Pilots who went on strike let go by PHI
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GLSNightpilot said, "Everyone, everywhere, is competing for labor, one way or another. If the pay for offshore pilots gets high enough, it will suck off pilots from elsewhere, and those employers will then be forced to pay more to keep experienced pilots."
That is the battle in a nutshell. You can bet every management dollar in the helo industry is looking at how to help PHI stop the pay raises (and the even more important solidarity that the strike can weld).
Those who think I hi-jack the thread to discuss the fundamental differences between the Norway way of doing bidness and the Gulf are wrong. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push, is about the strike, and all its corners.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.
OTOH, anyone who thinks pay will be higher with no unions is just plain stupid.
Best case scenario: PHI caves, and the Union bends a bit and the strike ends with good pay and proves that there is solidarity. It spreads to other sectors of the US helo industry as it proves money can be made, pilots can be reasonable in strikes.
How does this happen? Too few scabs at too high a temperary pay force PHI to relent. No violence or stupid union acts (they have been gentlemen so far). No Federal intervention (unlikely just before elections, highly likely otherwise when you have the Rabid Business Government in office - which BTW is why tottigol makes agood point, the current US government does not transport free markets where its Army is, does it?)).
Worst case scenario: Union is broken by PHI toughness (subcontracts from competing operators pick up the traffic, making the pilots for those operators unwitting scabs). This proves that pilots are chattel to operators everywhere in the US.
That is the battle in a nutshell. You can bet every management dollar in the helo industry is looking at how to help PHI stop the pay raises (and the even more important solidarity that the strike can weld).
Those who think I hi-jack the thread to discuss the fundamental differences between the Norway way of doing bidness and the Gulf are wrong. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push, is about the strike, and all its corners.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.
OTOH, anyone who thinks pay will be higher with no unions is just plain stupid.
Best case scenario: PHI caves, and the Union bends a bit and the strike ends with good pay and proves that there is solidarity. It spreads to other sectors of the US helo industry as it proves money can be made, pilots can be reasonable in strikes.
How does this happen? Too few scabs at too high a temperary pay force PHI to relent. No violence or stupid union acts (they have been gentlemen so far). No Federal intervention (unlikely just before elections, highly likely otherwise when you have the Rabid Business Government in office - which BTW is why tottigol makes agood point, the current US government does not transport free markets where its Army is, does it?)).
Worst case scenario: Union is broken by PHI toughness (subcontracts from competing operators pick up the traffic, making the pilots for those operators unwitting scabs). This proves that pilots are chattel to operators everywhere in the US.
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CHC is owned by the Norwegian Goverment ?? And Bristow too ?Thanks for the enlightment
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No wellington (like a boot, eh?) but the state-owned oil companies make them adhere to contracts that tell them what to do, and they have to use union workers to do it, and those workers have set salaries, wellington. These things are illegal in the US!
I am amazed at how few of us can connect the dot, the single dot, let alone a few in sequence. If you have the moxy to strike, or to tell your buddies across the sea to strike, at least have some idea what you are fighting, and how you won, so you can pass it on to the US guys! In Europe, you won this way:
1) Europe = Strong politically powerful unions that are bowed to by companies and government.
US = Weak unions, relatively poorly supported by government (and detested by Republicans) and not respected by management
2) Europe = State owned oil companies, with strong sense of "social duty" and usually union leadership on their boards.
US = Private companies with US leases that allow rape and pillage without any recourse to the "owner" of the oil (the taxpayer).
3) Europe = A strong tradition, back to the middle ages, of a State where all things are granted by the State, which is divinely right, and not argued with. Laws are adhered to by everyone older than 3 years. Nobody argues with the system. Can't fire someone for anything short of murdering their boss. Lay-offs are the subject of front page news, and management is called to committees to explain what they are doing for the poor sods.
US = Free-for-all with a totally different attitude. pack up and drift off if your check is pink one week. Tough isn't it?
I am amazed at how few of us can connect the dot, the single dot, let alone a few in sequence. If you have the moxy to strike, or to tell your buddies across the sea to strike, at least have some idea what you are fighting, and how you won, so you can pass it on to the US guys! In Europe, you won this way:
1) Europe = Strong politically powerful unions that are bowed to by companies and government.
US = Weak unions, relatively poorly supported by government (and detested by Republicans) and not respected by management
2) Europe = State owned oil companies, with strong sense of "social duty" and usually union leadership on their boards.
US = Private companies with US leases that allow rape and pillage without any recourse to the "owner" of the oil (the taxpayer).
