Civilian Helicopter down in Iraq
Thread Starter
Bodyguards perhaps but Mercenary does not accurately describe their status.
They are doing "protective" work and not engaging in combat as "soldiers".
The line between mercenaries and not, is a bit blurred in this case.
One could suggest an all voluteer military constitutes a mercenary force vice a citizen army that is manned by conscripts in addition to volunteers.
They are doing "protective" work and not engaging in combat as "soldiers".
The line between mercenaries and not, is a bit blurred in this case.
One could suggest an all voluteer military constitutes a mercenary force vice a citizen army that is manned by conscripts in addition to volunteers.
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Sasless said, " They are doing "protective" work and not engaging in combat as "soldiers"."
I don't believe that for a single microsecond, SAS!
Unless those Blackwater yahoos with scope rifles on the rooftops that are laughing and shooting are plugging parking violations into their victims....
I don't believe that for a single microsecond, SAS!
Unless those Blackwater yahoos with scope rifles on the rooftops that are laughing and shooting are plugging parking violations into their victims....
and your point?
During our war of independance, the British purchased the services of 30,000 German Soldiers for $150,000, called "Hessians". The total sent was 30,067 from 1776 to 1782.
During our war of independance, the British purchased the services of 30,000 German Soldiers for $150,000, called "Hessians". The total sent was 30,067 from 1776 to 1782.
Thread Starter
It would appear to me that as long as the Private Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan are perfoming defensive tasks protecting persons, assets, the like, and are subject to US Military law as they are now.....they in no way fit the legal definitions of a "Mercenary". Thus, to call them that, is incorrect.
If the boys were laying on a roof top and offing insurgents who posed a threat to them or what/who they were assigned to protect then they were well within the guide lines.
You may not like that situation but that has nothing to do with the law.
A true Mercenary owes his loyalty to his pay check and is for sale to the highest bidder regardless of idealolgy.
You want to suggest to some of the Blackwater guys they could make more money working for the insurgents? I would pay a lot of money to see that ass whupping!
If the boys were laying on a roof top and offing insurgents who posed a threat to them or what/who they were assigned to protect then they were well within the guide lines.
You may not like that situation but that has nothing to do with the law.
A true Mercenary owes his loyalty to his pay check and is for sale to the highest bidder regardless of idealolgy.
You want to suggest to some of the Blackwater guys they could make more money working for the insurgents? I would pay a lot of money to see that ass whupping!
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I think by now everybody has seen the videos on youtube that Nick mentioned of the blackwater guys sitting on rooftops picking people off with 50 cal rifles, laughing and having a goodtime like they are playing a video game. My question is, how can they kill people, if nobody is shooting at them? Aren't there rules of engagement?
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Letter from the planet Agnostic
Who closed the [ The PPRuNing of Mankind: ] thread? 
There is no way to add a
to Somalia.
In addition, another may be required. The Neo-Con propaganda about Iran sounds the same as the propaganda about Iraq before its invasion.
There is no way to add a
to Somalia.In addition, another
may be required. The Neo-Con propaganda about Iran sounds the same as the propaganda about Iraq before its invasion.
Thread Starter
Which video is that where the shooters with the .50 cal rifles are Blackwater staff?
Granted the .50 cal is very effective in that role....similar effect to potting Praire Dogs with a .30-338. They grow to be nine feet long when hit about navel high. (the Praire Dogs that is....)
Read up on the capability of a Barratt .50 caliber rifle using Raufoss rounds....pretty scary stuff if you are on the receiving end of it. A Canadian sniper scored a hit on a Taliban rifleman at a range over 2000 meters.
Granted the .50 cal is very effective in that role....similar effect to potting Praire Dogs with a .30-338. They grow to be nine feet long when hit about navel high. (the Praire Dogs that is....)
Read up on the capability of a Barratt .50 caliber rifle using Raufoss rounds....pretty scary stuff if you are on the receiving end of it. A Canadian sniper scored a hit on a Taliban rifleman at a range over 2000 meters.
