ATPL(H) Theory obtained through CPL(H) & IR
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From FCL 2.495 :
(b) A pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(H) during 36 months and will remain valid indefinitely towards the grant of the ATPL(H) provided that the applicant has a valid type rating entered in the CPL(H).
(c) Provided that an IR(H) is obtained, a pass in the ATPL(H)/IR theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(H) entered in the CPL(H) for the issuance of an ATPL(H)/IR.
ATPL(H) theory is valid for 36 months to gain a CPL(H) or IR(H).
If you hold a CPL(H), it is valid indefinitely for the grant of an ATPL(H)/VFR.
If you hold a CPL(H)/IR, it is valid 7 years for an ATPL(H)/IR.
I had saw in lasors J1.7 that you had to re-sit the ATPL theory if you did not obtain a CPL(H) & IR(H) within 36 months after passing the original ATPL theory, If you want an ATPL(H) (IR) issued, however it does not state in JAR FCL 2.295 that you have to re-sit all the ATPL theory exams (See Fredfri quote above)
So I don’t see why I can't just do my IR theory and gain an IR(H) then at a latter date if I find my self flying offshore with a CPL(H) & (IR) gaining MP experience and the get my ATPL(H) (IR) that way. I’ve emailed the CAA to ask this.
Fredfri JAR FCL 2.85(a) used to refer to the holder of a CPL(H) & IR(H) = ATPL(H) theory credit.
Fredfri I just saw your post on FCL 2.050, appendix 4 of FCL 2.050 does give credits for some theory exams.
I will send an email to the CAA to see what they say.
Thanks guys.
(b) A pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(H) during 36 months and will remain valid indefinitely towards the grant of the ATPL(H) provided that the applicant has a valid type rating entered in the CPL(H).
(c) Provided that an IR(H) is obtained, a pass in the ATPL(H)/IR theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(H) entered in the CPL(H) for the issuance of an ATPL(H)/IR.
ATPL(H) theory is valid for 36 months to gain a CPL(H) or IR(H).
If you hold a CPL(H), it is valid indefinitely for the grant of an ATPL(H)/VFR.
If you hold a CPL(H)/IR, it is valid 7 years for an ATPL(H)/IR.
I had saw in lasors J1.7 that you had to re-sit the ATPL theory if you did not obtain a CPL(H) & IR(H) within 36 months after passing the original ATPL theory, If you want an ATPL(H) (IR) issued, however it does not state in JAR FCL 2.295 that you have to re-sit all the ATPL theory exams (See Fredfri quote above)
So I don’t see why I can't just do my IR theory and gain an IR(H) then at a latter date if I find my self flying offshore with a CPL(H) & (IR) gaining MP experience and the get my ATPL(H) (IR) that way. I’ve emailed the CAA to ask this.
Fredfri JAR FCL 2.85(a) used to refer to the holder of a CPL(H) & IR(H) = ATPL(H) theory credit.
Fredfri I just saw your post on FCL 2.050, appendix 4 of FCL 2.050 does give credits for some theory exams.
I will send an email to the CAA to see what they say.
Thanks guys.
Last edited by ThomasTheTankEngine; 7th Nov 2006 at 16:26.
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Better red than ...
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Having now read the entire JAR FCL2 in some detail I see that there is a Perf paper for H now, which must be the new bit (I did IFR Comms ).
h-r
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Confused
So what about the people already studying for the ATPLs under the UK CAA " interim" arrangement of 12 ATPL(A) subjects/exams and 1 P of F (H) exam.?
Are these people , myself included, wasting our time and will these exam passes be worthless?
Please tell me that's not so.
Chester
Are these people , myself included, wasting our time and will these exam passes be worthless?
Please tell me that's not so.
Chester
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Chester2005
I don't understand your confusion. Assuming you pass your exams in the next few months and gain an ATPL, why would it suddenly be worthless once issued? All this is only just being agreed and it still has to go through the British legal process so I would not expect anything to happen until at least July 2007.
The current interim system allows aeroplane exams to be credited towards a helicopter licence, so you won't have to do them again.
In any case, there will be improved crediting between the CPL and IR, and between (A) and (H), plus bridging exams. All this has still to be resolved, however.
The new equivalence will be:
ATPL(H)/IR = ATPL(A)
CPL(H) = CPL(A)
ATPL(VFR) = Old CPL(H)
The revised CQB will be out in early 2007 and the transition period could take up to 2 years, so there's plenty of time, although there is a specific helicopter course nearly ready, so this might be shorter.
There - clear as mud!
Phil
I don't understand your confusion. Assuming you pass your exams in the next few months and gain an ATPL, why would it suddenly be worthless once issued? All this is only just being agreed and it still has to go through the British legal process so I would not expect anything to happen until at least July 2007.
The current interim system allows aeroplane exams to be credited towards a helicopter licence, so you won't have to do them again.
In any case, there will be improved crediting between the CPL and IR, and between (A) and (H), plus bridging exams. All this has still to be resolved, however.
The new equivalence will be:
ATPL(H)/IR = ATPL(A)
CPL(H) = CPL(A)
ATPL(VFR) = Old CPL(H)
The revised CQB will be out in early 2007 and the transition period could take up to 2 years, so there's plenty of time, although there is a specific helicopter course nearly ready, so this might be shorter.
