Air Ambulance - Police Helicopter
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bunch of schoolboys inaccurately reported as illegally hunting with dogs: 1 helicopter, 1 car
Talk about priorities!
Tim
Talk about priorities!
Tim
Tim
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Good point PD, i guess thats what they mean by priority? One other point, i deffinitely remember a big brough hagh about police authorities stating response priorities! For example a call to a domestic disturbance doesnt require Michael Schumacher driving techniques, where as a break in at Tony Blaires house would most deffinitely call for that type of Response! Further, a reported break in with no one on the premisess doesnt even warrant attendance by the beat boys! Also an Estate Agent, Female, reported to police that a house she was valueing was possibly occupied by druggies. The answer was, to a female mind, go and check it out, if you need any help give us ANOTHER call!! If i was of sarcastic persuasion, i would venture that there were porbably 50 or more officers around the proverbial corner carrying out the vital task of checking perfectly innocent people who happen to be driving cars, commonly refered to by Govt, police etc as 
"MOTORISTS" for Tax dsics etc. WHERE DID IT ALL GO WRONG
"MOTORISTS" for Tax dsics etc. WHERE DID IT ALL GO WRONG
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S205-18F,
Interesting stuff. So if there is a problem out on an Island in the middle of nowhere who is First Responder? Who decides to launch you from Glasgow?
Interesting stuff. So if there is a problem out on an Island in the middle of nowhere who is First Responder? Who decides to launch you from Glasgow?
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Hi Slim Slag, It goes something like this. The GP calls and decides whether he/she can deal with the incident, if yes then we are not used, if no then we launch from Glasgow and go directly to the scene. During day light hours we can land in their back garden space permitting or at night the casuality is transported to a lit helipad!!! Bad weather presents another issue and then the very nice (very brave) chaps at SAR come pick one of us up and brave the elements while we sit in the back and sh*t ourselves. We have an EC135 Eurocopter which is ideal for HEMS work but less than for air ambulance work!
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Tim I make the same point you ask what threat the boys posed ? Well the operator on the phone can only take into account what she is told on the phone , correct ? It wasnt known that they were boys until the correct response to the REPORTED incident had arrived , but like I say if you have ESP then join the police you could save us all a lot of time . Unfortunately all those involved in public sector work will know that the public exaggerate hugely when they call the police . Two men fighting isnt reported as such its reported as ten men fighting with knives or suchlike , and so four kids in a field with an air rifle becomes "4 men with shotguns have threatened me " I come across this every day but you have to respond in the safest manner for the public . If a crewmen comes into the crewroom and states " the heli is on fire " do you send one man to look or do you call the fire service and deal with it appropriatley . This is my point Please dont have a go at the police who are dealing with everything with no resources in the safest way they can , we are all tied down by beaurocracy ,you pilots will know exactly what I mean , we have all dealt with the CAA ,now multiply that by ten you will have some idea of the legal moral and ethical crap we have to deal with on a daily basis
Rant over take this in the manner its meant , it is not a go at professionals just trying to get some people to understand what is involved in these sorts of operations .
Rant over take this in the manner its meant , it is not a go at professionals just trying to get some people to understand what is involved in these sorts of operations .
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Hi Droopystop, I see you have more than a passing interest in HEMS then. I think a lot of the issues on the small Islands are more to do with politics than the actual service but I maybe mistaken there! We do our best to keep both sides happy and, sofar, there has been no hostility towards us as a crew but there have been a lot of complaints.
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Reports on police helicopter operations should be published on relevant web sites (the names change every five minutes with the changes to the regulatory regimes, "best value reports" was what they were called a couple of years ago).
Plus the operators will attend local police liaison meetings if asked nicely, and give a run-down of their operations. (I haven't managed to actually blag a ride in the chopper yet though.)
Apart from the direct life saving that goes on (finding runaway kids and escaped mental patients on cold nights, for example) there are some cases where it is rather dangerous to chase perps on the ground, such as kids misbehaving on motorcycles, so the choice is between letting them get on with it and sending the chopper to have a look. There could be some indirect life saving here - just imagine what would happen if police motorcyclists were sent after them instead. (Hint: the kids can't hear the chopper over their own engine noise, so they can be followed home and nicked nice and safely by ground forces once they've got off their bikes.)
