Helicopter down - North Sea Dutch sector
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Where is helicomparitor when we need him?
Very interesting! This is a BRISTOW Super Puma that ditched with a load of pax, perhaps allowing them to use the large, handy escape windows. Pity that helicomparitor did not help us understand this one, unlike his extremely helpful discussions when other brand helicopters have cockpit lights come on, and he wonders out loud if that should affect their engine failure probabilities.
What say you, hc, should this engine problem, followed by flight control problem be counted in some way?
Seriously, it is good that all made it out ok.
What say you, hc, should this engine problem, followed by flight control problem be counted in some way?
Seriously, it is good that all made it out ok.
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J-sar
According to decent info, they had ng problems in one engine @ 3k, descended to low level, had ng probs on the other engine, then intermittent hydraulic locking on the controls, they ditched and thankfully all made it out... nicely done. 
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Looking at the photo taken from the front right of the heli, it looks like the windows are still there and the main door has been slid forward though the captain's door is open. The chaps would have only gone through the windows if the heli had capsized. looks to me that they should have been able to walk into the rafts, I don't know how the evacuation went though and if this was the case...
Pistongone
That would be telling
The S76C does indeed have floats as do all helicopters that are used in the offshore industry.
If you are going to the Rough 3B you will be travelling in a 365N2 and it should only take 15mins.
HF
That would be telling
The S76C does indeed have floats as do all helicopters that are used in the offshore industry.
If you are going to the Rough 3B you will be travelling in a 365N2 and it should only take 15mins.
HF
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Hummingfrog,
Its 47Bravo we are off to. We have just got it back online, and its close out time and home for Christmas. Rough has two main platforms Alpha and Bravo funnily enough
and the Bravo platform blew up back in February. We have just re-commisioned it and are in the process of handing over the asset, to use management Bull$Ł!T. So maybe see you there!
Its 47Bravo we are off to. We have just got it back online, and its close out time and home for Christmas.
Rough has two main platforms Alpha and Bravo funnily enough and the Bravo platform blew up back in February. We have just re-commisioned it and are in the process of handing over the asset, to use management Bull$Ł!T. So maybe see you there!
Nick
I am sure my colleagues who spent some time in the water at midnight will be warmed and comforted by your gloating. You really aren't a very nice person are you.
And no, this was not a 225 so only normal sized windows (bigger than the S92's none the less)
From the scant info so far, it seems that the engine problem was not why they ditched - both engines were producing useful power and governing rrpm. It was the control malfunction. It is not nice to be flying along and unable to move the cyclic, even if only intermittently.
I presume these are linked but just how is not known at this stage, and I see no point in speculating. The AAIB will come up with the answers in due course.
HC
I am sure my colleagues who spent some time in the water at midnight will be warmed and comforted by your gloating. You really aren't a very nice person are you.
And no, this was not a 225 so only normal sized windows (bigger than the S92's none the less)
From the scant info so far, it seems that the engine problem was not why they ditched - both engines were producing useful power and governing rrpm. It was the control malfunction. It is not nice to be flying along and unable to move the cyclic, even if only intermittently.
I presume these are linked but just how is not known at this stage, and I see no point in speculating. The AAIB will come up with the answers in due course.
HC
Last edited by HeliComparator; 22nd Nov 2006 at 17:47.
Got to say I’m somewhat disappointed with your comments Mr Lappos, don’t believe this is the right thread to take pot-shots at HC or the Super Puma.
Have been following the other thread and there imho you also show signs of a being a bad loser (not sure there are any “losers” but that’s the way some of your replies come over to me).
Had thought a man of your calibre, experience would be above that kind of things.
For now and back to the thread I will be very interested to find out what really happened and the causes, but think we will have to wait for the AAIB for that.
Greetings
Finalchecksplease
Have been following the other thread and there imho you also show signs of a being a bad loser (not sure there are any “losers” but that’s the way some of your replies come over to me).
Had thought a man of your calibre, experience would be above that kind of things.
For now and back to the thread I will be very interested to find out what really happened and the causes, but think we will have to wait for the AAIB for that.
Greetings
Finalchecksplease
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fcp Spot on.
