JAA ATPL/CPL(H) Ground School / Distance Learning
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 608
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From: Land of damp and drizzle
As has been mentioned above, I did my ATPL theory with CAPT a few years back, and I heartily recommend them. I have no direct experience of Bristol (other than using their question bank), but from chatting to other candidates before and after exams, it seems that they tend more towards the 'memorise the answer to these questions' approach, rather than getting the student to actually understand the material. Of course, if you're a helicopter pilot studying a bunch of fixed-wing specific stuff, that doesn't help either.
There are more differences between the interim and helicopter-specific courses than you might think, although there are obviously a lot of similarities. In addition to the obvious PoF, the M&B is done on a helicopter rather than a 737 (although the principles are basically the same), and the Nav papers don't include stuff about flying over the Atlantic, for example. There is a lot of material to get through, so making sure that as much of it is as interesting to you as possible will make the whole experience a whole lot less painful.
In terms of personal attention and getting on courses, etc. you're probably better off picking the smaller school, as there's less of a factory atmosphere (I guess). All I can say here is that I had no trouble getting the dates I wanted, and I don't believe this is a problem with either school.
You're paying for more than just the notes; you're paying for a structured course, with progress tests etc., as well as personal help should you need it. You're also paying for several brush-up courses to help prepare you for the exams. And, given the cost of most rotary training, a few thousand pounds isn't really that much. Certainly, I've found the CAPT notes useful well beyond the course, and I wasn't interested in selling them on when I was done (they had some useful stuff for when I started my IR, for example); this is an indication of the quality, in my opinion.
The route I would suggest is to sign up for a course with CAPT, then just before you write exams, get a question bank subscription from Bristol (this used to cost £50 for 3 months access). CAPT will support you going as fast as you like, and if you have the time and determination, you could probably blaze through quite quickly.
If you have any specific questions you'd like to ask about how I found stuff, feel free to msg me.
There are more differences between the interim and helicopter-specific courses than you might think, although there are obviously a lot of similarities. In addition to the obvious PoF, the M&B is done on a helicopter rather than a 737 (although the principles are basically the same), and the Nav papers don't include stuff about flying over the Atlantic, for example. There is a lot of material to get through, so making sure that as much of it is as interesting to you as possible will make the whole experience a whole lot less painful.
In terms of personal attention and getting on courses, etc. you're probably better off picking the smaller school, as there's less of a factory atmosphere (I guess). All I can say here is that I had no trouble getting the dates I wanted, and I don't believe this is a problem with either school.
You're paying for more than just the notes; you're paying for a structured course, with progress tests etc., as well as personal help should you need it. You're also paying for several brush-up courses to help prepare you for the exams. And, given the cost of most rotary training, a few thousand pounds isn't really that much. Certainly, I've found the CAPT notes useful well beyond the course, and I wasn't interested in selling them on when I was done (they had some useful stuff for when I started my IR, for example); this is an indication of the quality, in my opinion.
The route I would suggest is to sign up for a course with CAPT, then just before you write exams, get a question bank subscription from Bristol (this used to cost £50 for 3 months access). CAPT will support you going as fast as you like, and if you have the time and determination, you could probably blaze through quite quickly.
If you have any specific questions you'd like to ask about how I found stuff, feel free to msg me.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
and I don't believe this is a problem with either school.
I went to Atlantic (who went bust a while ago) for the training as they offered more flexibility (paco's course had not been approved at that time). This was also an interim course and I can assure you, if you've not flown fixed-wing and have little or no interest in doing so, the interim course is quite tediously tricky; AGK especially.
Cheers
Whirls
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Canada
A couple more questions...
1) Does anyone know if CAPTs ATPL notes are exactly what is contained in the "Professional Pilots Handbook" by Phil Croucher or are they a bit more in-depth/elaborate?
2) If a guy sits the ATPL(h) interim exams, I'm led to believe he'd only have to sit 2 other exams to get the exam credits for an ATPL(a). Is this correct? If a guy was to take the helicopter specific exams would he then have to sit all 14 ATPL(a) exams to get the fixed wing exam credits?
1) Does anyone know if CAPTs ATPL notes are exactly what is contained in the "Professional Pilots Handbook" by Phil Croucher or are they a bit more in-depth/elaborate?
2) If a guy sits the ATPL(h) interim exams, I'm led to believe he'd only have to sit 2 other exams to get the exam credits for an ATPL(a). Is this correct? If a guy was to take the helicopter specific exams would he then have to sit all 14 ATPL(a) exams to get the fixed wing exam credits?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
That book is the CAPT notes and vice versa. As I said, we cut the cr*p. new version should be out in the new year for the new syllabus.
