"Die another Day" Helicopter Stunt
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Die another Day" Helicopter Stunt
I am watching the helicopter stunt from the James Bond movie "Die Another Day". It is the one where the MD600N is pushed out the back of a cargo plane. In the stunt the Engine is off as it leaves the plane with the rotor blades NOT turning. Scenerio: Given enough Altitude, would it be possible to start a helicopter as it is falling and get the rotors up to operating speed and recover before it crashes. Maybe it is one for the Mythbusters? 
John
John
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dont think the mythbusters even need bother! I think if it were for real the rotor blades would cone up so much they would likley snap or deform,
and if you gould get the engine up and running in time (another achievment in itself whilst the helicopter spins around like god knows what) you would never get the blades to level out and achieve any lift.
An ULTRA extreme case of Vortex ring!!!
Not possible
MADY
and if you gould get the engine up and running in time (another achievment in itself whilst the helicopter spins around like god knows what) you would never get the blades to level out and achieve any lift.
An ULTRA extreme case of Vortex ring!!!
Not possible
MADY
GMady
Not sure about vortex ring, if the ac has more than 30 kts of forward airspeed - bearing in mind it was coming out of an aircraft doing approx 130 kts - then no way vortex ring. Agree with the blades though, but on second thoughts what if the ac was falling nose first, ie vertical then blades would not cone. Ah then again would have monsterous flapback. All I know is wouldn't want to try it. Then again if you were in that situation you would give it a go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not sure about vortex ring, if the ac has more than 30 kts of forward airspeed - bearing in mind it was coming out of an aircraft doing approx 130 kts - then no way vortex ring. Agree with the blades though, but on second thoughts what if the ac was falling nose first, ie vertical then blades would not cone. Ah then again would have monsterous flapback. All I know is wouldn't want to try it. Then again if you were in that situation you would give it a go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Age: 75
Posts: 3,012
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A great deal of the stiffness of the blade is the centrifugal force (forgive me, Lu!) so that the blades would surely just fail at the cuff and bend upward.
The resulting landing is probably a hard one
The resulting landing is probably a hard one
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somebody here has never experienced exiting a plane before. From zero to superfast very quickly according to the math.......
Say Goodbye Blades.
USPA #1980
Say Goodbye Blades.
USPA #1980
G_MADY, there is no reason that the aircraft would nose up on exit. It will drop nose down and point at the ground like a bomb, possibly inverted.
But that scene is no less believable than a lot of other Bond aviation stuff. Ejecting from Goldfinger's jet. The turbine R22 in the train carriage. The freefall off the cliff to get into the Porter. Fighting Jaws on the roof of that Lodestar. Firing rockets from the gyrocopter. The AS350 slicing up the street in China. The jeep rolling backwards out of the Herc in Afghanistan. The zero-g hows-yer-father in Moonraker.....that could be fun. But hard to get leverage. 
But that scene is no less believable than a lot of other Bond aviation stuff. Ejecting from Goldfinger's jet. The turbine R22 in the train carriage. The freefall off the cliff to get into the Porter. Fighting Jaws on the roof of that Lodestar. Firing rockets from the gyrocopter. The AS350 slicing up the street in China. The jeep rolling backwards out of the Herc in Afghanistan. The zero-g hows-yer-father in Moonraker.....that could be fun. But hard to get leverage.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in the Sunshine State!
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a past life, I had the experiance of dropping (pushing) many things from the rear of a number of USAF aircraft, although never a helicopter.
My 30 years of helicopter experiance, both in maintenance and flying tells me, with the horizontal CG of helicopters, without some drag chute attached to the airframe some place it would tumble uncontrollably. I would bet it would start to self distruct as soon as 130+kt wind grabs doors and cowlings.
I have witnessed steel doors ripped off their hinges that were really strong and secure.
As for the blades? GONE!
As I write this I am smiling, remembering all the stupid stuff I whitnessed 35 years ago in the Air Force. And survived!
My personal best was a multi million dollar fast deploy, temp control tower. The rigging failed and it lawn darted from about 800 feet into the dirt. It looked like a smear on the ground. No injuries. I am sure some officer cought hell for it and lost his job. Back then (Jimmy Carter ) the military realy sucked!
My 30 years of helicopter experiance, both in maintenance and flying tells me, with the horizontal CG of helicopters, without some drag chute attached to the airframe some place it would tumble uncontrollably. I would bet it would start to self distruct as soon as 130+kt wind grabs doors and cowlings.
I have witnessed steel doors ripped off their hinges that were really strong and secure.
As for the blades? GONE!
As I write this I am smiling, remembering all the stupid stuff I whitnessed 35 years ago in the Air Force. And survived!
My personal best was a multi million dollar fast deploy, temp control tower. The rigging failed and it lawn darted from about 800 feet into the dirt. It looked like a smear on the ground. No injuries. I am sure some officer cought hell for it and lost his job. Back then (Jimmy Carter ) the military realy sucked!
Way too many years ago, I was involved in a discussion for an interesting project some Army Colonel thought up during a fit of wit that only the truly thick can do.
During one of my evenings out from a military hospital where I was vacationing while watching my skin grow, I ran into this fellow in the Officer's Mess bar.
He seemed an interesting chap who was involved to some extent with new concepts of airborne assault. Please note "Airborne" and not "Air Mobile"...which are two concepts with very little to do with each other.
He suggested my vast experience would be greatly appreciated should I care to volunteer for this duty, details of which he was not at liberty to discuss. (When senior officers start buying 20 year old Warrant Officer Helicopter Pilots drinks and being chummy....all sorts of huge red waving flags appear!)