Many of us Mr Lappos do not feel this is an occassion to shoot cheap shots at our competitors, and immediately offered what help we could. It is beyond me why someone is so keen to rubbish their former employers competitors products. Perhaps Dassault & Bombardier should be better targets for a bizjet man...
Well done to the crew. A job well done in a difficult situation by all accounts.
A minor correction: As the accident occured in waters of The Netherlands, the accident will be investigated by what is known as the De Onderzoeksraad voor veiligheid (the Dutch Safety Board) since the old RVTV's role was expanded in 2005.
The last helicopter accident in our sector was 9 years ago:
http://www.safetyboard.nl/publicatio.../981022271.pdf
This report, perhaps not as read wide as it should, helped justify the SAR aircraft at Den Helder. You will see the benefit of escape features and recommendations for more work in this area. This report shows there are many reasons to use an escape window not just after a mechanical failure.
And, I hardly dare mention it, you may also note a recommendation for AVAD.
When the Safety Board report is published the wise men will learn from it just as the wise men learnt from PH-KHB.
Nor do wise men only want to improve safety when they or their friends have something to sell.
Lets hope JSAR is back in the air soon.
Many of us Mr Lappos do not feel this is an occassion to shoot cheap shots at our competitors, and immediately offered what help we could. It is beyond me why someone is so keen to rubbish their former employers competitors products. Perhaps Dassault & Bombardier should be better targets for a bizjet man...
Well done to the crew. A job well done in a difficult situation by all accounts.
A minor correction: As the accident occured in waters of The Netherlands, the accident will be investigated by what is known as the De Onderzoeksraad voor veiligheid (the Dutch Safety Board) since the old RVTV's role was expanded in 2005.
The last helicopter accident in our sector was 9 years ago:
http://www.safetyboard.nl/publicatio.../981022271.pdf
This report, perhaps not as read wide as it should, helped justify the SAR aircraft at Den Helder. You will see the benefit of escape features and recommendations for more work in this area. This report shows there are many reasons to use an escape window not just after a mechanical failure.
And, I hardly dare mention it, you may also note a recommendation for AVAD.
When the Safety Board report is published the wise men will learn from it just as the wise men learnt from PH-KHB.
Nor do wise men only want to improve safety when they or their friends have something to sell.
Lets hope JSAR is back in the air soon.
Last edited by sox6; 22nd Nov 2006 at 19:43. Reason: Because offshore and SAR crews are worth it...
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Second "accident" to a 332L2 in two weeks. Likely unrelated but not a good time for EC.
Helicomparitor, wouldn't HUMS pick up problems before a possible engine problem became significant enough to cause control issues? Isn't that what its meant to do, detect problems early to prevent this kind of thing? Is the system on the 225 more advanced than the L2?
HH
Helicomparitor, wouldn't HUMS pick up problems before a possible engine problem became significant enough to cause control issues? Isn't that what its meant to do, detect problems early to prevent this kind of thing? Is the system on the 225 more advanced than the L2?
HH
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wouldn't HUMS pick up problems before a possible engine problem became significant enough to cause control issues?
I don't know how long this particular aircraft had been flying, but if it was on the return sector, it may have been 2-3 hours, during which time a sudden engine fault may have occured, so IHUMS wouldn't have helped.
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I think you try make nobel something that is not!
sat·i·rize tr.v. sat·i·rized, sat·i·riz·ing, sat·i·riz·es
To ridicule or attack by means of satire.
sat‧ire /–noun 1.the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
Using an accident to do that is in bad taste and 'deriding the folly' of being able to escape through large windows (or looking at the photos - doors) is ill judged IMHO.
Plus people pay for Private Eye because it is funny.
sat·i·rize tr.v. sat·i·rized, sat·i·riz·ing, sat·i·riz·es
To ridicule or attack by means of satire.
sat‧ire /–noun 1.the use of irony, sarcasm, ridicule, or the like, in exposing, denouncing, or deriding vice, folly, etc.
Using an accident to do that is in bad taste and 'deriding the folly' of being able to escape through large windows (or looking at the photos - doors) is ill judged IMHO.
Plus people pay for Private Eye because it is funny.