3) Europe = A strong tradition, back to the middle ages, of a State where all things are granted by the State, which is divinely right, and not argued with. Laws are adhered to by everyone older than 3 years. Nobody argues with the system. Can't fire someone for anything short of murdering their boss. Lay-offs are the subject of front page news, and management is called to committees to explain what they are doing for the poor sods.
US = Free-for-all with a totally different attitude. pack up and drift off if your check is pink one week. Tough isn't it?
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When CHC&proud mentioned a 90% membership in the union.....what might the remaining 10% be doing ?
Your logic is flawed, and your knowledge is at best poor.
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Those who think I hi-jack the thread to discuss the fundamental differences between the Norway way of doing bidness and the Gulf are wrong. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push, is about the strike, and all its corners.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.
I support the strikers (who worked for 2 1/2 years while trying to get management to listen to them) and also support realistic setting of goals. Those who think that national citizens of a socialist country that owns the oil and owns the only oil company will get the same as free-market pilots who walk into a service company competing with others is smoking funny cigarettes.
The air tranport services are today provided by CHC Helikopter Service and Norsk Helikopter, a company partly owned by Bristow. Others have tried to get a piece of the market as well, but lately none of them with any success. A smaller new company will have a challenge matching the rates that the two large ones can offer, due to a number of factors.
The only machinery in service are twin engine ifr 19 seaters + a few Dolphins and S76 used for SAR and interrig shuttle.The oilcompanies are quite picky on safety issues due to the rigworker unions, so single engine operations with a singlepilot VFR is not an option here.
And, without a pilots union, I guess my salary could easily be about half of what I make now, but that's not an experiment I'd like to try out in the real world. Coming to think of it, as always, it's a lot cheaper to learn from other peoples mistakes...
Feel free to visit the website of the Local108, and please make a financial contribution. They are my heroes these days, and I consider my donation a very good investment in my own future.
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Surreal off topic claims
Ladies and Gentlemen
The petroleum industry in the North Sea involves 4 countries: the UK, Denmark, Holland and Norway. The major producers of oil and gas in the region are the United Kingdom and Norway.
A large number of oil companies from the US and Europe are competing for the right to any and all new oil fields. As a matter of fact, numerous US oil companies are operators of oil fields in the North Sea. You might have heard of small companies such as: Exxon, Conoco Phillips, Marathon, just to mention a few.
As a matter of fact, the US oil company Phillips made the first find in Norway, back in 1966. The oil field was named the Ekofisk field. It proved to be a huge oil field, which will stay in production for decades.
Europe consists of more than 30 countries. As far as the political systems, they vary a great deal. The same goes for the union aspect. In general it would be fair to say that unions neither runs companies, nor do they determine the outcome of strategic business decisions.
Keep in mind that CHC owns 100% of CHC Scotia in the UK, Helikopter Service in Norway, CHC Ireland, CHC Denmark and CHC Netherlands. The corporation is not friendly towards unions, and there are no free rides for anyone in the group. It's all business.
CAUTION: One of the posters is not up to speed when it comes to the political systems and business practises in Europe. He probably should have paid better attention in school. Please do not take silly, emotional statements at face value. In stead, search on Google for "Europe", "Norway", United Kingdom", "European Union" or similar, and get some facts.
The petroleum industry in the North Sea involves 4 countries: the UK, Denmark, Holland and Norway. The major producers of oil and gas in the region are the United Kingdom and Norway.
A large number of oil companies from the US and Europe are competing for the right to any and all new oil fields. As a matter of fact, numerous US oil companies are operators of oil fields in the North Sea. You might have heard of small companies such as: Exxon, Conoco Phillips, Marathon, just to mention a few.
As a matter of fact, the US oil company Phillips made the first find in Norway, back in 1966. The oil field was named the Ekofisk field. It proved to be a huge oil field, which will stay in production for decades.
Europe consists of more than 30 countries. As far as the political systems, they vary a great deal. The same goes for the union aspect. In general it would be fair to say that unions neither runs companies, nor do they determine the outcome of strategic business decisions.
Keep in mind that CHC owns 100% of CHC Scotia in the UK, Helikopter Service in Norway, CHC Ireland, CHC Denmark and CHC Netherlands. The corporation is not friendly towards unions, and there are no free rides for anyone in the group. It's all business.
CAUTION: One of the posters is not up to speed when it comes to the political systems and business practises in Europe. He probably should have paid better attention in school. Please do not take silly, emotional statements at face value. In stead, search on Google for "Europe", "Norway", United Kingdom", "European Union" or similar, and get some facts.