Last edited by SASless; 31st Jan 2007 at 23:23.
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Actually, it is a scope equipped 7.62mm, but the targets are real enough, and the banter as the shots are made is chilling. Mercenaries, for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZDcTDetTS4
and "Iraq for Sale":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUEULWEP9c
Main Entry: 1mer·ce·nary
Pronunciation: 'm&r-s&-"ner-E, -ne-rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nar·ies
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin mercenarius, irregular from merced-, merces wages -- more at MERCY
: one that serves merely for wages; especially : a soldier hired into foreign service
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZDcTDetTS4
and "Iraq for Sale":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJUEULWEP9c
Main Entry: 1mer·ce·nary
Pronunciation: 'm&r-s&-"ner-E, -ne-rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -nar·ies
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin mercenarius, irregular from merced-, merces wages -- more at MERCY
: one that serves merely for wages; especially : a soldier hired into foreign service
Thread Starter
Nick,
Perhaps you could also cite the various laws that govern the use of non-military persons in combat and show how the various Geneva Conventions, US Federal Law, and DOD regulations pertain to contractors and their employees. A dictionary definition is fine but does not have weight of law. You will find the recent decision to require the contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan to comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) was intended to both facilitate their use and also to provide a means whereby violations of the UCMJ and Iraqi Law can be prosecuted.
As an old Cobra Jock....I am sure you understand the concept of a target rich environment and the reaction that provokes in a gunship pilot. I would suggest those guys with the .308 or .338 magnum rifles are no different.
As someone once said...."if you find yourself in a fair fight....you planned it all wrong!" (or words to that effect. )
Perhaps you could also cite the various laws that govern the use of non-military persons in combat and show how the various Geneva Conventions, US Federal Law, and DOD regulations pertain to contractors and their employees. A dictionary definition is fine but does not have weight of law. You will find the recent decision to require the contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan to comply with the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) was intended to both facilitate their use and also to provide a means whereby violations of the UCMJ and Iraqi Law can be prosecuted.
As an old Cobra Jock....I am sure you understand the concept of a target rich environment and the reaction that provokes in a gunship pilot. I would suggest those guys with the .308 or .338 magnum rifles are no different.
As someone once said...."if you find yourself in a fair fight....you planned it all wrong!" (or words to that effect. )
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Gatvol
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Dave
Whats the point? Anywhere the U.S. troops go they use private contractors for Something. And yes private contractors make as much profit as they can. Even in the U.S. when the Air Force go on maunuvers, shall we say the Ramada Inn is a private Contractor....
Unlike some of the fine places I stayed in the Marines or the Army.
Whats the point? Anywhere the U.S. troops go they use private contractors for Something. And yes private contractors make as much profit as they can. Even in the U.S. when the Air Force go on maunuvers, shall we say the Ramada Inn is a private Contractor....
Unlike some of the fine places I stayed in the Marines or the Army.
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The bigger picture.
My argument is that a few people, called Neo-Cons, are becoming excessively wealthy, satisfying their 'Need for Greed'.
This wealth has come by taking $800.00 from every American, man, woman, and child. What did Mr. and Mrs. America get for their money? Nothing!
This wealth has come by taking $800.00 from every American, man, woman, and child. What did Mr. and Mrs. America get for their money? Nothing!
Thread Starter
Dave,
Civilians form a very large part of our military force structure. Many reasons cause that to be so. The size of the military is limited to numbers of troops, equipment and the like. In order to have a flexibility to scale up or down, civilian contractors allow for that and are actually very cheap as compared to maintaining large numbers of troops all who require pay, housing, medical/dental care, pensions and the like.
Our military has wisely accepted the proposition that general trades manning can very easily be taken care of by hiring contractors when operational committments require and thus are able to field more combat arms troops and equipment.
Halliburton, the favored spear catcher for critics of those on the left....is just one of many corporations that vie for those contracts. They in turn hire folks on contract rather than as permanent employees. That way they in turn minimize the cost of supplying workers and equipment.
