ATPL(H) Theory obtained through CPL(H) & IR
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ATPL(H) Theory obtained through CPL(H) & IR
I received a letter from the CAA about a year ago confirming if I added an IR to my CPL(H) then I would receive an ATPL(H) theory credit but they also said this could change in the future.
I know in JAR FCL 2 it still states that if you have a CPL(H) with IR then you meet the ATPL(H) theory credits but I’ve been told that this could change soon.
Has anyone heard anything about this?
Thanks guys TTTE.
I know in JAR FCL 2 it still states that if you have a CPL(H) with IR then you meet the ATPL(H) theory credits but I’ve been told that this could change soon.
Has anyone heard anything about this?
Thanks guys TTTE.
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Yes, it is changing, but don't hold your breath. The current CPL(H) with only minor changes to the syllabus is soon to become the ATPL(VFR), and a new CPL(H) will be brought in at the same academic level as the CPL(A) (i.e. very low).
NPA 25 has been sort of agreed but still has to go through the British legal process, which will take a few months yet.
You won't lose out on your studies.
Phil
NPA 25 has been sort of agreed but still has to go through the British legal process, which will take a few months yet.
You won't lose out on your studies.
Phil
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Does that mean that students who have completed the current ATPL(H) theory and have a CPL(H) under the current system can 'convert' it (or preferably just 'get') the new ATPL(VFR)??!
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Hi Phill
I’ve just read it in JAR FCL 2.285(a) so it has changed.
What I really want to do is get my IR and get an ATPL(H) theory credit so I have the option to fly off shore, I see with the changes in the JAR system that I need to sit the all the ATPL(H) theory to do this.
Thank TTTE.
I’ve just read it in JAR FCL 2.285(a) so it has changed.
What I really want to do is get my IR and get an ATPL(H) theory credit so I have the option to fly off shore, I see with the changes in the JAR system that I need to sit the all the ATPL(H) theory to do this.
Thank TTTE.
Last edited by ThomasTheTankEngine; 7th Nov 2006 at 01:58.
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Eek I'm in the middle of CPL(H) ground school with a view to an IR maybe later but on the understanding that the CPL(H)/IR could be "converted" to an ATPL(H) as and when the hours experience were fulfilled.
Should I change horses or stick with CPL(H) exams?
Cheers
Whirls
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Whirls,
I'd just give up now and spend the money on a great holiday/cruise/car/kitchen (delete as appropriate)
The reality is that there are hardly any jobs for low time pilots in the UK, even with an IR. This talk of a boom time if you have 1000hrs+ and the IR is not as true as one may think. The next hurdle is experience with IR. Hours on particular types. etc etc.
Unless an offshore operator offers to pay for the IR, I bet it's going to be a bit of a personal waste of cash right now. I know of a number of guys, recently hired by one of the big 3, sitting waiting for training to commence due to lack of a/c, lack of instructors. And these guys are on pay!
PS, if anyone has some part time work for me?????
I'd just give up now and spend the money on a great holiday/cruise/car/kitchen (delete as appropriate)
The reality is that there are hardly any jobs for low time pilots in the UK, even with an IR. This talk of a boom time if you have 1000hrs+ and the IR is not as true as one may think. The next hurdle is experience with IR. Hours on particular types. etc etc.
Unless an offshore operator offers to pay for the IR, I bet it's going to be a bit of a personal waste of cash right now. I know of a number of guys, recently hired by one of the big 3, sitting waiting for training to commence due to lack of a/c, lack of instructors. And these guys are on pay!
PS, if anyone has some part time work for me?????
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Kissmy!! Wh'appen?
I know all about the doom and gloom but I would feel a right chump IF there was an opening a few years down the line and I'd got the wrong exams and had to sit more exams!
In reality I expect to go the instructor route but I don't want to close any doors needlessly at this stage in my training.
Cheers
Whirls
I know all about the doom and gloom but I would feel a right chump IF there was an opening a few years down the line and I'd got the wrong exams and had to sit more exams!
In reality I expect to go the instructor route but I don't want to close any doors needlessly at this stage in my training.
Cheers
Whirls
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Do the exams by all means. IR theory is easy enough anyway as an add on but if you do the atpl's now, i'm sure they'll retain their validity. If you dont want to do an ir in future, then just do the cpls. Why do more than u need?
Whichever way it goes, there has to be a bridging system for people with the cpl course to go IR route and atpl.
Whichever way it goes, there has to be a bridging system for people with the cpl course to go IR route and atpl.
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The problem is, I haven't actually sat any exams (am about to shortly) so if I swap, then now is the time to do it. My concern is that these new rules mean that a CPL(H)/IR cannot be converted to an ATPL(H) without having a full set of ATPL(H) theory exams.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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Hi Whirls
Untill August you could have held a CPL(H) with IR and you had the ATPL(H) theory credit but JAR FCL 2 was ammended so now you have to do the ATPL theory which lasts 36 months.
You can down load a copy of JAR FCL 2 from www.jaa.nl see section FCL 2.285
Untill August you could have held a CPL(H) with IR and you had the ATPL(H) theory credit but JAR FCL 2 was ammended so now you have to do the ATPL theory which lasts 36 months.
You can down load a copy of JAR FCL 2 from www.jaa.nl see section FCL 2.285
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err, are you sure about that?
i thought the ATPL(H) theory credit were only valid for 3 years. if you dont get your IR within that, you have to resit the 7 IR exams again. i know people in that situation and that is what the CAA has told them.
from LASORS:
J1.6 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
EXAMINATION CREDITS
Details of JAR-FCL Theoretical Examination Credits
can be found within the appropriate section for the
licence being sought.
