starting problems on the R44 Astro. Help ASAP
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starting problems on the R44 Astro. Help ASAP
Haw starting problems on the R44 Astro due to to much priming. The local temp is -10 Celsius and low Bat. Ned help ASAP. Haw exspiriens only on the Raven II.
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Don't sit cranking the engine for a long time.
Wait for a while, that will give the battery time to recover and the excess fuel to drain and or evaporate away.
On the next start attempt I suggest half throttle and mixture to cutoff. When the engine fires, close the throttle and put the mixture rich.
Wait for a while, that will give the battery time to recover and the excess fuel to drain and or evaporate away.
On the next start attempt I suggest half throttle and mixture to cutoff. When the engine fires, close the throttle and put the mixture rich.
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I seem to remember that for some reason something horrible happens if you start the R44 with the throttle open at all. I can't remember why; and I think it's R44 specific, and I could easily be wrong. However, maybe check before taking ShyTorque's advice...though he normally knows loads more about helicopter flying than I do. 
I haven't tried it in the R44, but in the R22, if you over-prime, leave it a minute, then put the mixture to lean, start, and when the engine fires, push the mixture to rich immediately. But don't worry, if you don't push the mixture to rich quickly enough and the engine stops, you'll have simply burned off the excess fuel, and you can now start as normal.
Done it quite a few times on the R22, and it ought to work the same on the R44.
I haven't tried it in the R44, but in the R22, if you over-prime, leave it a minute, then put the mixture to lean, start, and when the engine fires, push the mixture to rich immediately. But don't worry, if you don't push the mixture to rich quickly enough and the engine stops, you'll have simply burned off the excess fuel, and you can now start as normal.
Done it quite a few times on the R22, and it ought to work the same on the R44.
The Original Whirly
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Having read your last reply....we had a similar problem with an R22 which simply wouldn't start, and it turned out to be the mags, so maybe something needs checking out.
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Hi Pekka
Before you crank the throttle to prime the engine, lift the collective as high as it will go then open & close the throttle about 10 times.
By lifting the collective you will open the throttle butterfly, this will get the fuel right to the inlet valve and allow for easier starting.
Don’t forget to lower the collective and check the throttle is closed before turning the engine.
Before you crank the throttle to prime the engine, lift the collective as high as it will go then open & close the throttle about 10 times.
By lifting the collective you will open the throttle butterfly, this will get the fuel right to the inlet valve and allow for easier starting.
Don’t forget to lower the collective and check the throttle is closed before turning the engine.
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If it won't turn you need a battery change. By the time you have done that all the excess fuel will certainly have drained away.
Is there any advice about this in the flight manual? Always use that for the correct advice.
By the way, do be careful about flying with an almost flat battery (this can be done if you use an external power supply in a situation where you have already exhausted the battery power). If the generator fails in flight, you will lose all electrical systems very quickly indeed.
Is there any advice about this in the flight manual? Always use that for the correct advice.
By the way, do be careful about flying with an almost flat battery (this can be done if you use an external power supply in a situation where you have already exhausted the battery power). If the generator fails in flight, you will lose all electrical systems very quickly indeed.
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The bit that caught my eye was OAT -10. So it's quite cold outside.
If you have a heated hangar, put it inside for a while to warm up (or a petrol driven air heater you can point into the engine compartment for a while).
I did this is the cold of a Maryland winter once and it worked provided you also inject the fuel into the inlet manifold (as noted above) and be ready to catch the engine when it fires.
You can pump the throttle a bit during the start cycle if not catching from the initial prime but be careful.
If you have been going at it for a while you may need to put a new battery on or do a jump (only done this once..)
Finally, there has been a bad batch of batteries on the R44 fleet recently. It is a known problem and comes from manufacturer. They were truely sh 1 t batteries and lasted about 2 months from new before dying. This may be part of the cause? But the cold will be helping!
Gud tur!
h-r
If you have a heated hangar, put it inside for a while to warm up (or a petrol driven air heater you can point into the engine compartment for a while).
I did this is the cold of a Maryland winter once and it worked provided you also inject the fuel into the inlet manifold (as noted above) and be ready to catch the engine when it fires.
You can pump the throttle a bit during the start cycle if not catching from the initial prime but be careful.
If you have been going at it for a while you may need to put a new battery on or do a jump (only done this once..)
Finally, there has been a bad batch of batteries on the R44 fleet recently. It is a known problem and comes from manufacturer. They were truely sh 1 t batteries and lasted about 2 months from new before dying. This may be part of the cause? But the cold will be helping!
Gud tur!
h-r
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Some years ago I was mustering around Alice springs in mid winter some mornings were 0 to -8 , In remote areas you dint get many go's at starting and we put approx 150mils of fuel strait down the air intake and started cranking with mixture out and when it kicks push it in and it was very affective it was not common practice only on cold mornings.
It is a number of years when I last flew an R22 and never have flown the 44 but Whirlybird is probably referring to the retard points that provide a shower of sparks to all pots on start if its turning over and will not kick the retard points that you start on are probably U/S, you just pull the retard lead from the left mag if my memory is right and it will start on the mags but talk to your engineer before any of these practices.
