Long Distance Offshore Ops
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Cornwall
long range ops
The clients are located somewhere other than S. America but I'm just doing some background research courtesy of all the well-informed guys and gals out there. I haven't come across any surprises yet but some blanks have been filled in to help me get the whole picture - for which I'm grateful. Any more thoughts/comments/experiences are always welcome.
Geoffers
Geoffers
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From: Downeast
212man,
How does that square with JAR requirements....under what conditions can one plan to make an emergency landing on the rigs (ie tail rotor problems) or OEI for an S-61?
How does that square with JAR requirements....under what conditions can one plan to make an emergency landing on the rigs (ie tail rotor problems) or OEI for an S-61?
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Den Haag
SAS,
I think you'll find CASA is not JAR: call me old fashioned, but something to do with 8000 miles and all that. BHLA is not BHL as their pilots will frequently remind you (something to do with working 2 on 2 off and having 4 weeks leave PA, but still earning enough to have a ranch etc)
I think you'll find CASA is not JAR: call me old fashioned, but something to do with 8000 miles and all that. BHLA is not BHL as their pilots will frequently remind you (something to do with working 2 on 2 off and having 4 weeks leave PA, but still earning enough to have a ranch etc)
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Den Haag
SAS,
under a more serious note, you can nominate an offshore alternate if there is no land alternate. i.e. you cannot nominate an offshore alternate to increase payload if you could have used an land based alternate.
under a more serious note, you can nominate an offshore alternate if there is no land alternate. i.e. you cannot nominate an offshore alternate to increase payload if you could have used an land based alternate.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Shropshire
Hi Sas
From memory, offshore diversions in the UK were allowed for aircraft that could demonstrate single engine cat A (as was) helipad approaches. Bo 105 and AS 365C are two types that spring to mind, the S61 never came into this group. I'm not sure I would have wanted to take a tail rotor problem all the way back to shore in any case! A 105 single engine approach wouldn't have been an awfull lot of fun either!!!!
Cheers
TeeS
From memory, offshore diversions in the UK were allowed for aircraft that could demonstrate single engine cat A (as was) helipad approaches. Bo 105 and AS 365C are two types that spring to mind, the S61 never came into this group. I'm not sure I would have wanted to take a tail rotor problem all the way back to shore in any case! A 105 single engine approach wouldn't have been an awfull lot of fun either!!!!
Cheers
TeeS
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Aberdeen
I'm not sure I would have wanted to take a tail rotor problem all the way back to shore in any case!
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Texas
Offshore US the only requirement is an alternate landing site, which can be another platform, and this is just in case the destination deck becomes unusable for some reason. Some operators require a beach alternate for some aircraft, but the FAA doesn't really care. There are no legal requirements for an onshore alternate for any aircraft. The FAA's only requirement is fuel for destination plus 20 minutes.
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From: Ice Station Zebra
The longest single trip from Aberdeen is PD - Magnus. From memory (measured on many boring night shifts) is about 280nm.
I recall one weekend round trip being:
PD - Magnus
Magnus - Fulmar
Fulmar - somewhere else
somewhere else - PD
Mind you, the routing of a Bond Mk2 a couple of afternoons ago was involved:
PD - GA4 (nr Claire)
Claire - PM
PM - PB
PB - Schiehallion
Schiehallion - PD
We have a standing joke in the tower that anyone doing such an arduous routing (and we see some really convulted routings at weekends) has been caught doing unmentionable things to the chief pilot's daughter (apologies if he really does have a daughter!).
Odi
I recall one weekend round trip being:
PD - Magnus
Magnus - Fulmar
Fulmar - somewhere else
somewhere else - PD
Mind you, the routing of a Bond Mk2 a couple of afternoons ago was involved:
PD - GA4 (nr Claire)
Claire - PM
PM - PB
PB - Schiehallion
Schiehallion - PD
We have a standing joke in the tower that anyone doing such an arduous routing (and we see some really convulted routings at weekends) has been caught doing unmentionable things to the chief pilot's daughter (apologies if he really does have a daughter!).
