Alcohol and Pilots
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
T'is a slur. We do read the other forums! Feel sorry for the guy. I can't help feeling we've probably all known someone with a problem. Its bad when it spills over into the workplace, when that workplace is a cockpit god help us. the media love to show us up when they can.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Here and there...
Age: 58
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow! What a bunch of T#@ts!
I was gobsmacked by the level of absolute vitriol from some of the guys there. One of them even had the gall to admit that he had been over the limit, but still the poor bloke who was the subject of the thread was getting lined up for execution.
BLESSED ARE THE SELF RIGHTEOUS!!
Kudos to the two guys who posted their experiences!!!
An eye opener for me.
UL.
BLESSED ARE THE SELF RIGHTEOUS!!
Kudos to the two guys who posted their experiences!!!
An eye opener for me.
UL.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Norwich, CT USA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was dumb enough to go and read that stuff, good grief, I would not want to be in any aircraft with them. Biggest mud slingers in general have the same problems if not worst. Nobody is perfect.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know I am generalising and probably stereotyping here, but I am sure that many of you may have experienced the following.
Why is it that so many of the younger and newer pilots need to impress us with their drinking abilities. So many of these aviators "need" to quench their thirst right from knock off time to late in the evening, by which time these people are well over the legal driving limit.
Why do they feel the need to brag about their next day's flying performance while they were "so hung over"?
Why do they feel the need to brag about who outdrank who?
Having questioned some of these aviators about their requirements and responsibility about drinking and flying, without fail I will receive the "I am not flying until 0800 so I am ok"
Do these aviators not understand the concept of the alcohol rule?
These aviators do not have the maturity to control their drinking and bragging habits, yet are allowed to control a complex piece of machinery.
Why is this culture allowed to continue, with many more experienced pilots laughing, thus encouraging, rather than attempting to curb these actions.
Australia, bring on random drug and alcohol testing.
Why is it that so many of the younger and newer pilots need to impress us with their drinking abilities. So many of these aviators "need" to quench their thirst right from knock off time to late in the evening, by which time these people are well over the legal driving limit.
Why do they feel the need to brag about their next day's flying performance while they were "so hung over"?
Why do they feel the need to brag about who outdrank who?
Having questioned some of these aviators about their requirements and responsibility about drinking and flying, without fail I will receive the "I am not flying until 0800 so I am ok"
Do these aviators not understand the concept of the alcohol rule?
These aviators do not have the maturity to control their drinking and bragging habits, yet are allowed to control a complex piece of machinery.
Why is this culture allowed to continue, with many more experienced pilots laughing, thus encouraging, rather than attempting to curb these actions.
Australia, bring on random drug and alcohol testing.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 5,197
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Australia, bring on random drug and alcohol testing.
Is there a problem in Australia of aircraft crashing because pilots were under the influence of alcohol?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if that was a bona fide question or a sly remark.
Anyway, are you against it?
Surely the contents of the attached thread and maybe some personal encounters would suggest it is warranted.
Do we always need to be reactive, rather than proactive...
Anyway, are you against it?
Surely the contents of the attached thread and maybe some personal encounters would suggest it is warranted.
Do we always need to be reactive, rather than proactive...
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Heliport.
Is there an ATSB investigator that could enlighten us on whether drugs and/or alcohol are a contributing factor in any aviation accidents.
Regards
Is there an ATSB investigator that could enlighten us on whether drugs and/or alcohol are a contributing factor in any aviation accidents.
Regards
Hi all,
interesting reading all around.
Some weired pilots around - especial fixed wingers......
I had my alcohol-experience during RN flight training. Land away - planed with two nights - so I drank a lot on the first...
Next morning I heard "Come on boy, we need to fly back."
I said, I'm hungover but my my Instructor said - he's in charge and he isn't.
And he showed me how bad it is to fly hangover - I had to fly, part of it in IMC the bastard!
But it thought me a lesson - no drink and fly.
We're professionals - and alcohol could be drunk - but not if you have to fly.
