Would you become a Professional Pilot again?
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: In the desert southwest
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: The Skies!
"Objection, your honour!"
Well,
I do believe I disagree a lot with this comment.
The question was answered by a lot of people, who in my opinion are whining. If you read some of the previous post, you'll find lots of complaints from people who should just stop complaining, and go do something about it already. You can't really tell me that you think their posts are not whining. Or you must have been reading something different from me.
"Your friend" has been in aviation for many hours, so don't you worry about that. I hope to be there for many hours to come. However, experienced or inexperienced, it really doesn't matter. The fact still remains, if you don't like what you are doing (whatever job you have!), go do something else. It really isn't that hard now is it?
And of course a lot of "noobs" (in my opinion a condescending term for people, especially those that take an interest in our industry) want to get in aviation because of HEMS, SAR of offshore flying (the latter being the biggest employer in the helicopter industry, so not very unrealistic in my opinon). So what? That doesn't mean they won't be very happy flying as an instructor or corporate or any other job for that matter. They might even get to be one of the few that actually makes it to HEMS or SAR. Good for them! If it is your dream, go for it, rather then complain about your current situation, but changing nothing about it.
"The rest of us works 60 to 80 hour weeks illegally, is on duty 330 days per year and makes less money than a brick layer in a 40 hour week.
There is no time for family and the divorce rates are high."
Please... The rest of us? Where did you get these "facts" from? If you want to express your opinion, then fine. But please don't go talking about "the rest of us", because that is simply not true. If you are one that works more hours than legally allowed, you should consider doing something else. Because in my opinion, you are a hazard to yourself, the aircraft, the public and the industry! I think a brick laying job would probably suit you better than flying, so I suggest you go do that. It obviously would make you a lot happier and all of us a lot safer!
"Lot's of us are still in it because it's too late to bail out after two decades or more in the saddle."
To this I say: It must not be bad enough then. Because if it was, I would still rather go do something else than stay at that job and be miserable. It is never too late to bail out if things were bad enough! Besides, if it took you 2 decades to find out that you hated it........ Let's just say I think I would find out a little sooner than that.
As far as DotMark goes: A lot of us are very happy doing what we do and we do it safely and legally! Go to a company, ask around and you will find that most pilots you will talk to are very happy in their job. I have! Sure, it isn't all good. Money could be better. Sometimes it gets boring (even though at the beginning stages that would be unimaginable), but to me it still beats sitting at a desk (or laying bricks!).
"With 150k Euros in your pocket you're better off buying a house so you never have to pay rent again and the bank can't touch you because you have NO loan. Come Friday noon you go home, get on your motorcycle and ride into the weekend."
Again, I did not say the money was fantastic (especially if you have a loan), but it isn't bad either. But don't get into aviation for the money. If that is your motive (which was GoodGriefs motive I suspect), you will end up unhappy without money. Go do it for the love of flying, because you hate the thought of a desk job or because your knees are too bad to lay bricks.
Again, start with a trial lesson, because you might not even like it up there. And if you do..... Make your decision. No one else can do it for you. If you want to give it a go, then do it. Times will get tough, money most certainly will be saying goodbye to you, but if you are like me... The reward of flying makes it all worth while. Then again, if you are like GoodGrief, it most certainly will not. But the grass is always greener on the other side for some people. Whatever you decide, the choice is yours!
Good luck with everything!
I do believe I disagree a lot with this comment.
The question was answered by a lot of people, who in my opinion are whining. If you read some of the previous post, you'll find lots of complaints from people who should just stop complaining, and go do something about it already. You can't really tell me that you think their posts are not whining. Or you must have been reading something different from me.
"Your friend" has been in aviation for many hours, so don't you worry about that. I hope to be there for many hours to come. However, experienced or inexperienced, it really doesn't matter. The fact still remains, if you don't like what you are doing (whatever job you have!), go do something else. It really isn't that hard now is it?
And of course a lot of "noobs" (in my opinion a condescending term for people, especially those that take an interest in our industry) want to get in aviation because of HEMS, SAR of offshore flying (the latter being the biggest employer in the helicopter industry, so not very unrealistic in my opinon). So what? That doesn't mean they won't be very happy flying as an instructor or corporate or any other job for that matter. They might even get to be one of the few that actually makes it to HEMS or SAR. Good for them! If it is your dream, go for it, rather then complain about your current situation, but changing nothing about it.