Odi
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Northern Ireland
North Sea
Yes we do get some long old trips on the weekends.
Do tend to be round robins.
We always use Onshore Alternates.
For the Magnus(284nm), North Alwyn(246nm) we used the (ERA) Enroute Alternate which allowed you to discount the extra 10% of fuel required up to an abeam point of Sumburgh which was 165nm from Aberdeen.
The Magnus/North Alwyn nearly always went through Longside/Sumburgh or the MCP rig because of the distance and Old Super Puma Mk1 aircraft.
The Norweigans did previously use an Onshore alternate until they were on station and then used Offshore diversions until going back onshore. Do not know if this still happens.
As was stated earlier there is no point in having an Offshore alternate as you do not know what sort of emergency you are liable to have, i.e. tail rotor control problems.
Do tend to be round robins.
We always use Onshore Alternates.
For the Magnus(284nm), North Alwyn(246nm) we used the (ERA) Enroute Alternate which allowed you to discount the extra 10% of fuel required up to an abeam point of Sumburgh which was 165nm from Aberdeen.
The Magnus/North Alwyn nearly always went through Longside/Sumburgh or the MCP rig because of the distance and Old Super Puma Mk1 aircraft.
The Norweigans did previously use an Onshore alternate until they were on station and then used Offshore diversions until going back onshore. Do not know if this still happens.
As was stated earlier there is no point in having an Offshore alternate as you do not know what sort of emergency you are liable to have, i.e. tail rotor control problems.
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Spain
I recall that Bristows, when the AS332 first came into service, were able to use offshore alternates. Later on, in the late 90's, only 332's flying for one particular client, in one particular field, (the Beryl, I think??), could use them, and that was only under specific circumstances. Memory is fading with advancing years, so no doubt someone out there will correct my misconceptions. 
We also used to use offshore alternates for the Bell 212 in the early 80's.
The S61 was never allowed to use offshore alternates, well, not while I flew it, 89 - present.
We also used to use offshore alternates for the Bell 212 in the early 80's.
The S61 was never allowed to use offshore alternates, well, not while I flew it, 89 - present.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Ice Station Zebra
Out of interest, how do you define "abeam Sumburgh" on a trip from PD to, say, North Alwyn?
Do you take it as the point at which you are nearest to PB before you then start to move away again, ie roughly south east abeam?
Odi
Do you take it as the point at which you are nearest to PB before you then start to move away again, ie roughly south east abeam?
Odi
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Over the Hill and far away
Oz S61
Interesting thread. Around the time John Eacott was referring to with the Wx-60, the Queen of the Skies (S61) was flying similar legs with offshore alternates. The alternates were not rigs but areas of sheltered waters (reefs) and the crews were at the time required to demonstrate single engine water landings as part of the training. Never required operationally.
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: In the Haven of Peace
TeeS
You didn't have to have Cat A helipad. Back in the late 70s, early 80's in Bristow we used to have to be qualified for SEDLs (single engine deck landings). When the offshore-based 212s got very heavy with all the fixed SAR gear, like doppler, we often used to take off without any shore diversion fuel. In the event of an engine failure you had to burn off fuel down to your (pre-calculated) single engine weight and then you basically flew a fairly steep approach to a point at which you overpitched on to the deck (we had no single-engine hover ability). There was an approved graph for calculating the weight and pilots had to be checked out on single-engine landings every 90 days (I think it was). Many of us were unhappy as to what we'd have to do in the event of, for example, a tail rotor failure.
