"Supervised" solo flight
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"Supervised" solo flight
Had a chap rock up here with an American PPL (H) who had gone through the whole syllabus over there and NEVER ACTUALLY FLEW SOLO.
His "solo" flights always included his instructor, presumably some insurance thing. They called it "supervised solo flying" which strikes me as a contradiction in terms. The standard of his flying was also not up to our level and it was only after a further 15 hours of training here (RSA) that we sent him (unsupervised) solo.
How common is this practice among US flight schools and is it actually legal?
His "solo" flights always included his instructor, presumably some insurance thing. They called it "supervised solo flying" which strikes me as a contradiction in terms. The standard of his flying was also not up to our level and it was only after a further 15 hours of training here (RSA) that we sent him (unsupervised) solo.
How common is this practice among US flight schools and is it actually legal?
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No, if he has a PPL and he didn't solo then something is wrong, "supervised" solos aren't solo flights per the regs, normally I would think of supervised as when an instructor watches you do patterns.. not that he would actually be in the cockpit with you, then it's not solo. Sounds like someone got ripped off, I have no idea how an examiner would let that one by unless they didn't know. From my understanding it is certainly not legal, and definitely not common practice. CFI supervision under most insurance policies simply means that the CFI approves each flight, the student can solo as long as the CFI has approved it.
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Joyrider,
If it was April 1st I would have assumed this was an April fool.
I think he has been feeding you something still steaming. If he's truely are a PPL(H) holder then he'll know his way around the FAR/AIM and will probably have a copy. Have him find and read out to you the requirements for a PPL(H) especially the section detailing and defining the solo flights and have him explain why he hasn't done any?
In the meantime you may wish to advance read - ss 61.109 (c) and ss 61.87a
Then maybe you'll visit the FAA website and confirm with some basic details whether the fellow in front of you legitimately holds the licence or has "borrowed" it.
From my recollection a "supervised solo" usually meant your instructor was present at the airfield whilst you did a few circuits as opposed to being off on a cross country where he had little ability to watch your actions.
IMHO the flying skill requirements to obtain an FAA PPL(H) are a tad more challenging than the JAA requirements given the solo cross country elements.
If it was April 1st I would have assumed this was an April fool.
I think he has been feeding you something still steaming. If he's truely are a PPL(H) holder then he'll know his way around the FAR/AIM and will probably have a copy. Have him find and read out to you the requirements for a PPL(H) especially the section detailing and defining the solo flights and have him explain why he hasn't done any?
In the meantime you may wish to advance read - ss 61.109 (c) and ss 61.87a
Then maybe you'll visit the FAA website and confirm with some basic details whether the fellow in front of you legitimately holds the licence or has "borrowed" it.
From my recollection a "supervised solo" usually meant your instructor was present at the airfield whilst you did a few circuits as opposed to being off on a cross country where he had little ability to watch your actions.
IMHO the flying skill requirements to obtain an FAA PPL(H) are a tad more challenging than the JAA requirements given the solo cross country elements.
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Joyrider,
If what he told you is true, then it is impossible for him for hold a FAA PPL. You're required to have 10 hours solo time; solo time defined as being the sole occupant of the aircraft. Of that 10 hours, 3 hours needs to be x-c, with one flight greater than 100nm and landing at 3 points.
Supervised solo usually means instructor went up with student for first pattern(circuit), then instructor gets out of helo and watches student do 3 or 4 more on his own. Supervised solos are only done once or twice, then students are set free, with the only requirement being they get an endorsement from instructor before going x-c.
If what he told you is true, then it is impossible for him for hold a FAA PPL. You're required to have 10 hours solo time; solo time defined as being the sole occupant of the aircraft. Of that 10 hours, 3 hours needs to be x-c, with one flight greater than 100nm and landing at 3 points.
Supervised solo usually means instructor went up with student for first pattern(circuit), then instructor gets out of helo and watches student do 3 or 4 more on his own. Supervised solos are only done once or twice, then students are set free, with the only requirement being they get an endorsement from instructor before going x-c.
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Interesting that it was in RSA where I got an offer regarding gyrocopter training where "solo" flying was with the instructor on board due to insurance requirements! Never did any gyrocopter training..
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I recall a Rotorheads(?) thread some time ago where a student went for his commercial flight test in Canada in a 206. When the examiner looked at his logbook he saw that all or most of the "solo" time was in a 206 with an instructor because of insurance requirements. He therefore didn't meet the minimum requirements and I seem to recall that he was denied the flight test. I don't know how it ended but it must have come as a shock to the unsuspecting student.
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So I can enlist onto a flying course, do a number of hours flying then go to McDonalds/Burger King etc in the high street and get a license just on my say so. No forms to fill in, no licensed examiner, no check on medical or proof of meeting minimum requirements.........wow!!!...is this normal, the FAA way with many back doors from which students are able to get licenses. Could be a language problem of course in that 'solo' in American means something different to the English meaning. Trouble with us in the old world, we get behind the times and have standards which we cling to.
