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bell222,
I share a1w's views. This is not a problem of hardware (in anything other than the short term). The ACPOs etc are running around looking for cuts at the moment. Some never understood Air Support or liked it. They are certainly unlikely to take time at the moment to understand it now. Indeed some are always happy to take pot shots at Air Support. Away from the SE, there are some mind-numbingly daft propositions being floated for some Units at the moment. We will just have to see what appears. However UEOs etc may need to put their heads above the parapets, which may not be the best career move sometimes...........
I share a1w's views. This is not a problem of hardware (in anything other than the short term). The ACPOs etc are running around looking for cuts at the moment. Some never understood Air Support or liked it. They are certainly unlikely to take time at the moment to understand it now. Indeed some are always happy to take pot shots at Air Support. Away from the SE, there are some mind-numbingly daft propositions being floated for some Units at the moment. We will just have to see what appears. However UEOs etc may need to put their heads above the parapets, which may not be the best career move sometimes...........
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I believe the next round of discusions regarding South East air support is scheduled sometime in mid April, perhaps one step closer to providing some reassurance to the ASU's already in existance??
Surely the most logical solution would be for Kent to provide funding to the surrounding ASU's to provide an agreed level of service in return? It would be far cheaper option than going stand alone and possibly work out cheaper than the ad-hoc "rental" of air support they currently rely on?
Surely the most logical solution would be for Kent to provide funding to the surrounding ASU's to provide an agreed level of service in return? It would be far cheaper option than going stand alone and possibly work out cheaper than the ad-hoc "rental" of air support they currently rely on?
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The disadvantages of an arrangement such as you suggest lie with Sussex and Surrey Police. At present, each has high quality air support provided by a helicopter that operates in a relatively small area. Response times will be good, so allowing the Units to intervene rapidly, with associated high success rates.
If a police hele can respond to the scene of an incident within a few minutes, it has a much hgher chance of successful intervention. If it take 30 minutes to transit, many reactive jobs will have finished before the aircraft gets there.
If you use the same aircraft to cover a MUCH bigger area, then the benefit to Surrey and Sussex of their air support will be much reduced. Their council tax payers have paid a significant sum for their Air Support. It would IMHO, be a great shame to have that diluted, so that Kent could be said to have cover on the cheap.
Surrey has past experience of "sharing" air support with a larger partner. If you were to ask those who were involved, I suspect they would advise you of the many disadvantages.
If a police hele can respond to the scene of an incident within a few minutes, it has a much hgher chance of successful intervention. If it take 30 minutes to transit, many reactive jobs will have finished before the aircraft gets there.
If you use the same aircraft to cover a MUCH bigger area, then the benefit to Surrey and Sussex of their air support will be much reduced. Their council tax payers have paid a significant sum for their Air Support. It would IMHO, be a great shame to have that diluted, so that Kent could be said to have cover on the cheap.
Surrey has past experience of "sharing" air support with a larger partner. If you were to ask those who were involved, I suspect they would advise you of the many disadvantages.
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am i wrong in thinking that it was suggested to amalgamate surrey and sussex into one asu with just one machine possibly the 135 due to the ambulance service pulling out of sussex asu
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Bell222,
I am sure that could be one of the many rumours that have been floated. However, I know of no substance behind such a rumour.
In my view, if you wanted to get the optimum solution for Surrey and Sussex, why not have 2 heles, each providing a joint Police/HEMS role for 1 county. Or even get the Kent AA involved and provide joint heles in all 3 counties!
It is the most effective solution, but it won't happen because of Empires. Kent AA trust has been nibbling away at Surrey/Sussex for some time. Coordination between police forces is always difficult too.
I am sure that could be one of the many rumours that have been floated. However, I know of no substance behind such a rumour.
In my view, if you wanted to get the optimum solution for Surrey and Sussex, why not have 2 heles, each providing a joint Police/HEMS role for 1 county. Or even get the Kent AA involved and provide joint heles in all 3 counties!
It is the most effective solution, but it won't happen because of Empires. Kent AA trust has been nibbling away at Surrey/Sussex for some time. Coordination between police forces is always difficult too.
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Helinut,
I totally agree with the points you make especially the possible effects it could have on the service to those already in Sussex and Surrey, my suggestion was purely put forward as the powers that be seem adament on trying to stretch the areas both aircraft currently cover. But the practical and effective solution would of course be for Kent to have their own hele.
Bell222 - from what I understand Sussex ambulance - which are now SECAMB (South East Coast Ambulance) are still very supportive of Sussex ASU and continuing to keep that aircraft as dual role. From what I see it appears to be a very cost effective approach to providing air support for police and HEMS. Shame those in Wiltshire do not appear to agree and I would have to quote Helinut with the use of "Empires" as a reason why!!!
I totally agree with the points you make especially the possible effects it could have on the service to those already in Sussex and Surrey, my suggestion was purely put forward as the powers that be seem adament on trying to stretch the areas both aircraft currently cover. But the practical and effective solution would of course be for Kent to have their own hele.
Bell222 - from what I understand Sussex ambulance - which are now SECAMB (South East Coast Ambulance) are still very supportive of Sussex ASU and continuing to keep that aircraft as dual role. From what I see it appears to be a very cost effective approach to providing air support for police and HEMS. Shame those in Wiltshire do not appear to agree and I would have to quote Helinut with the use of "Empires" as a reason why!!!
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Bell 222,
Sounds like you are trying to say something, but personally I don't understand what you are getting at.........
Do you want to try again for those oif us slow on the uptake?
Sounds like you are trying to say something, but personally I don't understand what you are getting at.........
Do you want to try again for those oif us slow on the uptake?
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just trying to say that i feel in this day and age the uk should have full asu coverage but judging what has been said in in this post it seems that this will not be the case
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Don't think anyone here will disagree with that.
UK Police forces are getting squeezed for money at present though. Those who have not gone, will be less likely to throw money at "high profile" expenditure at present. By definition, those who have not gone already are going to be reluctant. Kent is really the most extreme case - other forces without Air Support tend to be tiny and rural.
Turn the argument around, Air Support needs police on the ground to make the arrests! Sometimes it seems there is no one there!
My take on this though is that publicly funded helicopters should be operated as joint emergency service helicopters. It reduces the area of operation for each hele, which makes it more effective. It also makes better use of under-utilised expensive resources.
The problem lies with government department empires. There is no incentive for Home Office aircraft to be used by Health Department and vice versa: quite the reverse. A real shame.
UK Police forces are getting squeezed for money at present though. Those who have not gone, will be less likely to throw money at "high profile" expenditure at present. By definition, those who have not gone already are going to be reluctant. Kent is really the most extreme case - other forces without Air Support tend to be tiny and rural.
Turn the argument around, Air Support needs police on the ground to make the arrests! Sometimes it seems there is no one there!
My take on this though is that publicly funded helicopters should be operated as joint emergency service helicopters. It reduces the area of operation for each hele, which makes it more effective. It also makes better use of under-utilised expensive resources.
The problem lies with government department empires. There is no incentive for Home Office aircraft to be used by Health Department and vice versa: quite the reverse. A real shame.
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on the subject of other areas here in lincs i believe it is cambs, humberside, north mids and norfolk "which itself is only part time" supply air support, maybe this is another can of worms best left unopened!!!!!!