The Met's EC145s are about to go Operational!
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What Limits
Just to let you know for your interest, Surrey Police now have a small number of civilian ASU observers onboard and I'm not sure whether the donuts still apply?
From my understanding Surrey Police are one of the first police services
in the UK to employ civilians as observers.
Whether it's a good or bad idea, I'm not sure it's the start of a new trend to spread across the country?
Captain Cop!
From my understanding Surrey Police are one of the first police services
in the UK to employ civilians as observers.
Whether it's a good or bad idea, I'm not sure it's the start of a new trend to spread across the country?
Captain Cop!
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Over London tonight, buzzing round like frantic, oversized bumble bees!
Great. Just as all operators are paying attention to noise, last night the front door rattled as 2 of these sheds went down H4. Or one of them went twice.
So - now we'll all have to suffer the consequences of the Met using helicopters that can't fly at a height which would reduce the noise. I remember Eurocopter saying that 3000ft was the optimum for noisy helicopters.
Will we sleep safer in our beds ? Er - no. Even with earplugs.
I heard the Surrey ASU on freq over Epsom at the weekend telling all and sundry that they were going into a position before the main race and "would be following the horses". For what reason do they need to create such a disturbance ? You couldn't hear the filming 44 that was up over the course - but the 135 joined in and suddenly we all knew there was a helicopter there.
So - now we'll all have to suffer the consequences of the Met using helicopters that can't fly at a height which would reduce the noise. I remember Eurocopter saying that 3000ft was the optimum for noisy helicopters.
Will we sleep safer in our beds ? Er - no. Even with earplugs.
I heard the Surrey ASU on freq over Epsom at the weekend telling all and sundry that they were going into a position before the main race and "would be following the horses". For what reason do they need to create such a disturbance ? You couldn't hear the filming 44 that was up over the course - but the 135 joined in and suddenly we all knew there was a helicopter there.
From my understanding Surrey Police are one of the first police services
in the UK to employ civilians as observers.
in the UK to employ civilians as observers.
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MightyGem
Sorry if I offended you!
The information I submitted came straight from the Surrey Police
internal newspaper called "OFF BEAT!"
Like most of the police services within the UK they all like to think they're
pioneering and innovative with ideas and trends.
Captain Cop!
The information I submitted came straight from the Surrey Police
internal newspaper called "OFF BEAT!"
Like most of the police services within the UK they all like to think they're
pioneering and innovative with ideas and trends.
Captain Cop!
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Capt Cop
Suffolk have had civvies for at least 5 years as far as I know.
I don't see a problem with having all civilian observers. They would be just as good at the job I am sure, and the "they can't deal with the public" argument is a no brainer, make them PCSO's and there you have it, job done, and for a saving of about £5k per observer plus the savings on police training and more bobbies on the streets.
Wonder if I will be in trouble now?
Suffolk have had civvies for at least 5 years as far as I know.
I don't see a problem with having all civilian observers. They would be just as good at the job I am sure, and the "they can't deal with the public" argument is a no brainer, make them PCSO's and there you have it, job done, and for a saving of about £5k per observer plus the savings on police training and more bobbies on the streets.
Wonder if I will be in trouble now?
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Max Chat
To some degree, I agree with you with regards to civilian observers carrying out exactly the same role as a police officer observer.
Like I said in a previous post, I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing?
However, it does concern a number of people within the police service
(response officers) regarding appointed civilian observers with the lack of ground/foot experience and have a minimal amount police legislation theoretical knowledge that is paramount in order to assist your police collegues fully on the ground.
It's simply a "grey area" and I'm sure it will continue to bring much interest
"for and against?"
As for the PCSO remarks, you're on your own mate!
Captain Cop!
Like I said in a previous post, I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing?
However, it does concern a number of people within the police service
(response officers) regarding appointed civilian observers with the lack of ground/foot experience and have a minimal amount police legislation theoretical knowledge that is paramount in order to assist your police collegues fully on the ground.