Is there a rip off of the taxpayer in this system? Probably....but what government operation is not a rip off? How many trillion dollars has been spent on welfare and anti-poverty programs in the United States with no visible change in the numbers of poor folk?
I notice of late, that some folks of a particular political view are grandly ignoring the Billion or so dollars worth of fraud, waste, and mis-management in FEMA's Katrina operations. That outcry only comes when someone thinks another party is getting rich at their expense. That shoe changes from foot to foot as you well know.
Civilians form a very large part of our military force structure. Many reasons cause that to be so. The size of the military is limited to numbers of troops, equipment and the like. In order to have a flexibility to scale up or down, civilian contractors allow for that and are actually very cheap as compared to maintaining large numbers of troops all who require pay, housing, medical/dental care, pensions and the like.
Our military has wisely accepted the proposition that general trades manning can very easily be taken care of by hiring contractors when operational committments require and thus are able to field more combat arms troops and equipment.
Halliburton, the favored spear catcher for critics of those on the left....is just one of many corporations that vie for those contracts. They in turn hire folks on contract rather than as permanent employees. That way they in turn minimize the cost of supplying workers and equipment.
Is there a rip off of the taxpayer in this system? Probably....but what government operation is not a rip off? How many trillion dollars has been spent on welfare and anti-poverty programs in the United States with no visible change in the numbers of poor folk?
I notice of late, that some folks of a particular political view are grandly ignoring the Billion or so dollars worth of fraud, waste, and mis-management in FEMA's Katrina operations. That outcry only comes when someone thinks another party is getting rich at their expense. That shoe changes from foot to foot as you well know.
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SASless,
You appear to be under the illusion that the Neo-Con CEOs are there to serve Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth. Americans are there to serve the Neo-Cons. The large companies are only vehicles for transfering wealth to the CEOs.
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they sending more and more work off-shore?
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they allowing millions of low-cost South American workers into the States?
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they producing more terrorists then they eliminate?
Thing big. The Neo-Con CEOs have little interest in America. They are thinking globally.
We had this discussion a few years ago. As before, it's not weapons of mass destruction. It's not bad rulers. It's not oil. It's global economic domination.
If you think that this is done for Mr. and Mrs. America, then ask yourself why many Neo-Cons hold dual citizenship, such as American and Israeli, and why many more hold offshore bank accounts and foreign residencies.
Your stock portfolio might be going up in value, however this value is in American dollars and the American dollar is going down in comparison to other global currencies ~ thanks to the Neo-Cons.
Dave
You appear to be under the illusion that the Neo-Con CEOs are there to serve Americans. Nothing could be further from the truth. Americans are there to serve the Neo-Cons. The large companies are only vehicles for transfering wealth to the CEOs.
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they sending more and more work off-shore?
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they allowing millions of low-cost South American workers into the States?
If the Neo-Con CEOs are interested in Americans, why are they producing more terrorists then they eliminate?
Thing big. The Neo-Con CEOs have little interest in America. They are thinking globally.
We had this discussion a few years ago. As before, it's not weapons of mass destruction. It's not bad rulers. It's not oil. It's global economic domination.
If you think that this is done for Mr. and Mrs. America, then ask yourself why many Neo-Cons hold dual citizenship, such as American and Israeli, and why many more hold offshore bank accounts and foreign residencies.
Your stock portfolio might be going up in value, however this value is in American dollars and the American dollar is going down in comparison to other global currencies ~ thanks to the Neo-Cons.
Dave
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The fastest and most advanced helicopters and VTOL's are sold to the military.
It seems to me that helicopter sales would increase in wars.
And any development to increase the performance of helos would used by the military. Sikorsky's first helo was sold to the Army, without a war now and then, there would be little need for advanced helicopters.
It seems to me that helicopter sales would increase in wars.
And any development to increase the performance of helos would used by the military. Sikorsky's first helo was sold to the Army, without a war now and then, there would be little need for advanced helicopters.