If your battery is all but flat be careful you don't boil it when you get going.
It is a number of years when I last flew an R22 and never have flown the 44 but Whirlybird is probably referring to the retard points that provide a shower of sparks to all pots on start if its turning over and will not kick the retard points that you start on are probably U/S, you just pull the retard lead from the left mag if my memory is right and it will start on the mags but talk to your engineer before any of these practices.
If your battery is all but flat be careful you don't boil it when you get going.
In the old 47G-4A (Lyc VO-540 with a carb) in very cold weather (-5C), sometimes upon start attempt the engine would fire for just a bit and then die. That small bit of heat would cause condensation within the cylinders and then the plugs would ice over. At least, that's what the mechanics said was happening. Whatever, the bastard would definitely not start after that, even if you cranked until the batt was flat. GPU didn't help. The *ONLY* solution was to bring the thing inside and apply some heat. We learnt that we had but *one* shot at getting the priming/throttle position "just right" or we'd be repeating the process all over again.
Cold weather, ugh. Brrr. Thank God they are distant...very distant...memories.
Cold weather, ugh. Brrr. Thank God they are distant...very distant...memories.
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Do this simple check
- As the carb is situated underneath the engine it is not possible to prime the cylinders with neat fuel therefore once you see fuel coming out of the bottom of the air box then this is primed enough, as, further pumping will only result in more fuel spill (which is not what you want) as this will feed a flame in the unlikely event of a backfire.
- Once you turn the key to start, this action over-rides the normal points in each mag and brings into play a second pair of points in the left mag only (which is pilot side as the engine is mounted arse first). These points are slightly retarded to the normal ones and are used solely for starting, they feed the three top plugs on one bank and the three bottom plugs on the opposite bank.
- The second the engine fires the key is left to spring back to both (which in turn brings both mags back into play via there normal points) fireing two plugs per cylinder in an advanced normal condition.
- A quick way to test whether you have an electrical fault is to squirt a little easystart into the air inlet (preferably while the engine is being cranked) as this will always fire up the engine mixture in or out and if it doesn't you can be pretty certain its electrical. (Do not routinely use this method for starting).
- Almost certainly
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Pekka
Magneto's - ON
I have experienced this in a C-172 with a carb.
What I did was I switched the magneto's OFF, pulled the mixture to Idle cut-off, opened the throttle half way and cranked the engine for a few revolutions.
After that, pick up the start checklist and start over again. It usually fired up but if your R44 doesn't you should check your magneto's as Whirlybird said.
In the C-172 you could also give a little fuel while cranking by milking the throttle but just a little. I am not sure if this is an ok procedure in the R44 though?
In you position I recommend that you recharge the battery and drink a lot of coffee while waiting.
It is great to see how fast people here react to this cry for help! Great work people.
Magneto's - ON
I have experienced this in a C-172 with a carb.
What I did was I switched the magneto's OFF, pulled the mixture to Idle cut-off, opened the throttle half way and cranked the engine for a few revolutions.
After that, pick up the start checklist and start over again. It usually fired up but if your R44 doesn't you should check your magneto's as Whirlybird said.
In the C-172 you could also give a little fuel while cranking by milking the throttle but just a little. I am not sure if this is an ok procedure in the R44 though?
In you position I recommend that you recharge the battery and drink a lot of coffee while waiting.
It is great to see how fast people here react to this cry for help! Great work people.
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Pre-heating as previously mentioned is probably the way to go I'd say given the temp. If that doesn't work prime until you see the fuel drip, rub two (2) sticks together while singing praise to the 100LL gods, and then try starting with a fresh battery.
All the best.
All the best.
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I'm not sure about those cold temps but whenever I started an R-44 for the first time during the day I would always leave the mixture full rich after the prime, hit the starter and it would fire almost immediately. Pulling the mixture lean and then hitting the starter would almost always result in a prolonged crank, pushing the mixture in frantically as the engine fired and maybe it would start after a few coughs, maybe it wouldn't....then try again
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The starter vibrator died on a friends R44 Astro and as it was near end of life we just used a good squirt of "damp start" (Ether based) into the air intake! Worked a treat, started within a half turn every time.
Not sure I'd do this on one that had years of life remaining though as it's unknown what a regular dosing of that would do to the cylinders, but every now and then probably isn't an issue.
Not sure I'd do this on one that had years of life remaining though as it's unknown what a regular dosing of that would do to the cylinders, but every now and then probably isn't an issue.
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[QUOTE=Twiddle;3095344]The starter vibrator died on a friends R44 Astro and as it was near end of life we just used a good squirt of "damp start" (Ether based) into the air intake! Worked a treat, started within a half turn every time.
The problem with using "easy start" is the engine gets addicted to it, and after time will not start without it, so defo would not recommend it unless as you say its at the end of its life.
The problem with using "easy start" is the engine gets addicted to it, and after time will not start without it, so defo would not recommend it unless as you say its at the end of its life.