"The rest of us works 60 to 80 hour weeks illegally, is on duty 330 days per year and makes less money than a brick layer in a 40 hour week.
There is no time for family and the divorce rates are high."
Please... The rest of us? Where did you get these "facts" from? If you want to express your opinion, then fine. But please don't go talking about "the rest of us", because that is simply not true. If you are one that works more hours than legally allowed, you should consider doing something else. Because in my opinion, you are a hazard to yourself, the aircraft, the public and the industry! I think a brick laying job would probably suit you better than flying, so I suggest you go do that. It obviously would make you a lot happier and all of us a lot safer!
"Lot's of us are still in it because it's too late to bail out after two decades or more in the saddle."
To this I say: It must not be bad enough then. Because if it was, I would still rather go do something else than stay at that job and be miserable. It is never too late to bail out if things were bad enough! Besides, if it took you 2 decades to find out that you hated it........ Let's just say I think I would find out a little sooner than that.
As far as DotMark goes: A lot of us are very happy doing what we do and we do it safely and legally! Go to a company, ask around and you will find that most pilots you will talk to are very happy in their job. I have! Sure, it isn't all good. Money could be better. Sometimes it gets boring (even though at the beginning stages that would be unimaginable), but to me it still beats sitting at a desk (or laying bricks!).
"With 150k Euros in your pocket you're better off buying a house so you never have to pay rent again and the bank can't touch you because you have NO loan. Come Friday noon you go home, get on your motorcycle and ride into the weekend."
Again, I did not say the money was fantastic (especially if you have a loan), but it isn't bad either. But don't get into aviation for the money. If that is your motive (which was GoodGriefs motive I suspect), you will end up unhappy without money. Go do it for the love of flying, because you hate the thought of a desk job or because your knees are too bad to lay bricks.
Again, start with a trial lesson, because you might not even like it up there. And if you do..... Make your decision. No one else can do it for you. If you want to give it a go, then do it. Times will get tough, money most certainly will be saying goodbye to you, but if you are like me... The reward of flying makes it all worth while. Then again, if you are like GoodGrief, it most certainly will not. But the grass is always greener on the other side for some people. Whatever you decide, the choice is yours!
Good luck with everything!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte NC
In a New York Minute!
Ive been flying for 32 years, I don't make as much as my friends in banking and finance but I'm a lot happier. I have yet to meet a person who, when they learn that I fly helicopters for a living doesn't say they wished they had a cool job like mine.
If you're not happy as a helicopter pilot I believe that you can't be happy doing anything, this stuff is fun! I've flown in the military(got paid to fly low and fast and shoot stuff),EMS(got paid to help people and sleep too), and corporate(great facilities, first class equipment, and perks), each of them had good and not so good things going on but I can't imagine doing anything else. I have had co-workers who were very unhappy doing the exact same thing I was enjoying, they were always feeling slighted, cheated, unappreciated, underpaid, etc, etc.
Attitude is everything! There are people who would trade places with us in a second, I try to keep that in mind when I am tempted to complain!
My standard line is "I can't believe they pay me to do this"!
If you're not happy as a helicopter pilot I believe that you can't be happy doing anything, this stuff is fun! I've flown in the military(got paid to fly low and fast and shoot stuff),EMS(got paid to help people and sleep too), and corporate(great facilities, first class equipment, and perks), each of them had good and not so good things going on but I can't imagine doing anything else. I have had co-workers who were very unhappy doing the exact same thing I was enjoying, they were always feeling slighted, cheated, unappreciated, underpaid, etc, etc.
Attitude is everything! There are people who would trade places with us in a second, I try to keep that in mind when I am tempted to complain!
My standard line is "I can't believe they pay me to do this"!
Joined: Sep 2002
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,721
Likes: 637
From: Great South East, tired and retired
It has had its ups and downs - so to speak.
Just finished flying after 45 years since my first solo. Probably should have chosen fixed wing as a career that has some progression, because choppers certainly had no progression for the first 35 years I was in it. At least these days, the companies are big enough to offer some chance to improve your lot, but in the past there was nothing left in the piggy bank at the end of the pay cycle, and nothing went into superannuation.