There - clear as mud!
Phil
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CQB
So when the revised CQB is brought into use , are all the questions changed or do they just add a proportion of new ones?
The FAA system is so much more straightforward
Chester
The FAA system is so much more straightforward
Chester
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I suspect it will just be additions so the questions you are already familiar with should still be there
The FAA system gives out the questions, certainly, BUT - they do not give out the answers - those in books are the author's opinions of what they should be, although, obviously, there is some sort of feedback system.
However, the written exams are not the real hurdle - the practical is the one to watch out for! This goes for Canada, as well. They are by no means a pushover, and I wouldn't have said they were necessarily easier - just more practical and relevant, or as chester says, more straightforward. At least you get the results back there and then and, more importantly, they tell you what you get wrong and suggest areas for review.
Phil
The FAA system gives out the questions, certainly, BUT - they do not give out the answers - those in books are the author's opinions of what they should be, although, obviously, there is some sort of feedback system.
However, the written exams are not the real hurdle - the practical is the one to watch out for! This goes for Canada, as well. They are by no means a pushover, and I wouldn't have said they were necessarily easier - just more practical and relevant, or as chester says, more straightforward. At least you get the results back there and then and, more importantly, they tell you what you get wrong and suggest areas for review.
Phil
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the FAA CPL theory exam takes about 2 weeks to study for
the JAA CPL theory exams takes at LEAST 5-6 months to study for and are far harder
the JAA system, with all it's many faults, results in only the true committed people with above average intelligence getting through
the JAA CPL theory exams takes at LEAST 5-6 months to study for and are far harder
the JAA system, with all it's many faults, results in only the true committed people with above average intelligence getting through
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The FAA written is easy correct. But the oral is a real killer, if you only study 2 weeks you will never get a FAA license. When you past your JAA theoretical exams it's a piece of cake. The accent lies in JAA land on theoretical knowledge in the form of writtens. In FAA land you need to be able to explain almost everything. By the way did you know that about 50% of students in FAA land also never get a license?
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thecontroller
Studying the FAA questions takes about 2 weeks. Studying the whole syllabus properly is more like 3-4 months, at least. Same goes for Canada.
Phil
Studying the FAA questions takes about 2 weeks. Studying the whole syllabus properly is more like 3-4 months, at least. Same goes for Canada.
Phil
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paco,
from JAR-FCL 2.470 i just read:
Did i miss something or was it always 'just' 9 subjects? I always thought of 14 exams for CPL(H) - in germany at least i should say. 
If it was 14 before and is now 'down to 9' (excuse my wording, i still have respect for what you have to learn for CPL(H) level) i might think of going that route. I just passed my PPL(H) theory and do not plan to fly for a living, nevertheless i think a CPL(H) is a goal to aim for especially because i think about doing FI(H) later. At least in germany you have to proove CPL(H) knowledge to pass your FI(H). Therefore a FI(H) without getting your CPL(H) before does not make sense as you need to show your CPL(H) knowledge anyway at the LBA. It is just that i always thought getting the CPL(H) theory done with 14 exams is too much given that you have a job taking 10 to 12 hours of your day.
TIA,
Ready2Fly
from JAR-FCL 2.470 i just read:
(b) An applicant for the CPL(H) shall demonstrate a level of knowledge appropriate to the privileges granted in the following [9] subjects: Air Law; Aircraft General Knowledge; Flight Performance and Planning; Human Performance [ ]; Meteorology; Navigation; Operational Procedures; Principles of flight; [VFR] Communications. The breakdown of subjects into examination papers and times allowed will be agreed within JAA Member States [and stated in the associated procedures].
If it was 14 before and is now 'down to 9' (excuse my wording, i still have respect for what you have to learn for CPL(H) level) i might think of going that route. I just passed my PPL(H) theory and do not plan to fly for a living, nevertheless i think a CPL(H) is a goal to aim for especially because i think about doing FI(H) later. At least in germany you have to proove CPL(H) knowledge to pass your FI(H). Therefore a FI(H) without getting your CPL(H) before does not make sense as you need to show your CPL(H) knowledge anyway at the LBA. It is just that i always thought getting the CPL(H) theory done with 14 exams is too much given that you have a job taking 10 to 12 hours of your day.
TIA,
Ready2Fly
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this is funny. everyone has their own interpretations of JAA/CPL/FCL/EASA/ATPL etc requirements
you ask a flight school and they just say "look in LASORS" or "phone the CAA"
so you phone up the CAA, and they dont know the answer either
classic stuff.
you ask a flight school and they just say "look in LASORS" or "phone the CAA"
so you phone up the CAA, and they dont know the answer either
classic stuff.
I almost had a heart attack when I read about the rule change until I read Fredfri´s post about FCL 2.050 which in essence stipulates that everyone that passed CPL/IR under amendment 3 or earlier is not affected.
'Whirlygig' will you get by under that rule or have you decided to take the ATPL exams?
'Whirlygig' will you get by under that rule or have you decided to take the ATPL exams?