Oh, and as well as the life saving stuff they go after criminals too. When you're doing a drugs raid for example it's quite useful to have someone up above with an IR viewer telling you through which back gardens the perps are esacaping
Plus the operators will attend local police liaison meetings if asked nicely, and give a run-down of their operations. (I haven't managed to actually blag a ride in the chopper yet though.)
Apart from the direct life saving that goes on (finding runaway kids and escaped mental patients on cold nights, for example) there are some cases where it is rather dangerous to chase perps on the ground, such as kids misbehaving on motorcycles, so the choice is between letting them get on with it and sending the chopper to have a look. There could be some indirect life saving here - just imagine what would happen if police motorcyclists were sent after them instead. (Hint: the kids can't hear the chopper over their own engine noise, so they can be followed home and nicked nice and safely by ground forces once they've got off their bikes.)
Oh, and as well as the life saving stuff they go after criminals too. When you're doing a drugs raid for example it's quite useful to have someone up above with an IR viewer telling you through which back gardens the perps are esacaping
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Your a police observer, so from that can we assume your not a chopper pilot?
Therefore seeing as a large number of us here are pilots, i would guess matters of opp's and procedures would be something we could educate you on.
And so you dont punctuate? Well if ever i have the mis-fortune to be involved in a legal white elephant ( trumped up charges and such like!) i hope it is yourself filing the reports, any first year law stude would have a field day with such sloppyness! Surely Discipline and attention to detail go hand in hand with one performing such an important job and spending the public purse in such large quantities.?
Also, before you ask, one of my close colleageues is a DS in Scarborough, currently being considered for placement to a certain building on the south side of Vauxhall Bridge, big beige modern place with Christmas trees all over it I have no satisfactory explanation as to why these were deemed necessary on such a building, with the cost born by the tax payer!
Have a nice day and i hope you chill out before your next collar, as i fear for your unbiased objectivity being in tact!
Therefore seeing as a large number of us here are pilots, i would guess matters of opp's and procedures would be something we could educate you on.
And so you dont punctuate? Well if ever i have the mis-fortune to be involved in a legal white elephant ( trumped up charges and such like!) i hope it is yourself filing the reports, any first year law stude would have a field day with such sloppyness! Surely Discipline and attention to detail go hand in hand with one performing such an important job and spending the public purse in such large quantities.?
Also, before you ask, one of my close colleageues is a DS in Scarborough, currently being considered for placement to a certain building on the south side of Vauxhall Bridge, big beige modern place with Christmas trees all over it I have no satisfactory explanation as to why these were deemed necessary on such a building, with the cost born by the tax payer!
Have a nice day and i hope you chill out before your next collar, as i fear for your unbiased objectivity being in tact!
We'll let the ranting policeman pick the prize ... !
FF
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Well, at least there weren't spaces before the full stop at the end of every sentence... Just most of them...
Must say, though, a law graduate with an FATPL and he's been a plod for 13 years... Must be a great job...
Must say, though, a law graduate with an FATPL and he's been a plod for 13 years... Must be a great job...
Last edited by Kit d'Rection KG; 21st Sep 2006 at 22:01. Reason: Because I'm worth it...
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Well Kit , seeing as you wish to drag this to gutter level childish snipes . It has taken me the 13 years to raise the cash to do the full qualification and the police gives me the income to do that I would have thought that obvious , not to worry . Thanks fully flapped I did notice them too but as I stated previously I was trying to make a point , a point that everyone understood regardless of grammar and punctuation unlike piston who made none and just had a go ,I will leave it that .
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S205....
Sorry for deleting my post - it was written in a rush and without enough thought. I agree that most of the problem is political/resistance to change etc and that any perceived drop in service is not down to the new crews. There are one or two issues which leave question marks in my own mind, but they relate to the previous contractor and are best kept to myself.
Back to the main thread though...
I didn't see the program in question but I gather that a police helicopter attended a scene where someone was seriously injured and couldn't/didn't take them to hospital.