My son at age 17 said he would like to follow me into aviation (as I had followed my father, uncle, brother and brother-in-law) but I told him to get a real job. Luckily he listened and is now wildly successful, so maybe he can support me in my old age.
Just finished flying after 45 years since my first solo. Probably should have chosen fixed wing as a career that has some progression, because choppers certainly had no progression for the first 35 years I was in it. At least these days, the companies are big enough to offer some chance to improve your lot, but in the past there was nothing left in the piggy bank at the end of the pay cycle, and nothing went into superannuation.
My son at age 17 said he would like to follow me into aviation (as I had followed my father, uncle, brother and brother-in-law) but I told him to get a real job. Luckily he listened and is now wildly successful, so maybe he can support me in my old age.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
From: Center of the Universe
Choose carefully
"...It has had its ups and downs - so to speak.....
My son at age 17 said he would like to follow me into aviation (as I had followed my father, uncle, brother and brother-in-law) but I told him to get a real job. Luckily he listened and is now wildly successful ...."
Bingo! Life is all about choices, and every choice involves tradeoffs. With each choice, you get some things and give up other things. Its important to have as full an understanding of the tradeoffs involved with this kind of choice as possible. Its also important for the individual making this choice to know himself/herself well and know how such a choice fits with their values, personality, lifestyle, goals, etc. There is much more to such a choice than doing something that seems "cool." For many, if not most, at age 18 or so, cool trumps everything else. As we grow older and wiser, our notion of what is "cool" expands greatly. At age 18, flying a Sikorsky S-76 seems way cool; by age 35, cool also includes becoming CEO of Sikorsky.
All of this to say that choosing a career is a lot like choosing a wife. There are many possible choices and one needs to choose carefully and thoughtfully. (It is almost certainly easier to change wives than to change careers!) For starters, read the pilot salary surveys in Pro Pilot magazine. Pretty sobering, IMHO. This is an intensely personal decision with possibly life long consequences. Choose carefully.
My son at age 17 said he would like to follow me into aviation (as I had followed my father, uncle, brother and brother-in-law) but I told him to get a real job. Luckily he listened and is now wildly successful ...."
Bingo! Life is all about choices, and every choice involves tradeoffs. With each choice, you get some things and give up other things. Its important to have as full an understanding of the tradeoffs involved with this kind of choice as possible. Its also important for the individual making this choice to know himself/herself well and know how such a choice fits with their values, personality, lifestyle, goals, etc. There is much more to such a choice than doing something that seems "cool." For many, if not most, at age 18 or so, cool trumps everything else. As we grow older and wiser, our notion of what is "cool" expands greatly. At age 18, flying a Sikorsky S-76 seems way cool; by age 35, cool also includes becoming CEO of Sikorsky.
All of this to say that choosing a career is a lot like choosing a wife. There are many possible choices and one needs to choose carefully and thoughtfully. (It is almost certainly easier to change wives than to change careers!) For starters, read the pilot salary surveys in Pro Pilot magazine. Pretty sobering, IMHO. This is an intensely personal decision with possibly life long consequences. Choose carefully.
Last edited by EN48; 29th January 2014 at 23:07.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 518
Likes: 50
From: London/Atlanta
Do it again?
I'm not a pilot but have met and flown with many all over the world. I've never met an unhappy pilot yet and all seem to be happy with their careers, some learnt their trade in the military and then went commercial and some did it the hard way!
Have never met a pilot yet with career regrets.
Have never met a pilot yet with career regrets.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Australia
OK, my turn:
I'm a 34 year old business world professional making $280k pa with a secure job, superannuation. Chances are in another 10 years I could be making double that. Sounds great right? Not really, I work nearly 60hrs pw, sit at a desk or in meetings most of the day, encounter liars, cheaters, self-interested people on a daily basis and often have to make people redundant (good people).
In short, my job is causing me a lot of stress and I'm a bit over it. I could set up a situation through contracting where I could work 2-3 days per week and still make reasonable coin, but allow more time to pursue an alternative career / interest that I would love to do. Introducing the CPL - something I wanted to do out of school but couldn't afford. Had a few lessons over the years, and I'm now in a fortunate position to be able to afford to go for it.
