Robinson R66 (merged threads)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
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R66
Evening all .... as a guy who is somewhat known for not flying the Robinsons ... this is just to say I spent today flying a couple of hours on 66NN at WAP. Full report to appear in an Aviation Mag soon. But ignoring the big picture .... all I can say is that the machine I flew is the smoothest ship it has ever been my pleasure to experience AND .... the quickest in its class. 125 knots indicated at 1000 feet & 5 degrees OAT, four up (one SB) three quarters fuel. Torque showing 70%. Did a VNE run at 82% Tq to 150 mph when a steepish turn produced nil increase in vibration. Also a 60 knot autorotational descent, (wind L & V) three up, throttle to idle ... to a zero speed vertical touch down skids on. Am I a convert? Maybe!
PS. Still has a lousy cyclic tho' Dennis Kenyon.
PS. Still has a lousy cyclic tho' Dennis Kenyon.
Not that much quicker, BUT this was 4 up (including SB), 3/4 fuel AND at only 70% N1 (roughly equivalent to 20" MAP on a 44?). And VNE at 82%?! Apparently, the 300 had to be de-tuned as it was too powerful out of the box; sounds like it still is.
On paper, it's an excellent machine with masses of storage space, good performance/enduranceand and, compared with the competition, it represents great value. But, as Dennis says, it still has THAT cyclic, a mast that looks like a giraffe on viagra and just looks and feels cheap. The 5th seat is a legal achievement more than a practical place to park an adult for anything more than a short trip.
The R66 shares many components with the R44, which isn't a bad thing if you're buying a 44, but at double the money for the 66, I'd expect something a bit more solid. It's a shame, because with that extra power and very little engineering effort, we could even have had proper door handles
On paper, it's an excellent machine with masses of storage space, good performance/enduranceand and, compared with the competition, it represents great value. But, as Dennis says, it still has THAT cyclic, a mast that looks like a giraffe on viagra and just looks and feels cheap. The 5th seat is a legal achievement more than a practical place to park an adult for anything more than a short trip.
The R66 shares many components with the R44, which isn't a bad thing if you're buying a 44, but at double the money for the 66, I'd expect something a bit more solid. It's a shame, because with that extra power and very little engineering effort, we could even have had proper door handles
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Mmmm... it does seem like an awful lot more money for not a lot more. I'm sure it flies very smooth, as most brand new helicopters do.
I think the fact that it sounds like a 'proper' helicopter, and not a tractor is the appeal to most people.
It's a shame the Frank is still clinging onto the (universally hated?) t-bar cyclic system. Surely a proper cyclic wouldn't put that much more weight on?
Does anyone know if the R66 is "belt driven" like the R44?
I think the fact that it sounds like a 'proper' helicopter, and not a tractor is the appeal to most people.
It's a shame the Frank is still clinging onto the (universally hated?) t-bar cyclic system. Surely a proper cyclic wouldn't put that much more weight on?
Does anyone know if the R66 is "belt driven" like the R44?
Happy to stand corrected 
This is an interesting extract, taken from here
A single Rolls-Royce model 250-C300/A1 (commercial designation RR300) free turbine turbo shaft engine powers the R66. The engine is mounted at a 37 degree nose-up attitude aft of the baggage compartment. A sprag type overrunning clutch or freewheel unit is splined directly into the engine power take off shaft. The free-wheel unit is connected directly to the main rotor gearbox via a shaft with flexible couplings at each end. A ring and pinion spiral bevel gear set at the main gearbox input reduces engine output speed to tail rotor driveline RPM. A second ring and pinion stage reduces speed from driveline to main rotor RPM. The main rotor gearbox is pressure lubricated with several internal oil jets.
The oil is pumped via a pump fitted to the main rotor gearbox through an airframe-mounted filter and cooled by an oil cooler, which receives its airflow from the engine cooling fan. Drive is transmitted directly to the main rotor gearbox. Engine oil cooling is via a ‘squirrel cage’ cooling fan mounted to the shaft forward of the tail rotor drive shaft, supplying cooling air through the engine oil cooler mounted on the left side of the engine bay.
This is an interesting extract, taken from here
A single Rolls-Royce model 250-C300/A1 (commercial designation RR300) free turbine turbo shaft engine powers the R66. The engine is mounted at a 37 degree nose-up attitude aft of the baggage compartment. A sprag type overrunning clutch or freewheel unit is splined directly into the engine power take off shaft. The free-wheel unit is connected directly to the main rotor gearbox via a shaft with flexible couplings at each end. A ring and pinion spiral bevel gear set at the main gearbox input reduces engine output speed to tail rotor driveline RPM. A second ring and pinion stage reduces speed from driveline to main rotor RPM. The main rotor gearbox is pressure lubricated with several internal oil jets.
The oil is pumped via a pump fitted to the main rotor gearbox through an airframe-mounted filter and cooled by an oil cooler, which receives its airflow from the engine cooling fan. Drive is transmitted directly to the main rotor gearbox. Engine oil cooling is via a ‘squirrel cage’ cooling fan mounted to the shaft forward of the tail rotor drive shaft, supplying cooling air through the engine oil cooler mounted on the left side of the engine bay.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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R66
Thanks 154 ... you just beat me to it. Odd how ppruners will come up with incorrect info and prepared to post. Even so ... the Enstrom 480 has been flying nicely on a rubber belt for 15 years or so and I haven't heard of one failing yet. Add to that an identical system has been used on the 28/280 models since 1968, so perhaps a belt drive isn't so bad after all.
