Training Bond
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3
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From: UK
Training Bond
Anyone out there been bonded for the training they have received?
I am looking at going for a job where the company is stating that there is a 3 year bond for between £11000 and £14000 for the type conversion/line training etc
Also, no reduction over the period. They would still want the full amount after 2 years and 364 days
Is this legal
Would I be expected to sign a separate agreement over and above the 'standard' contract?
All sounds a bit scary.
Anyone been stung on this or managed to avoid it if they have left a job early?
I am looking at going for a job where the company is stating that there is a 3 year bond for between £11000 and £14000 for the type conversion/line training etc
Also, no reduction over the period. They would still want the full amount after 2 years and 364 days
Is this legal
Would I be expected to sign a separate agreement over and above the 'standard' contract?
All sounds a bit scary.
Anyone been stung on this or managed to avoid it if they have left a job early?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 2
From: In my tank engine
Its not ilegal but it doesn't sound fair.
What are they rating you on for £14,000?
A fair bonding would run over a period of years decreasing by a fractional amount every month (2 years decreasing by 1/24 each month or 3 years decreasing by 1/36 each month etc)
What are they rating you on for £14,000?
A fair bonding would run over a period of years decreasing by a fractional amount every month (2 years decreasing by 1/24 each month or 3 years decreasing by 1/36 each month etc)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104
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From: In the Orient
In the outfit where I work we have to sign a 5 years bond for a 5 hr simulator currency. The simulator training is only valid for 1 year. You go again and sign another 5 years. The previous bonding is considered null and void . Most pilots who leave will eventually pay something back to the sim time (on a sliding scale)!:
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 204
Likes: 2
From: In my tank engine
Hi Snoogle
I think a few questions you need to ask your self are.
Will this further your career or do you already have a position where you can gain the type of experience you would in this role?
Is the money a lot better than your present position?
Is it close to where you live in comparision to your present job?
Are you going to stick it out for 3 years?
Still sounds unfair to me but if you did stay for 3 years it wouldn't realy matter.
Good luck.
I think a few questions you need to ask your self are.
Will this further your career or do you already have a position where you can gain the type of experience you would in this role?
Is the money a lot better than your present position?
Is it close to where you live in comparision to your present job?
Are you going to stick it out for 3 years?
Still sounds unfair to me but if you did stay for 3 years it wouldn't realy matter.
Good luck.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 364
Likes: 29
From: Somewhere very sunny !
I seem to remember Bristows bonding some new blokes for a type rating and they left early, Bristows tried to get there money back but it ended up in court. The short of it all, if my memory is correct (know doubt someone in pprune will correct me if I'm wrong) is that you cannot be bonded for a type conversion if the company need you to fly there a/c, they can only bond you if they have paid for your initial license. Worth looking into ITI. Any Bristow or ex Bristow blokes (or birds) care to comment.
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 160
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From: on my boat in the Caribbean
Bonding is legal. What is a little doubtful is the legality of a non-reducing bond. There is another thread about this (I forget which one) but I'd take a legal opinion myself. On the other hand, if it's the job you want and you aren't planning on leaving for pastures greener.....?
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
I know of someone who was bonded by Bristows for 6 years and this was only for type conversion onto the Puma and IR.
In '99 Bond was bonding you for 3 years with a reducing bond.
snoogle I think I know which company you are talking about, I can only imagine they have been burned by people getting a conversion and then leaving .
I guess if one was paid a more handsome salary one would not contemplate of leaving or even think about joining.
Is it a horses for courses question?
In '99 Bond was bonding you for 3 years with a reducing bond.
snoogle I think I know which company you are talking about, I can only imagine they have been burned by people getting a conversion and then leaving .
I guess if one was paid a more handsome salary one would not contemplate of leaving or even think about joining.
Is it a horses for courses question?