Mr.Squirrell, I think you ought to ask for a reimbursement of your tutiton fees.
Whomever was your teacher ran all the way to the bank laughing.
Since you are a self appointed expert of pilots pay values, can you explain to the rest of us why there is not such a disparity in pay between US and European AIRLINE Pilots as compared to Helicopter Pilots?
I have one answer, but you may not like it.
Whomever was your teacher ran all the way to the bank laughing.
Since you are a self appointed expert of pilots pay values, can you explain to the rest of us why there is not such a disparity in pay between US and European AIRLINE Pilots as compared to Helicopter Pilots?
I have one answer, but you may not like it.
One of the teaching from my parents always reminded me to keep my mouth shut when I did not know what I was talking about.
I hope the average American has a better knowledge of the World outside.
US = Free-for-all with a totally different attitude. pack up and drift off if your check is pink one week. Tough isn't it?
Guess it pretty much sums it for your position.
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"The striking pilots may have lost thier own jobs and pay packets but they are also collectively responsible for those less fortunate and less well paid employees who may also lose their jobs as a result of this situation. Surely one of the first principals of collectivism?"
And of course the company has written to each and every Pilot telling them they will NEVER return, or "Permenently Replaced". Where are they planning on finding 600 Pilots?
"These things are illegal in the US!"
Now there is a term in the U.S. which translates today to "how much money does it cost me to get it done and which politician(s) do I have to buy"
And of course the company has written to each and every Pilot telling them they will NEVER return, or "Permenently Replaced". Where are they planning on finding 600 Pilots?
"These things are illegal in the US!"
Now there is a term in the U.S. which translates today to "how much money does it cost me to get it done and which politician(s) do I have to buy"
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Mr. Squirrel, ..
.. do you like feeling having the power ???
".. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push .."
Please don't let it come over your head. It has happened to a certain Texas Cowboy with smoking guns and I must say. It's not a pretty sight what is happening
..
Last question to you since this thread has come off-track. Is this your view of the world. You said we are socialist over here, well, at least expressing many of us is - almost commies
- did I narrow it down pretty good, your view of the world ??
Sad sad saaaad !!
..
chc&proud - well spoken ..
- madman
".. This thread, which I started and which I can evaporate with a single button-push .."
Please don't let it come over your head. It has happened to a certain Texas Cowboy with smoking guns and I must say. It's not a pretty sight what is happening
..Last question to you since this thread has come off-track. Is this your view of the world. You said we are socialist over here, well, at least expressing many of us is - almost commies
- did I narrow it down pretty good, your view of the world ??Sad sad saaaad !!
..chc&proud - well spoken
..- madman
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Obviously Madman is not what one would call a Supporter of the US (unless his country needed support)
So open up the Aquavit and enjoy your Winter. Can we get back to the topic??
So open up the Aquavit and enjoy your Winter. Can we get back to the topic??
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If the US wants supporters, it has to be supportive. That is not happening. Spit on the brown people, and the brown people will spit on you, or even strap bombs to themselves before they do something worse. What we have is the Eternal War On The Brown People, and we're losing. Lumping Europeans in with them doesn't help in the least.
Stan is our most reliable source right now. It seems as if PHI is throwing money left and right in the attempt to break the union.
Unfortunate as it is, it showing the colors of a lot of "newcomers" and demonstrating the shortsightedness of several more.
It seems as if the "dot com" wall street generation made it to the cockpit of helicopters as well.
Unfortunate as it is, it showing the colors of a lot of "newcomers" and demonstrating the shortsightedness of several more.
It seems as if the "dot com" wall street generation made it to the cockpit of helicopters as well.
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"dot com" people
Hopefully the "dot com" pilots are not a larger crowd ..
One day they will experience it's like peeing in ones pantys. Nice and warm in the beginning, but a bit later it becomes very icecold and nasty
..
They will experience that working for a "dot com" company is not like working for a helicopter operator - or at least, it shouldn't be ..
They will experience that pilots stand together - or at least, they should ..
Otherwise we will end up with FW lifestyle - everyone for him/herself and selfpaid everything because I WANT A SEAT IN A BIG HELICOPTER NOOOOWW !!
- madman
One day they will experience it's like peeing in ones pantys. Nice and warm in the beginning, but a bit later it becomes very icecold and nasty
..They will experience that working for a "dot com" company is not like working for a helicopter operator - or at least, it shouldn't be ..