J1.7 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
EXAMINATION ACCEPTANCE PERIOD
Potential candidates for the JAR-FCL ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations should first consider the
implications of JAR-FCL 1.495 or 2.495 that relates to
the Acceptance Period.
A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be
accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36
months from the end of the month of the date of the final
pass in the examinations. Provided that an IR is
obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid
(for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years
from the validity date of the most recent renewal IR
entered in the CPL.
Failure to comply with Acceptance Period
If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month
acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will
lapse. Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL
theory credit. However, it has been agreed that where
a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations but were not granted a CPL/
IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount
of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction will be at the
discretion of the Head of Training of the Approved FTO.
i thought the ATPL(H) theory credit were only valid for 3 years. if you dont get your IR within that, you have to resit the 7 IR exams again. i know people in that situation and that is what the CAA has told them.
from LASORS:
J1.6 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
EXAMINATION CREDITS
Details of JAR-FCL Theoretical Examination Credits
can be found within the appropriate section for the
licence being sought.
J1.7 JAR-FCL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE
EXAMINATION ACCEPTANCE PERIOD
Potential candidates for the JAR-FCL ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations should first consider the
implications of JAR-FCL 1.495 or 2.495 that relates to
the Acceptance Period.
A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be
accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36
months from the end of the month of the date of the final
pass in the examinations. Provided that an IR is
obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid
(for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years
from the validity date of the most recent renewal IR
entered in the CPL.
Failure to comply with Acceptance Period
If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month
acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will
lapse. Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL
theory credit. However, it has been agreed that where
a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations but were not granted a CPL/
IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount
of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction will be at the
discretion of the Head of Training of the Approved FTO.
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A pass in the ATPL theory examinations will be
accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36
months from the end of the month of the date of the final
pass in the examinations. Provided that an IR is
obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid
(for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years
from the validity date of the most recent renewal IR
entered in the CPL.
Failure to comply with Acceptance Period
If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month
acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will
lapse. Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL
theory credit. However, it has been agreed that where
a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations but were not granted a CPL/
IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount
of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction will be at the
discretion of the Head of Training of the Approved FTO.
accepted for the issue of a CPL or IR during the 36
months from the end of the month of the date of the final
pass in the examinations. Provided that an IR is
obtained during this period, a pass in the ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid
(for the purpose of ATPL issue) for a period of 7 years
from the validity date of the most recent renewal IR
entered in the CPL.
Failure to comply with Acceptance Period
If a CPL and IR are not granted within the 36 month
acceptance period then the ATPL theory credit will
lapse. Candidates will be required to re-pass all ATPL
theoretical knowledge examinations to regain ATPL
theory credit. However, it has been agreed that where
a candidate has previously passed all ATPL theoretical
knowledge examinations but were not granted a CPL/
IR within the 36 month acceptance period, the amount
of ATPL theoretical knowledge instruction will be at the
discretion of the Head of Training of the Approved FTO.
Difference must be made for an ATPL(H) (without any mention added, ie VFR).
From FCL 2.495 :
(b) A pass in the ATPL(H) theoretical knowledge examinations will be accepted for the grant of the CPL(H) during 36 months and will remain valid indefinitely towards the grant of the ATPL(H) provided that the applicant has a valid type rating entered in the CPL(H).
(c) Provided that an IR(H) is obtained, a pass in the ATPL(H)/IR theoretical knowledge examination will remain valid for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of the IR(H) entered in the CPL(H) for the issuance of an ATPL(H)/IR.
ATPL(H) theory is valid for 36 months to gain a CPL(H) or IR(H).
If you hold a CPL(H), it is valid indefinitely for the grant of an ATPL(H)/VFR.
If you hold a CPL(H)/IR, it is valid 7 years for an ATPL(H)/IR.
Aniway, we're not answering the initial topic (just giving Whirlygig some food for thought !) :
"ATPL theory gained through CPL & IR ?" - and I must say that I find no clue in the FCL2 to any positive answer.
Also I don't get the relation between FCL 2.285(a) (mentioned before) and the initial question...?
Last edited by FredFri; 7th Nov 2006 at 14:31. Reason: precision added
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That's the way I understand it (note I didn't say "that's the way it is"
)As I see it, you have 14 exams in an ATPL(H)/IR theory. That's the 13 of an ATPL(H)/VFR + subject 092 (IFR communications).
(see FCL 2.470 (a) for Vfr and (d) for Ifr)
If you pass those 14, you have 3 years to get a CPL and an IR.
If you get only the CPL, they are still valid (no limit) for the issuance of an ATPL(H)/VFR.
If you get CPL&IR, then you have 7 years to take the ATPL(H)/IR practical test.
Question is if you get a CPL only and want to go for IR 4 years later?
Do you resit the 7 IR exams? or 092 only?
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I've just found the reference to the initial question of this thread!
It's new in amendment 4 :
FCL 2.050 (b) (9) through (11) :
(9) An applicant having passed the theoretical knowledge examination for a CPL(H) under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H).
(10) The holder of a CPL(H) gained under previous amendments of JAR-FCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H).
(11) The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H) gained under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H) and IR(H).
.
It's new in amendment 4 :
FCL 2.050 (b) (9) through (11) :
(9) An applicant having passed the theoretical knowledge examination for a CPL(H) under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H).
(10) The holder of a CPL(H) gained under previous amendments of JAR-FCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H).
(11) The holder of a CPL(H) and IR(H) gained under previous amendments of JARFCL 2 up to and including Amendment 3 is credited with the theoretical knowledge requirements for ATPL(H) and IR(H).
.