You didn't have to have Cat A helipad. Back in the late 70s, early 80's in Bristow we used to have to be qualified for SEDLs (single engine deck landings). When the offshore-based 212s got very heavy with all the fixed SAR gear, like doppler, we often used to take off without any shore diversion fuel. In the event of an engine failure you had to burn off fuel down to your (pre-calculated) single engine weight and then you basically flew a fairly steep approach to a point at which you overpitched on to the deck (we had no single-engine hover ability). There was an approved graph for calculating the weight and pilots had to be checked out on single-engine landings every 90 days (I think it was). Many of us were unhappy as to what we'd have to do in the event of, for example, a tail rotor failure.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: taking up the hold
Mayne-Bristow Wessex
From www.skyweaver.co.uk
http://209.196.171.35/article_Ianclark.htm
ANOTHER BRISTOW FIRST
By Ian Clark. (Originally written 1968)300 Miles North of the Tropic of Capricorn (that mysterious line that marks the southernmost declination of the sun), lies the little township of Broome. Situated on the North Western coast of Western Australia, Broome - present day multi-racial population 1,500 - was until recently the crowded, colourful and rowdy centre of the Australian pearling industry. It now houses the base camp for a unique Burmah Oil Company drilling venture, and is the site of the latest operation of Bristow Helicopters.
In September 1967 an advance Bristow crew arrived in Perth, WA to commence assembling a Wessex 60 twin turbine Helicopter, G-AVEW. This helicopter similar to those used on the North Sea by Bristows but with an additional long Range tank fitted, had been crated and shipped from the UK a couple of months earlier. After assembly and test flying, the aircraft was ferried the 1,300 miles North to Broome and in early October operations for Burmah began.
The Wessex 60 which cruises at 100 Knots and is cleared for operations in temperatures of 115 F, is supplying the offshore Drilling vessel ‘Investigator’ drilling Burmah Oil’s first wildcat well in Western Australia. Floating in the Timor Sea on the edge of the Ashmore Reef, the Investigator is drilling in 130 ft. of water, 365 nautical miles north of Broome and less than 80 nm. from Indonesia The flight between Broome and the Ashmore Reef is the longest offshore rig supply flight ever undertaken by helicopter and is another first for Bristows. To achieve this flight, unmanned refuelling stations have been set up along the route on two tiny, conveniently situated, coral islands. The longest sector is 140 nm and refuelling is undertaken by designated crews from the 13/14 passengers carried. Initially a crew of 2 was carried but dispensation was eventually obtained from the Australian D.C.A. for single pilot operations. The pilot is in contact on HF radio at all times with Broome or Darwin and 24 hour Non Directional Beacons situated at the refuelling points, are used for navigational purposes.
Drilling crews leave Perth by DC3 at 9 o’clock on the evening prior to the crew change. They arrive at Broome 8 hours later where, after a hasty breakfast, they board the helicopter for the 4 hour flight to the rig. Refuelling and a quick lunch for the pilot on the rig and the helicopter takes off for the return flight. Two refuelling stops and 4 hours later the helicopter is back in Broome and the drilling crew boards the DC3 for the 8 hour flight back to Perth. Crew changes take place twice weekly and extra service flights bring the total flying to over 100 hours each month. The long flight is further complicated by the uncertain weather conditions, since the whole area lies in the Australian Cyclone belt. During the months of December through February winds in excess of 100 mph can sweep across the route of the helicopter. Flying however continues during this period with the help of Darwin Meteorological facilities who accurately plot the Cyclones courses and give ample forewarnings for shipping and aircraft.
After completion off Ashmore Reef the operation will be moving 250 miles south to Point Samson to drill 2 wildcat wells 70 miles off the coast, which compared to Ashmore will be a relatively easy task for the helicopter pilots and rig crews. At the end of 1968 present plans call for further exploration in the vicinity of Ashmore Reef with a possibility of locations even further out from Broome, which will be yet another challenge for Bristow Helicopters.
http://209.196.171.35/article_Ianclark.htm
ANOTHER BRISTOW FIRST
By Ian Clark. (Originally written 1968)300 Miles North of the Tropic of Capricorn (that mysterious line that marks the southernmost declination of the sun), lies the little township of Broome. Situated on the North Western coast of Western Australia, Broome - present day multi-racial population 1,500 - was until recently the crowded, colourful and rowdy centre of the Australian pearling industry. It now houses the base camp for a unique Burmah Oil Company drilling venture, and is the site of the latest operation of Bristow Helicopters.