They will experience that pilots stand together - or at least, they should ..
Otherwise we will end up with FW lifestyle - everyone for him/herself and selfpaid everything because I WANT A SEAT IN A BIG HELICOPTER NOOOOWW
!!- madman
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Speaking of dotcomers. The Stock PHII is not faltering much. sitting around 30.05 52 week high was 41
Lots of Press time but all PHI generated...... So far they may be holding their own. Lets hear what the bell says monday.
OFF TOPIC
"What we have is the Eternal War On The Brown People, and we're losing."
You know that could change overnight, if someone had the balls. We are no longer in need of losing ground troops were it not for the touchy feely crowd.
Lots of Press time but all PHI generated...... So far they may be holding their own. Lets hear what the bell says monday.
OFF TOPIC
"What we have is the Eternal War On The Brown People, and we're losing."
You know that could change overnight, if someone had the balls. We are no longer in need of losing ground troops were it not for the touchy feely crowd.
I am not expecting much of a drop @ PHI, let's remember that the current owner has at least 51% of voting stocks.
Mr. Gonsoulin excercises a tight control over what information gets out and what not.
Not much of the turmoil has made it to the traditional financial news, at least not the pilots' side of the news.
What I'd like to know is how the fleet has changed in the last five years or so, what's the percentage of medium/heavy twins compared to the light VFR airframes.
Mr. Gonsoulin excercises a tight control over what information gets out and what not.
Not much of the turmoil has made it to the traditional financial news, at least not the pilots' side of the news.
What I'd like to know is how the fleet has changed in the last five years or so, what's the percentage of medium/heavy twins compared to the light VFR airframes.
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I'm too busy to stay tuned to this thread 24/7. The map of the world was hillarious, but hopefully does not do justice to the average US citizen.
Everyone should keep in mind that the US, Canada and Europe traditionally have been and remain real close allies and friends, despite differences in opinion on some matters.
This is evident by the way many of us focus on the struggle at PHI. The vast majority of colleagues worldwide wholeheartedly support our colleagues in Local 108, hoping and praying for a sensible and balanced solution to the unresolved issues.
If Local 108 succeeds in securing a decent deal, this will directly help strenghten the resolve of pilot unions in the US and Canada, since they all are members of OPEIU.
Non-union opeators in the same region will more likely than not follow suit, adjusting the terms and conditions to remain competitive in the labor market. Otherwise they will loose too many pilots.
For pilot unions outside the region, such as Europe, it would encourage us to stay the course and continue the work of creating a level playing field as far as terms and conditions are conserned.
All helicopter pilots have a vested interest in the outcome of this battle. All of us should do our utmost to ensure that our friends and colleagues in Local 108 feel the support.
Everyone should keep in mind that the US, Canada and Europe traditionally have been and remain real close allies and friends, despite differences in opinion on some matters.
This is evident by the way many of us focus on the struggle at PHI. The vast majority of colleagues worldwide wholeheartedly support our colleagues in Local 108, hoping and praying for a sensible and balanced solution to the unresolved issues.
If Local 108 succeeds in securing a decent deal, this will directly help strenghten the resolve of pilot unions in the US and Canada, since they all are members of OPEIU.
Non-union opeators in the same region will more likely than not follow suit, adjusting the terms and conditions to remain competitive in the labor market. Otherwise they will loose too many pilots.
For pilot unions outside the region, such as Europe, it would encourage us to stay the course and continue the work of creating a level playing field as far as terms and conditions are conserned.
All helicopter pilots have a vested interest in the outcome of this battle. All of us should do our utmost to ensure that our friends and colleagues in Local 108 feel the support.
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Over the past few years PHI has bought mostly S92s and S76s. The intent is to get rid of the aging 214ST and B412 aircraft, because they just won't do the job for deepwater support. There have been few light aircraft purchased, and most of them are going to EMS. Some EC135s were purchased to support Shell Pipeline, but Shell gave the contract to a competitor, so they're mostly sitting idle, while being prepared for EMS. There are far fewer small ships in Oil & Gas now, and it appears the intent is to make that number even lower, concentrating on larger customers with larger aircraft, with higher profit margins. Gonsoulin has apparently decided to abandon the bottom feeders, and that's probably a good business decision. Losing money on each aircraft, but making it up in volume, is no longer a viable business method. As if it ever was, but the Suggs dynasty tried it for a long time. They actually did make money, through leasing the aircraft to PHI through their own shell companies. They didn't really want PHI to make a profit.