Your second assumption is correct - although we are also approved for the dark side, sorry, fixed wing.
You would then need to do a bridging course. We did apply to do a fixed wing interim course, but they said no.
Phil
Your second assumption is correct - although we are also approved for the dark side, sorry, fixed wing.
You would then need to do a bridging course. We did apply to do a fixed wing interim course, but they said no. Phil
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Using Professional Helicopter Pilot Studies Book...
I recently bought a copy of Phil Crouchers 'Professional Helicopter Pilot Studies' book.
It seems to be a great wealth of information and is apparently "based on the modular self-study program for the JAA ATPL(H) examinations provided by Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training".
Does anyone know if it's possible to:
(or does anyone know someone who has done this...)
a) Study the ATPL course using just the 'Professional Helicopter Pilot Studies' book
b) Buy the charts, student manual etc. seperately
c) Use the Bristol online question bank and other online resources
d) Attend the classroom sessions at CAPT
It seems to be a great wealth of information and is apparently "based on the modular self-study program for the JAA ATPL(H) examinations provided by Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training".
Does anyone know if it's possible to:
(or does anyone know someone who has done this...)
a) Study the ATPL course using just the 'Professional Helicopter Pilot Studies' book
b) Buy the charts, student manual etc. seperately
c) Use the Bristol online question bank and other online resources
d) Attend the classroom sessions at CAPT
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: england
Decided to put myself through the CPL H misery, I already have 3000 hours of instruction behind me through the PPL licence prior to the 1999 commercial deadline. Just looking for the easiest route. I dont think the CPL licence will change the way I fly but it will allow me to gain the examiner rating which is currently not available to a PPL. Can anyone point me in the right direction. I will have to do the home study option
Thanks
Thanks
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: sussex
HI,
I have bought a copy of Phil Crouchers book too and found it very nicely written, its helped me get through NAV which I did very well in & AGK Principles of Flight which after reading three times through I scrapped a pass. My only critisim of the book is that it makes references to colours in the charts, i.e it will say something like see the red line blah blah.. but all the illistrations are in black and white sadly. Otherwise I'm very happy with it, its written in a plain english using simple terms.
I am though wondering if its got enough in it to get me through performance and planning and would be interested to know if anyone else has used it and passed that exam?
Or can suggest any other good reading for the Flight Performance and Planning exam ?
I have bought a copy of Phil Crouchers book too and found it very nicely written, its helped me get through NAV which I did very well in & AGK Principles of Flight which after reading three times through I scrapped a pass. My only critisim of the book is that it makes references to colours in the charts, i.e it will say something like see the red line blah blah.. but all the illistrations are in black and white sadly. Otherwise I'm very happy with it, its written in a plain english using simple terms.
I am though wondering if its got enough in it to get me through performance and planning and would be interested to know if anyone else has used it and passed that exam?
Or can suggest any other good reading for the Flight Performance and Planning exam ?
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
hi skipz - the book is meant to be read in colour. The bw version is more of a service to readers so is not the best version for visuals. As you have no doubt already found, to do fpm and perf, you will also need to read the law and met chapters, as we do not repeat ourselves.
Are you signed on to a school already or are you exempt?
phil
Are you signed on to a school already or are you exempt?
phil
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
From: Land of damp and drizzle
You can pass all the exams using only the CAPT book. I know this, because that's how I passed them! Of course, having the CAPT instructors handy to answer the odd question speeds things up, and I definately recommend the Bristol question bank for final exam prep.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Isn't It Obvious?
A.T.P.L[H] E.A.S.A Courses?
Good afternoon.
I hope you don't mind my picking a few brains here but I've come to a dead end whilst searching Google.
I want to get the 14 A.T.P.L theory exams over and done with only I cannot find a school in the U.K willing to take on any Helicopter students right now as the ground school courses are all 6 months long and the problem/reason they've stopped enrolling what with E.A.S.A arriving April 2012.
F.T.O's are unwilling to take the chance of any student failing any of the exams before the final deadline of March 2012 before the change over.
The thing is, I cannot find any F.T.O that has an E.A.S.A A.T.P.L in motion/designed.
Bristow's say they will not have a course in place until Autumn 2012.
Any advice/help greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
M.L
I hope you don't mind my picking a few brains here but I've come to a dead end whilst searching Google.