Nothing against one or two eveneing beers or one or two redwine (glass, not bottle) if you have a good nights sleep before the next job - but party until 6 to go flying at 8 - is not only forbidden, it's unprofessional, too.
Greetings
"Flying Bull"
interesting reading all around.
Some weired pilots around - especial fixed wingers......
I had my alcohol-experience during RN flight training. Land away - planed with two nights - so I drank a lot on the first...
Next morning I heard "Come on boy, we need to fly back."
I said, I'm hungover but my my Instructor said - he's in charge and he isn't.
And he showed me how bad it is to fly hangover - I had to fly, part of it in IMC the bastard!
But it thought me a lesson - no drink and fly.
We're professionals - and alcohol could be drunk - but not if you have to fly.
Nothing against one or two eveneing beers or one or two redwine (glass, not bottle) if you have a good nights sleep before the next job - but party until 6 to go flying at 8 - is not only forbidden, it's unprofessional, too.
Greetings
"Flying Bull"
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may find this amazing, but more Helicopter accidents are caused by Sober Pilots than Drunks.
Northwest Airlines has a proven example of Pilots over the limit who skillfully made a few Instrument approaches only to be "outed" because of AIA (Alcohol Induced Attitude).
Back to the good old days..........No Drinking within 50' of the Aircraft.
Northwest Airlines has a proven example of Pilots over the limit who skillfully made a few Instrument approaches only to be "outed" because of AIA (Alcohol Induced Attitude).
Back to the good old days..........No Drinking within 50' of the Aircraft.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
asara
I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm against random drug and alcohol testing. I'd take a different view if I thought there was a need to do so in the interests of flight safety; I don't. (See below.)
Would you include all professions/jobs where a mistake might lead to death or serious injury of others? eg Surgeons, doctors, pharmacists? Train drivers, bus drivers? All public transport drivers?
Lawyers? Lives aren't literally at risk, but a mistake by a lawyer can have the effect of ruining someone's life.
Where would you draw the line?
Nothing I've read or heard suggests to me that random breath-testing of pilots is warranted. Of course I've heard stories, but I've seen no evidence that it is or ever has been a flight safety problem.
This topic has come up previously in threads relating to airline pilots. Those who claim there's a problem have been challenged to come up with examples of accidents where there is evidence that a pilot was under the influence of alcohol. From memory, they've come up with a couple of certains and a few possibles - from all the millions of miles flown every year since accident investigations began and records were kept.
Of course there are occasions when we should be proactive, but there should IMHO be some basis for fearing an accident might happen unless we take action to prevent it. I've seen no evidence that there is any basis for such a fear.
FL
I don't feel strongly about it, but I'm against random drug and alcohol testing. I'd take a different view if I thought there was a need to do so in the interests of flight safety; I don't. (See below.)
Would you include all professions/jobs where a mistake might lead to death or serious injury of others? eg Surgeons, doctors, pharmacists? Train drivers, bus drivers? All public transport drivers?
Lawyers? Lives aren't literally at risk, but a mistake by a lawyer can have the effect of ruining someone's life.
Where would you draw the line?
Nothing I've read or heard suggests to me that random breath-testing of pilots is warranted. Of course I've heard stories, but I've seen no evidence that it is or ever has been a flight safety problem.
This topic has come up previously in threads relating to airline pilots. Those who claim there's a problem have been challenged to come up with examples of accidents where there is evidence that a pilot was under the influence of alcohol. From memory, they've come up with a couple of certains and a few possibles - from all the millions of miles flown every year since accident investigations began and records were kept.
Of course there are occasions when we should be proactive, but there should IMHO be some basis for fearing an accident might happen unless we take action to prevent it. I've seen no evidence that there is any basis for such a fear.
FL
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Here and there...
Age: 58
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the bases where my company operates has a policy where EVERYONE gets to blow before they start work!
Extreme? The oil company seems to think not.
Forward thinking or Paranoid? I think the jury is out on that one.
I am not sure whether I would be happy with that being enforced on me, but having said that, I do see the thinking behind it.
Extreme? The oil company seems to think not.
Forward thinking or Paranoid? I think the jury is out on that one.