HH
I think it would be a mistake to assume that the problem stemmed from an engine problem. The only engine problem was a mismatch in power settings. Personally I think we may find that the root cause of the accident caused both the engine problem and the control problem. There are some possible scenarios but I am not going to speculate at this stage.
HUMS on the 225 is called M'ARMS and yes its a later design than the EuroARMS on the L2.
sox - when I said the AAIB I did of course mean the Dutch version but not knowing what they were called, AAIB was as close as I could get! Sorry about that!
HC
I think it would be a mistake to assume that the problem stemmed from an engine problem. The only engine problem was a mismatch in power settings. Personally I think we may find that the root cause of the accident caused both the engine problem and the control problem. There are some possible scenarios but I am not going to speculate at this stage.
HUMS on the 225 is called M'ARMS and yes its a later design than the EuroARMS on the L2.
sox - when I said the AAIB I did of course mean the Dutch version but not knowing what they were called, AAIB was as close as I could get! Sorry about that!
HC
Glad everyone made it out OK.
Very glad, as a ditching at night (even though a controlled one)presents itself with many additional difficulties.
Even happier 'cause one of my buddies flies 332s out of Den Helder.
Very glad, as a ditching at night (even though a controlled one)presents itself with many additional difficulties.
Even happier 'cause one of my buddies flies 332s out of Den Helder.
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This was not a crash, every time an aircraft lands "out of sequence" it has to be a crash. Why?
This was a controlled ditching following engine "problems" followed by flight control "problems". The helicopter is on the beach (yes beach) so no doubt these problems will, we hope will be found and sorted so all the other L2 drivers can sleep well at night again.
As well as being the SAR helicopter it also does the night standby cover for the oil patch. Which was the reason for last night's flight.
As reported previously, all are well.
This was a controlled ditching following engine "problems" followed by flight control "problems". The helicopter is on the beach (yes beach) so no doubt these problems will, we hope will be found and sorted so all the other L2 drivers can sleep well at night again.
As well as being the SAR helicopter it also does the night standby cover for the oil patch. Which was the reason for last night's flight.
As reported previously, all are well.
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Glad everyone made it out safe, Have to say well done to the crew, cannot have been easy ditching at night with a control restriction.
I flew out of Den Helder today on the other Tiger, G-TIGJ.
On check in at Den Helder we were offered a brief on the incident if we so wished, I went just because I am a Radio Operator and wondered if there was anything that would be useful if I ever received such a call, plus I used to work in the ARCC while in light blue and wondered about the SAR response. Nothing new to add to what has already been posted but I did notice that during our video brief you could have heard a pin drop, I dont think anyone even moved. As someone who has had to stop video briefs before on other rigs due to the guys going back to the beach just chatting while it was running it was a noticeable change. Makes me wonder why it isnt always like that.
Again, just glad that all are safe.
I flew out of Den Helder today on the other Tiger, G-TIGJ.
On check in at Den Helder we were offered a brief on the incident if we so wished, I went just because I am a Radio Operator and wondered if there was anything that would be useful if I ever received such a call, plus I used to work in the ARCC while in light blue and wondered about the SAR response. Nothing new to add to what has already been posted but I did notice that during our video brief you could have heard a pin drop, I dont think anyone even moved. As someone who has had to stop video briefs before on other rigs due to the guys going back to the beach just chatting while it was running it was a noticeable change. Makes me wonder why it isnt always like that.
Again, just glad that all are safe.
Just Dropped In
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Glad to hear everyone made it out ok!
Nice flying!
Also glad to see a machine sat upright in the water! Reassuring to see the flot bags work!
Ashamed to see people using a thread like this to have a pop at anything or anyone!
Congrats to the crew!
Nice flying!
Also glad to see a machine sat upright in the water! Reassuring to see the flot bags work!
Ashamed to see people using a thread like this to have a pop at anything or anyone!
Congrats to the crew!
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Starboard door EC332
Everyone please note that the starboard doors on Eurocopter 332 aircraft are liable to jam when jettisoned if a winch frame is attached. This has been highlighted to Bristow crews. Probably why the Starboard Door was slid open and locked for the evacuation.(The door can drop down on the lower projecting winch frame and rotate such that it traps against the sponson making egress difficult)
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