In September 1967 an advance Bristow crew arrived in Perth, WA to commence assembling a Wessex 60 twin turbine Helicopter, G-AVEW. This helicopter similar to those used on the North Sea by Bristows but with an additional long Range tank fitted, had been crated and shipped from the UK a couple of months earlier. After assembly and test flying, the aircraft was ferried the 1,300 miles North to Broome and in early October operations for Burmah began.
The Wessex 60 which cruises at 100 Knots and is cleared for operations in temperatures of 115 F, is supplying the offshore Drilling vessel ‘Investigator’ drilling Burmah Oil’s first wildcat well in Western Australia. Floating in the Timor Sea on the edge of the Ashmore Reef, the Investigator is drilling in 130 ft. of water, 365 nautical miles north of Broome and less than 80 nm. from Indonesia The flight between Broome and the Ashmore Reef is the longest offshore rig supply flight ever undertaken by helicopter and is another first for Bristows. To achieve this flight, unmanned refuelling stations have been set up along the route on two tiny, conveniently situated, coral islands. The longest sector is 140 nm and refuelling is undertaken by designated crews from the 13/14 passengers carried. Initially a crew of 2 was carried but dispensation was eventually obtained from the Australian D.C.A. for single pilot operations. The pilot is in contact on HF radio at all times with Broome or Darwin and 24 hour Non Directional Beacons situated at the refuelling points, are used for navigational purposes.
Drilling crews leave Perth by DC3 at 9 o’clock on the evening prior to the crew change. They arrive at Broome 8 hours later where, after a hasty breakfast, they board the helicopter for the 4 hour flight to the rig. Refuelling and a quick lunch for the pilot on the rig and the helicopter takes off for the return flight. Two refuelling stops and 4 hours later the helicopter is back in Broome and the drilling crew boards the DC3 for the 8 hour flight back to Perth. Crew changes take place twice weekly and extra service flights bring the total flying to over 100 hours each month. The long flight is further complicated by the uncertain weather conditions, since the whole area lies in the Australian Cyclone belt. During the months of December through February winds in excess of 100 mph can sweep across the route of the helicopter. Flying however continues during this period with the help of Darwin Meteorological facilities who accurately plot the Cyclones courses and give ample forewarnings for shipping and aircraft.
After completion off Ashmore Reef the operation will be moving 250 miles south to Point Samson to drill 2 wildcat wells 70 miles off the coast, which compared to Ashmore will be a relatively easy task for the helicopter pilots and rig crews. At the end of 1968 present plans call for further exploration in the vicinity of Ashmore Reef with a possibility of locations even further out from Broome, which will be yet another challenge for Bristow Helicopters.
Combine Operations
Joined: May 2005
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From: U.K.
What about the shortest, then? Mine was about ten yards - well, maybe a bit more - from the rig on which we were based to the platform to which it was attached. If the bridge between the two installations was out of service, we had to shuttle people to and fro.
The first time I did it, immediately after take-off, the copilot put the heater on full (in summer), and switched on the radar. I managed to stop him retracting the undercarriage.
More time spent on deck than in the air. Flight planning was a bitch.
The first time I did it, immediately after take-off, the copilot put the heater on full (in summer), and switched on the radar. I managed to stop him retracting the undercarriage.
More time spent on deck than in the air. Flight planning was a bitch.
Joined: May 2002
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From: Downeast
ERA in Alaska did some long distance flying out to the Chukchi Sea as I recall along with doing IFR/IMC sling load work.
Perhaps an ERA hand can provide some details of the early Alaska work with Chinooks.
Perhaps an ERA hand can provide some details of the early Alaska work with Chinooks.