Back to the R66 ... I can't imagine any pilot getting out of the type without being impressed by the way above average, smooth ride. I was astonished. And as a side and daftish note, and as a gimick, the Chief Engineer, (JM), his lady wife and tallish daughter somehow managed to get in the luggage locker for a kinky publicity shot, but it did happen! Now I'm sure the type will take my golf clubs ... and yours ... and yours ... and
Best wishes to all. Dennis Kenyon.
PS. All you Saturday 'open day' blighters at Heli Air 66 into left only empty barrels for my Sunday visit!
Back to the R66 ... I can't imagine any pilot getting out of the type without being impressed by the way above average, smooth ride. I was astonished. And as a side and daftish note, and as a gimick, the Chief Engineer, (JM), his lady wife and tallish daughter somehow managed to get in the luggage locker for a kinky publicity shot, but it did happen! Now I'm sure the type will take my golf clubs ... and yours ... and yours ... and
Best wishes to all. Dennis Kenyon.
PS. All you Saturday 'open day' blighters at Heli Air 66 into left only empty barrels for my Sunday visit!
I'm very surprised (but probably should not be) by the degree of negativity.
The cyclic isn't pretty but i doubt it is universally despised. It does actually work and does stay out of the way of your legs.
An extra seat even if small would be very significant to me. Proper storage space even more so. The ability to load up all the above, a decent amount of fuel and still be able to get off the ground? Priceless. Come on people, this is a different world to the r44, a machine that was itself ground-breaking in the helicopter industry.
It is faster than a B206 and much faster than a 480B. Cheaper to purchase than both and I would guess much easier to maintain based on Frank's driving philosophy.
I'm just grateful that someone has put out a new helicopter in the last 10 years. I want one, even if it is butt ugly.
(Actually I think I could even get used to the looks.)
The cyclic isn't pretty but i doubt it is universally despised. It does actually work and does stay out of the way of your legs.
An extra seat even if small would be very significant to me. Proper storage space even more so. The ability to load up all the above, a decent amount of fuel and still be able to get off the ground? Priceless. Come on people, this is a different world to the r44, a machine that was itself ground-breaking in the helicopter industry.
It is faster than a B206 and much faster than a 480B. Cheaper to purchase than both and I would guess much easier to maintain based on Frank's driving philosophy.
I'm just grateful that someone has put out a new helicopter in the last 10 years. I want one, even if it is butt ugly.
(Actually I think I could even get used to the looks.)
As expressed above, the t-bar has some positive points in that it's easy to get around... but I'm not looking forward to instructing with one.
The overall look of Frank's machines leaves a great deal to be desired. For some reason, though, the R-66 seems a bit less ugly than the -44 and the -22 - must be the sound.
The overall look of Frank's machines leaves a great deal to be desired. For some reason, though, the R-66 seems a bit less ugly than the -44 and the -22 - must be the sound.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Great Cyclic
I really like using Robinsons unique cyclic, have used it since 1989 and many thousands of hours. I find it gives great access and useability. I have even used the dual cyclic installed with the pistol grip at 180 degrees facing upwards when operating downwind training an advanced mustering student to give a bit more cabin room and was well able to conduct all operations.
If you look past the unusualness of the cyclic and become at home in the cockpit it performs very well, there are thousands of pilots out there now that dont know any different.
If you look past the unusualness of the cyclic and become at home in the cockpit it performs very well, there are thousands of pilots out there now that dont know any different.
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R66
I agree with KJ from NZ.
I own a R44 and think that the the "universally despised" cyclic is 100% OK to fly with and it allows really easy access - unlike many other helicopters I have flown where you have to fight with the cyclic to get access to the seat.
R66 performance will allow 4 pax, 2 sets of golf sticks and overnight bags - plus enough fuel to get somewhere meaningful. That is a whole lot different to a R44, and at not a great increase in cost.
I am very keen to fly one, and will over the next month or so.
For those of you who own your helis, compare the price & performance (particularly useful load) of the R66 to a AS350 B2, EC120B, B206 etc...there is a compelling argument for the R66 and it's a tough decision on what to buy. Sure you can't take 4 guys with axes and boots in a R66, but for many corporate or private tasks it looks like the machine for the job.
Arrrrj
I own a R44 and think that the the "universally despised" cyclic is 100% OK to fly with and it allows really easy access - unlike many other helicopters I have flown where you have to fight with the cyclic to get access to the seat.
R66 performance will allow 4 pax, 2 sets of golf sticks and overnight bags - plus enough fuel to get somewhere meaningful. That is a whole lot different to a R44, and at not a great increase in cost.
I am very keen to fly one, and will over the next month or so.
For those of you who own your helis, compare the price & performance (particularly useful load) of the R66 to a AS350 B2, EC120B, B206 etc...there is a compelling argument for the R66 and it's a tough decision on what to buy. Sure you can't take 4 guys with axes and boots in a R66, but for many corporate or private tasks it looks like the machine for the job.
Arrrrj