It's simply a "grey area" and I'm sure it will continue to bring much interest
"for and against?"
As for the PCSO remarks, you're on your own mate!
Captain Cop!
WARNING!! THIS IS FIRMLY TONGUE IN CHEEK!!!
So I guess - based on seeing them in action on the ground - that a police force seeking to employ PCSO's as air support observers is obliged to fit additional seats in the aircraft.
To date I have rarely seen 'silver tops' wandering around in groups of less than two - usually 3 - at a time.
I suppose if they are very small there may be room in the [excess] baggage compartment.
So I guess - based on seeing them in action on the ground - that a police force seeking to employ PCSO's as air support observers is obliged to fit additional seats in the aircraft.
To date I have rarely seen 'silver tops' wandering around in groups of less than two - usually 3 - at a time.
I suppose if they are very small there may be room in the [excess] baggage compartment.
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Hmmmmm PCSO"s (professional pedestrians) aside . Non Police observers are an idea (cant say Civvie cos police are civvies) If they are recruited having been police observers prior to retirement or for example ex loadies then it might not be a bad idea . The idea of putting someone without policing experience into a police role is never a good one . Whereas observing is not strictly policing , a lotof what they get involved in is. Legislation etc can be taught to anyone , however what cannot be taught is the police way of thinking (if we could please keep this on thread not degenerate into a police slagging thread) If I am an officer engaged in a pursuit and utilising something like TPAC .I want the guy overhead to have experience of doing just that on the ground , I cannot ask the aircraft to find me a suitable spot to deploy stinger or a feeder vehicle if the observer in question has never done this ,and does not understand the dynamics of a pursuit or what the officers on the ground are expecting . A lot of police work especially things like pursuits is based on every one concerned knowing their part. I cannot believe , but I stand to be corrected that someone who has never been involved in a long distance pursuit can effectively grasp the concepts of what is required . This can be shown by questions from our pilots . Whilst I think they are second to none and have experience I could only dream of . They will often ask things that are just impractical, illegal , unprocedural or even dangerous , not through ignorance or stupidity just through never having experienced this from the police officers pointof view .
Now please dont have a go at me , Police pilots are exceptional I am just making the point that it is hard for someone to make important and valid decisions based on no experience of having actually done it . Hampshire I do belive found this out and this is the reason they no longer have non police officers as observers . My own force has thought about it but dismissed it as impractical unless they could recruit ex observers direct.
Not a bad job to retire into though I would have thought
Now please dont have a go at me , Police pilots are exceptional I am just making the point that it is hard for someone to make important and valid decisions based on no experience of having actually done it . Hampshire I do belive found this out and this is the reason they no longer have non police officers as observers . My own force has thought about it but dismissed it as impractical unless they could recruit ex observers direct.
Not a bad job to retire into though I would have thought
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QUOTE
"Whereas observing is not strictly policing , a lot of what they get involved in is. Legislation etc can be taught to anyone , however what cannot be taught is the police way of thinking (if we could please keep this on thread not degenerate into a police slagging thread)"
Just when I thought we could have some fun !
"Whereas observing is not strictly policing , a lot of what they get involved in is. Legislation etc can be taught to anyone , however what cannot be taught is the police way of thinking (if we could please keep this on thread not degenerate into a police slagging thread)"
Just when I thought we could have some fun !
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I agree the Police observer should be a serving Police Officer because they know inside out what the guys on the ground need. After all is that not why they employ pilots who are professionals in their field not just a gentleman of the street whom they give a pilotslicence.
I apologise for offending any civilian observers. I am only going by what I have learned by watching my bobbies.
I apologise for offending any civilian observers. I am only going by what I have learned by watching my bobbies.
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Hey, what about civvy Typhoon pilots? Might save money. Sorry, forgot about the missiles. Civvy Lynx pilots then. Sod it, just civilianise the whole lot. Police, army, everything. Loads cheaper. Until they realise their worth and the unions get hold of it that is.