I am not sure whether I would be happy with that being enforced on me, but having said that, I do see the thinking behind it.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"One of the bases where my company operates has a policy where EVERYONE gets to blow before they start work! "
You may wish to clarify this....You mean on a daily basis, first hire or just something to show your loyalty to the Boss....
You may wish to clarify this....You mean on a daily basis, first hire or just something to show your loyalty to the Boss....
You may find this amazing, but more Helicopter accidents are caused by Sober Pilots than Drunks.
Northwest Airlines has a proven example of Pilots over the limit who skillfully made a few Instrument approaches only to be "outed" because of AIA (Alcohol Induced Attitude).
Back to the good old days..........No Drinking within 50' of the Aircraft.
Northwest Airlines has a proven example of Pilots over the limit who skillfully made a few Instrument approaches only to be "outed" because of AIA (Alcohol Induced Attitude).
Back to the good old days..........No Drinking within 50' of the Aircraft.
2. Did the Pilot made the approaches or the Autopilot????
skadi
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G'day Flying Lawyer,
I was a bit concerned at your comment "Of course I've heard stories, but I've seen no evidence that it is or ever has been a flight safety problem", so I checked the ATSB (Australia) website and found a report of which the following is an extract
I must say that I was surprised to read that drug and alcohol related accidents accounted for only 0.4% of accidents, and it is a figure I find hard to believe.
Surely this cannot be correct and actually question their methodology. As far as I am aware (please correct if I am wrong) there is no requirement for Blood Alcohol testing after an accident (in Australia), and if there is I suggest that it either may not be routinely performed or performed at a time where the persons Blood Alcohol level no longer becomes a factor.
With so many Alcohol related road accidents and other acts of stupidity it is difficult to believe that alcohol cannot be a problem in the aviation industry.
Regards
I was a bit concerned at your comment "Of course I've heard stories, but I've seen no evidence that it is or ever has been a flight safety problem", so I checked the ATSB (Australia) website and found a report of which the following is an extract
Drug and alcohol use in pilots can have a detrimental impact on aviation safety. Important cognitive and psychomotor functions necessary for safe operation of an aircraft can be significantly impaired by drugs and alcohol. The purpose of this study was to determine the prevalence and nature of drug and alcohol-related accidents and incidents in Australian civil aviation. A search of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau’s accident and incident database was conducted for all occurrences in which drugs or alcohol were recorded between 1 January 1975 and 31 March 2006. There were 36 drug and alcohol-related events (31 accidents and five incidents). The majority of these occurrences were related to alcohol (22 occurrences). The drugs identified included prescription drugs, over-the-counter medications and illegal drugs (including heroin and cannabis). Drug and alcohol events accounted for only 0.02 per cent of all the occurrences listed on the Australian Transport Safety Bureau’s database. Drug and alcohol-related accidents accounted for 0.4 per cent of all accidents. Furthermore, 89 per cent of drug and alcohol occurrences resulted in an accident, with the proportion of these 32 occurrences that resulted in an accident quite high, at 86.5 per cent. Fatal accidents accounted for 67 per cent of all drug and alcohol occurrences. The results of this study show that the prevalence of drug and alcohol-related accidents and incidents in Australian civil aviation is very low, but that the related accident and fatality rates are high. The planned introduction of a mandatory drug and alcohol testing program into the Australian civil aviation industry will provide a more prescriptive approach to the issue of drug and alcohol use in pilots. Education and training remain important elements of an overall approach to reducing the significant impact of drug and alcohol use on flight safety.
(http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...60169_001.aspx)
(http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...60169_001.aspx)
Surely this cannot be correct and actually question their methodology. As far as I am aware (please correct if I am wrong) there is no requirement for Blood Alcohol testing after an accident (in Australia), and if there is I suggest that it either may not be routinely performed or performed at a time where the persons Blood Alcohol level no longer becomes a factor.
With so many Alcohol related road accidents and other acts of stupidity it is difficult to believe that alcohol cannot be a problem in the aviation industry.
Regards
Last edited by asara; 17th Dec 2006 at 09:35. Reason: poor choice of word