So, if I did this, my business contracting gig would not be flexible i.e. I would need to stick to certain days of the week most probably. Let's say it's 2-4 years from now, I've got my CPL I've clocked up enough hours. What's the likelihood of finding a commercial flying gig that I could balance on my other 3 or so days of freedom? Utopia / fantasy land...?
Being driven, determined etc as often recommended throughout this site is not an issue for me. Without going into a big spiel, I've topped my class at uni, recovered from being wheel chair bound, ran my company at 19 yrs with 10 staff, been CPO for a $3bn company at 29yrs and more.
Lastly, sorry if this post sounds a bit arrogant - I wanted to cut to the chase and have an honest discussion.
Many thanks, I look forward to your responses.
I'm a 34 year old business world professional making $280k pa with a secure job, superannuation. Chances are in another 10 years I could be making double that. Sounds great right? Not really, I work nearly 60hrs pw, sit at a desk or in meetings most of the day, encounter liars, cheaters, self-interested people on a daily basis and often have to make people redundant (good people).
In short, my job is causing me a lot of stress and I'm a bit over it. I could set up a situation through contracting where I could work 2-3 days per week and still make reasonable coin, but allow more time to pursue an alternative career / interest that I would love to do. Introducing the CPL - something I wanted to do out of school but couldn't afford. Had a few lessons over the years, and I'm now in a fortunate position to be able to afford to go for it.
So, if I did this, my business contracting gig would not be flexible i.e. I would need to stick to certain days of the week most probably. Let's say it's 2-4 years from now, I've got my CPL I've clocked up enough hours. What's the likelihood of finding a commercial flying gig that I could balance on my other 3 or so days of freedom? Utopia / fantasy land...?
Being driven, determined etc as often recommended throughout this site is not an issue for me. Without going into a big spiel, I've topped my class at uni, recovered from being wheel chair bound, ran my company at 19 yrs with 10 staff, been CPO for a $3bn company at 29yrs and more.
Lastly, sorry if this post sounds a bit arrogant - I wanted to cut to the chase and have an honest discussion.
Many thanks, I look forward to your responses.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Macstar,
I am an Aussie businessman and heli pilot.
PM me if you like and we can chat.
There is no way you can make the money you want in helis, but you CAN go flying. And flying helis IS THE BEST.
Arrrj
I am an Aussie businessman and heli pilot.
PM me if you like and we can chat.
There is no way you can make the money you want in helis, but you CAN go flying. And flying helis IS THE BEST.
Arrrj
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: Murica.
If I could have started my own career over again, with the same progression...more or less...then sure, I'd do it again.
But looking back to starting flight school 13 years ago, and realizing how incredibly lucky I have been to end up where I am today...I would have to do some soul searching before recommending it to someone else.
It took an amazing amount of luck, hard work, being at the right place and the right time, and knowing the right people to succeed.
At the same time, the feeling of wonder and excitement one gets from looking at the world from a helicopter is unbeatable. And after landing, I always turn around and look back at the machine, thinking "I just flew that". Be it a 300CB or a 76, same feeling. I doubt you get that from a cubicle...
But looking back to starting flight school 13 years ago, and realizing how incredibly lucky I have been to end up where I am today...I would have to do some soul searching before recommending it to someone else.
It took an amazing amount of luck, hard work, being at the right place and the right time, and knowing the right people to succeed.
At the same time, the feeling of wonder and excitement one gets from looking at the world from a helicopter is unbeatable. And after landing, I always turn around and look back at the machine, thinking "I just flew that". Be it a 300CB or a 76, same feeling. I doubt you get that from a cubicle...
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Helicopter pilot? Probably Yes.
North Sea pilot? Certainly Not.
I don't care about the money, I care about having a nice and easy life. No, the North Sea is not offering it. It does offer the money, but that's all about it. When you are young, it's probably ok. As you get older (and wiser) you will probably wonder "what am I doing up here".
North Sea pilot? Certainly Not.
I don't care about the money, I care about having a nice and easy life. No, the North Sea is not offering it. It does offer the money, but that's all about it. When you are young, it's probably ok. As you get older (and wiser) you will probably wonder "what am I doing up here".