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
From my basic knowledge of general employment law, it would suggest that a new employee signing a new contract will be legally enforceable whatever it says. However, an existing employee, made to sign a bond that isn't in their contract may well have grounds for not having it enforced.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
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From: UK
There may well be those with more legal knowledge than me (quite likely really) but in discussions with others I have been lead to believe/hope that there are limits to what you can be bonded for and how much. New qualifications (ratings etc) are one thing but surely it cannot be right and hopefully not legal to bond someone for a currency check. If it only costs say £5K for a type rating surely it cannot be reasonable to bond you for more than the cost.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 402
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From: Omnipresent
Why would the accounts department request you to declare hours of type training before the end of March? Surely training is not tax deductable!!!
Would such bonds not then be companies taking complete advantage of the competition for places. Those new cojo's, they'll sign anything we put in front of 'em!!!!!!!!!
Oooops, said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet.......
Would such bonds not then be companies taking complete advantage of the competition for places. Those new cojo's, they'll sign anything we put in front of 'em!!!!!!!!!
Oooops, said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet.......
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 338
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From: UK
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 89
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From: USA & UK
snoogle,
I believe these are called "Square bonds" and are becoming the norm in the FW world. A colleague of mine has recently been 'pooled' for 'flybe' with a very similar bonding system.
As to the legality - I know two folks who bailed out on bonds - one assures me he got away with it scot free - the other one was right royally stuffed.
I guess you signs your bond and takes your chance.
Given the figures you've quoted this must be for more than just an EC type rating - what's the rest of the story!
R1
I believe these are called "Square bonds" and are becoming the norm in the FW world. A colleague of mine has recently been 'pooled' for 'flybe' with a very similar bonding system.
As to the legality - I know two folks who bailed out on bonds - one assures me he got away with it scot free - the other one was right royally stuffed.
I guess you signs your bond and takes your chance.
Given the figures you've quoted this must be for more than just an EC type rating - what's the rest of the story!
R1
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 549
Likes: 14
From: The South
If this is the company I am thinking of they are also bonding you for your line training. Most of the line training can be carried out during operational flying with a training captain so it costs the company nothing.
I know one person who has challenged it on leaving and not paid anything. The company wanted to sign his bond on leaving and pay then! Hence the introduction of this bond.
FNW
I know one person who has challenged it on leaving and not paid anything. The company wanted to sign his bond on leaving and pay then! Hence the introduction of this bond.
FNW
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
The company I work for gave me a medium twin type and an initial IR. The bond was for three years on a reducing scale. All very fair I think. I am still with them after 9 years so it was a bit academic really.
All the best
All the best
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
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From: planet earth
The ex-chief pilot for a Middle East helicopter company signed a training bond 6 months after he had been to the AB139 ground school course in Italy and was duly licensed on the aircraft. Rumour has it the bond (2 years non pro-rata) was presented to him with "either sign it or good-bye". Believe it or not this was after he had been with the company for more more than 22 years. Sort of sucks, but then again the company he USED to work for does too. Seek legal advice and take it from there. Good luck.
Munch Munch
Munch Munch
Last edited by munchkins; 1st October 2006 at 02:31.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 102
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From: tahiti
just come on to this thread even though i am a fw jet jock. with regards to a reducing bond which i have which is over 5 years. i am with a uk operator but am looking to finish with aviation possibly for good before my time is up. what would my chances of coming to an amicable agreement over repayment terms. ie not pay anything. looking to leave aviation and pursue another career due stress related problems and would rather be poor and healthy than wealthy and dead. but with all things in life would not want to burn my bridges. any one know of ways to take a sabatical for 1-2 years, may even be the answer to my problems.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1
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From: .
Hello everyone, and sorry for resurrecting an old thread!
I was wondering what sort of bonds people in the UK are currently serving, and/or what people think is acceptable?
I ask because I have now learned that my bond is somewhat more onerous than other employees in the same company, for the same training
I would like to know what people think is acceptable bonding for a type rating (not an IR), mainly with regard to duration?
Many thanks
I was wondering what sort of bonds people in the UK are currently serving, and/or what people think is acceptable?
I ask because I have now learned that my bond is somewhat more onerous than other employees in the same company, for the same training
I would like to know what people think is acceptable bonding for a type rating (not an IR), mainly with regard to duration?
Many thanks
Last edited by Merlin75; 13th March 2007 at 10:13.