I says, "Colonel, what in the world do you "Airborne" guys need with some straight leg helicopter pilots?" He said that being a mere "Leg" would not be a problem that could not be resolved by a three week holiday at Fort Benning Jump School.
After more than a few of the foaming ales....it came out that what the project was about was airdropping an OH-6A Cayuse (Hughes 500C) out the hind end of a C-130, crew to jump with it, join up with the aircraft, dump the packaging, install the blades, then fire that puppy up and do some unspecified task.
Having been around a parachute drop zone as a pilot hauling the injured and seeing the results of a typical equipment drop, I thanked the man for his beer and toddled off home.
If an airborne drop can destroy an armored vehicle....lord only knows what the helicopter would look like.
During one of my evenings out from a military hospital where I was vacationing while watching my skin grow, I ran into this fellow in the Officer's Mess bar.
He seemed an interesting chap who was involved to some extent with new concepts of airborne assault. Please note "Airborne" and not "Air Mobile"...which are two concepts with very little to do with each other.
He suggested my vast experience would be greatly appreciated should I care to volunteer for this duty, details of which he was not at liberty to discuss. (When senior officers start buying 20 year old Warrant Officer Helicopter Pilots drinks and being chummy....all sorts of huge red waving flags appear!)
I says, "Colonel, what in the world do you "Airborne" guys need with some straight leg helicopter pilots?" He said that being a mere "Leg" would not be a problem that could not be resolved by a three week holiday at Fort Benning Jump School.
After more than a few of the foaming ales....it came out that what the project was about was airdropping an OH-6A Cayuse (Hughes 500C) out the hind end of a C-130, crew to jump with it, join up with the aircraft, dump the packaging, install the blades, then fire that puppy up and do some unspecified task.
Having been around a parachute drop zone as a pilot hauling the injured and seeing the results of a typical equipment drop, I thanked the man for his beer and toddled off home.
If an airborne drop can destroy an armored vehicle....lord only knows what the helicopter would look like.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AH, the good old turbine powered R22 in the train! How did they get a jet ranger engine in there!
The lucky farmer standing beside the ferrari (didn't you see the film). A ferrari falls out the plane at the same time and lands nose down in a field (seemingly unscratched!)
The drawing (i was a little bored) and your right the helicopter would likley fall nose first (CofG on most helis would lie forward in a situation like that )
MADY
The lucky farmer standing beside the ferrari (didn't you see the film). A ferrari falls out the plane at the same time and lands nose down in a field (seemingly unscratched!)
The drawing (i was a little bored) and your right the helicopter would likley fall nose first (CofG on most helis would lie forward in a situation like that
)MADY
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Glad to see my scenerio has sparked some interest. and obviously there are a few James Bond fans out there as well. I would just like to thank you all for your comments. I didn't obviously think it was feasable justt watching all the lights on the annunciator panel going out in a row.
Just one question though, how low can the rotor speed drop that would allow recovery bearing in mind that altitude would be a limiting factor. as i have read of many accidents caused by unrecoverable loss of rotor rpm. although this normally happens at low altitudes limiting the time for recovery in situations such as mustering.
Ascend Charlie, I think it was an AS355.
Thank you again for all your comments.
John
Just one question though, how low can the rotor speed drop that would allow recovery bearing in mind that altitude would be a limiting factor. as i have read of many accidents caused by unrecoverable loss of rotor rpm. although this normally happens at low altitudes limiting the time for recovery in situations such as mustering.
The AS350 slicing up the street in China.
Thank you again for all your comments.
John
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
"Die another day"?
More like "Die TODAY!"
More like "Die TODAY!"
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most helis are a few seconds to get the lever down and save the rpms. The R22 is about a second!
Once the rpm drops, the blades cone up and produce less and less lift, and soon pass the point where you wouldn't get them down again (before hitting the ground)!
MADY
Once the rpm drops, the blades cone up and produce less and less lift, and soon pass the point where you wouldn't get them down again (before hitting the ground)!
MADY
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kings Caple, Ross-on-Wye.orPiccots End. Hertfordshire
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heli exit from C130 or similar
My firm was asked by Eon if we could exit a rotors running MD 500 from an airborne open ramp at around 110 knots. A daring 007 escape. A lot of money was on offer!
Apart from the immediate answer 'NO' we did give the situation some considerable thought later.
So let's say we got the rotors running at the maximum 500 rpm ish with nil relative air flow and pushed the machine out in the flying attitude on two supporting ramps, which then retract vertically down. Zero ASI to an instant 110 knots or so.
Well I suppose the first consideration is the area of turbulence aft of the ramp which might give some acceleration time before hitting the full RAF. At 110 knots that will certainly produce but some massive flap back the pilot might enjoy! Could he co-ordinate cyclic movement to contain the sudden flapping. Please step forward Capt Nick Lappos?
Perhaps someone has done it in a wind tunnel.
I'm not sure why I'm discussing the subject ... but it makes a change from the usual ... wouldn't you think. Any points of view for amusement?
Best wishes to all,
DRK
Apart from the immediate answer 'NO' we did give the situation some considerable thought later.
So let's say we got the rotors running at the maximum 500 rpm ish with nil relative air flow and pushed the machine out in the flying attitude on two supporting ramps, which then retract vertically down. Zero ASI to an instant 110 knots or so.
Well I suppose the first consideration is the area of turbulence aft of the ramp which might give some acceleration time before hitting the full RAF. At 110 knots that will certainly produce but some massive flap back the pilot might enjoy! Could he co-ordinate cyclic movement to contain the sudden flapping. Please step forward Capt Nick Lappos?
Perhaps someone has done it in a wind tunnel.
I'm not sure why I'm discussing the subject ... but it makes a change from the usual ... wouldn't you think. Any points of view for amusement?
Best wishes to all,
DRK