I want to get the 14 A.T.P.L theory exams over and done with only I cannot find a school in the U.K willing to take on any Helicopter students right now as the ground school courses are all 6 months long and the problem/reason they've stopped enrolling what with E.A.S.A arriving April 2012.
F.T.O's are unwilling to take the chance of any student failing any of the exams before the final deadline of March 2012 before the change over.
The thing is, I cannot find any F.T.O that has an E.A.S.A A.T.P.L in motion/designed.
Bristow's say they will not have a course in place until Autumn 2012.
Any advice/help greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
M.L
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Likes: 4
From: In the mountains
have you tried Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training - ATPL(H) ..?
As far as I know Phil is the only helicopter specific ATPL in the EU where you won't have to learn about planks......
As far as I know Phil is the only helicopter specific ATPL in the EU where you won't have to learn about planks......
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
It would have been nice if you'd PM'd me
a) as well, and
b) beforehand or at the time you had a problem
Moon Loon - "The thing is, I cannot find any F.T.O that has an E.A.S.A A.T.P.L in motion/designed."
Ours is EASA approved, to NPA 25, and was designed that way from day 1, 4 years ago. We stopped doing "residential courses" because it was working out real expensive - you really need at least 4 in a class to make it anywhere remotely workable (especially when you can only do so many hours in a classroom). In short, it isn't really economic.
We do, however, offer a halfway house if you care to get in touch. Presumably you want some sort of classroom environment? That can be arranged over as little as 8 weeks if you want to do the work.
Phil
a) as well, and
b) beforehand or at the time you had a problem
Moon Loon - "The thing is, I cannot find any F.T.O that has an E.A.S.A A.T.P.L in motion/designed."
Ours is EASA approved, to NPA 25, and was designed that way from day 1, 4 years ago. We stopped doing "residential courses" because it was working out real expensive - you really need at least 4 in a class to make it anywhere remotely workable (especially when you can only do so many hours in a classroom). In short, it isn't really economic.
We do, however, offer a halfway house if you care to get in touch. Presumably you want some sort of classroom environment? That can be arranged over as little as 8 weeks if you want to do the work.
Phil
Last edited by paco; 25th October 2011 at 16:03.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,331
Likes: 74
From: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Well, it's obvious that you have, or have had, a problem with what we have to offer, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a recommendation. It's disappointing that this is the first I've heard about it.
"I do not feel obliged to PM you personally for posting as such."
Maybe, maybe not, but ordinary politeness obliges you to raise such matters with myself before you express them on a public forum, especially when no details are supplied.
Phil
"I do not feel obliged to PM you personally for posting as such."
Maybe, maybe not, but ordinary politeness obliges you to raise such matters with myself before you express them on a public forum, especially when no details are supplied.
Phil
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: N/A
I'm afraid I disagree - this is a thread where potential/ past students pass advice to each other. I would not refer back to my University before passing opinion on my degree course quality, and I do not feel this to be any different. And I omit detail for precisely the reason of it not being appropriate to air as such on a public forum.
Perhaps if course evaluation forms were issued at the end of courses, this might have not been the first time.
Perhaps if course evaluation forms were issued at the end of courses, this might have not been the first time.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: UK
ATPL exams
Hello all,
I'm planning on starting the new ATPL home / distance learning syllabus in the next month or two with bristol, does anyone have any pointers or ideas of time frame? How long is a piece of string?
The school suggested 15 hrs a week, mod 1 is 4-6 months, and mod 2 is 1 month less. I'm hesitant as I was told i could complete my ppl in 9'weeks (ground school and flying) that quickly became apparent it wasn't going to happen. I ended up taking about 16 weeks after sitting half my exams initially, i dont consider myself to be a slow learner, but maybe I am, are these guides realistic as i want to study full time and get them done. Any info or advice would be greatly welcomed. Cheers.
John
I'm planning on starting the new ATPL home / distance learning syllabus in the next month or two with bristol, does anyone have any pointers or ideas of time frame? How long is a piece of string?
The school suggested 15 hrs a week, mod 1 is 4-6 months, and mod 2 is 1 month less. I'm hesitant as I was told i could complete my ppl in 9'weeks (ground school and flying) that quickly became apparent it wasn't going to happen. I ended up taking about 16 weeks after sitting half my exams initially, i dont consider myself to be a slow learner, but maybe I am, are these guides realistic as i want to study full time and get them done. Any info or advice would be greatly welcomed. Cheers.
John