This dubious student must have been particularly dumb, firstly to pay out for the training and secondly to believe that there was no requirement to do any study. Had he ever got the manuals out he might have come across some rules and regulations.
A pretty sharp outfit that he trained with....probably was paid up front and did a couple of hours and sent him away with a license.
I could have got a university degree by just writing to an address in the USA, are flying licenses just a complex?
This dubious student must have been particularly dumb, firstly to pay out for the training and secondly to believe that there was no requirement to do any study. Had he ever got the manuals out he might have come across some rules and regulations.
A pretty sharp outfit that he trained with....probably was paid up front and did a couple of hours and sent him away with a license.
I could have got a university degree by just writing to an address in the USA, are flying licenses just a complex?
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It's totally against the rules. Solo means "sole occupant of the aircraft".
The only way this could have been done is the instructor didn't sign for dual instruction. This is a very serious offence, the details of the school and instructor should definitely be forwarded to the FAA. The examiner checks the logbooks but from the logbook he can't tell whether the guy was really flying solo or not.
When you fill in the application for the checkride form 8710, where you give a breakdown of hours, you sign and declare telling the truth. The instructor has to sign as well, and he commits fraud as well.
The only way this could have been done is the instructor didn't sign for dual instruction. This is a very serious offence, the details of the school and instructor should definitely be forwarded to the FAA. The examiner checks the logbooks but from the logbook he can't tell whether the guy was really flying solo or not.
When you fill in the application for the checkride form 8710, where you give a breakdown of hours, you sign and declare telling the truth. The instructor has to sign as well, and he commits fraud as well.
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Not possilbe
US Federal Aviation Regulations require 20 hours as the sole occupant of an airplane before a student can take his PPL check ride. It is not possible for a private pilot to have never flown solo.
Doug Daniel, Certified Flight Instructor, Airplanes, Single and Multiengine, Land, Instruments
Doug Daniel, Certified Flight Instructor, Airplanes, Single and Multiengine, Land, Instruments
Not possilbe
US Federal Aviation Regulations require 20 hours as the sole occupant of an airplane before a student can take his PPL check ride. It is not possible for a private pilot to have never flown solo.
Doug Daniel, Certified Flight Instructor, Airplanes, Single and Multiengine, Land, Instruments
US Federal Aviation Regulations require 20 hours as the sole occupant of an airplane before a student can take his PPL check ride. It is not possible for a private pilot to have never flown solo.
Doug Daniel, Certified Flight Instructor, Airplanes, Single and Multiengine, Land, Instruments
You might want to go read the FAR's again. Try starting with FAR 61.109.
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Might I suggest that we ask about how important members of the Royal family obtained their licences?
Of course there are people who have never flown 'solo'.
They don't need to!
Does anyone believe that Prince Andrew flew solo around the Faulklands?
Can anyone provide a photo of any of the royal princes flying solo?
Of course there are people who have never flown 'solo'.
They don't need to!
Does anyone believe that Prince Andrew flew solo around the Faulklands?
Can anyone provide a photo of any of the royal princes flying solo?
the beater
wayward example I think......
not sure how far down the ppl(H) route HRH is likely to go - and I doubt he'll ever use it for starting point towards a career in rotary, if he indeed holds a licence blah blah.
What our Royalty do with their train set is up to them and the powers that be and I doubt they have ever tried to use any PPL/cpl/atpl priveleges.......
does that make sense as I'm still laughing at state JAR/FAA/EASA/JAA have got into re licences/contradictions LASOR bible of contradictions etc etc
wayward example I think......
not sure how far down the ppl(H) route HRH is likely to go - and I doubt he'll ever use it for starting point towards a career in rotary, if he indeed holds a licence blah blah.
What our Royalty do with their train set is up to them and the powers that be and I doubt they have ever tried to use any PPL/cpl/atpl priveleges.......
does that make sense as I'm still laughing at state JAR/FAA/EASA/JAA have got into re licences/contradictions LASOR bible of contradictions etc etc
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EESDL.
OK, you've got a point; but I'm sure that there are people out there that think that the more senior members of the Royal Family have actually gone through what the rest of us have had to in order to get a licence.
They do actually believe that Prince Andrew did something other than fly in the opposite direction to the action with an RAF instructor. The only royal that I know of that has flown solo is Sarah Ferguson.
OK, you've got a point; but I'm sure that there are people out there that think that the more senior members of the Royal Family have actually gone through what the rest of us have had to in order to get a licence.
They do actually believe that Prince Andrew did something other than fly in the opposite direction to the action with an RAF instructor. The only royal that I know of that has flown solo is Sarah Ferguson.
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Does anyone believe that Prince Andrew flew solo around the Faulklands?
He did solo, however, on Bulldog (fixed-wing) and Gazelle.
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