Sadly in this day and age the risk of being sued must be considered. I deplore this development in society, but unfortunately one has to cover their own ass, because no one else is going to. With the best will in the world policemen are not trained to deal with severe trauma. Thats what paramedics have been through extremely rigourous training for. If the guy was going to die, then yes do what you can, get him into hospital and break "every rule" in the book if you have to (just as the regualtions allow you to). But the best care for that casualty might well have been to administer first aid and get proper trained help there asap. Also remember that police air support units are bound by AOC/Flight manual limitations which may prohibit the use of some hospital landing sites (except of course for saving life).
On a more general note, I think the general public have to be careful not to consider helicopters as being a magic solution to everything. They are of course fallible and are often asked to operate in confined areas/areas of unpredictable wind and turbulence. You cannot just blag your way into somewhere that is just big enough for you to land in. If you run out of power, you crash just like any other flying machine will. There are times (thankfully very rare with the more modern aircraft) when the risk to a/c and crew is such that the casualty comes second (remember the first rule of first aid? Your safety first).
I agree with the sentiment that UK's air ambulances should be better funded. But my concern would be that if the cost had to come from NHS trust coffers, helicopters would not be used as often as if they would be if they were being paid for by someone else.
Sorry for deleting my post - it was written in a rush and without enough thought. I agree that most of the problem is political/resistance to change etc and that any perceived drop in service is not down to the new crews. There are one or two issues which leave question marks in my own mind, but they relate to the previous contractor and are best kept to myself.
Back to the main thread though...
I didn't see the program in question but I gather that a police helicopter attended a scene where someone was seriously injured and couldn't/didn't take them to hospital.
Sadly in this day and age the risk of being sued must be considered. I deplore this development in society, but unfortunately one has to cover their own ass, because no one else is going to. With the best will in the world policemen are not trained to deal with severe trauma. Thats what paramedics have been through extremely rigourous training for. If the guy was going to die, then yes do what you can, get him into hospital and break "every rule" in the book if you have to (just as the regualtions allow you to). But the best care for that casualty might well have been to administer first aid and get proper trained help there asap. Also remember that police air support units are bound by AOC/Flight manual limitations which may prohibit the use of some hospital landing sites (except of course for saving life).
On a more general note, I think the general public have to be careful not to consider helicopters as being a magic solution to everything. They are of course fallible and are often asked to operate in confined areas/areas of unpredictable wind and turbulence. You cannot just blag your way into somewhere that is just big enough for you to land in. If you run out of power, you crash just like any other flying machine will. There are times (thankfully very rare with the more modern aircraft) when the risk to a/c and crew is such that the casualty comes second (remember the first rule of first aid? Your safety first).
I agree with the sentiment that UK's air ambulances should be better funded. But my concern would be that if the cost had to come from NHS trust coffers, helicopters would not be used as often as if they would be if they were being paid for by someone else.
Mess Your Passage
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Max, im not a helo jock but when i have been at the airport watching one either start or shut down it takes time....
I have also seen the BO105 which had clamshell doors at the back to slide the patient in and out. Correct me if im wrong but i seem to remeber that they HAD to shut down to install a patient in this way. That was my point!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_(medicine)
Again my point......
rgds
f
I have also seen the BO105 which had clamshell doors at the back to slide the patient in and out. Correct me if im wrong but i seem to remeber that they HAD to shut down to install a patient in this way. That was my point!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_(medicine)
Again my point......
rgds
f
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Now I Have just recieved an email from someone called Titty bar who claims that I am spouting crap as a police officer and as a pilot(albeit fixed wing) he says .He has incorrectly identified me as Pistongone so for that Piston I must apologise . However this post doesnt seem to be here I can only imagine he has deleted upon realising that pointing out that I am spouting crap is pretty much a hypocritical statment , Sorry piston for having this person drag your good name down when he hasnt bothered to read the name on the post
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Flash0710 in answer to your post! we use an EC135 which we can hotload from the front port side with an orthopaedic stretcher and as a result it is a relatively quick and safe manoeuver there are also clam doors which we can use safely due to having a Fenestron system for tail rotor.
John.
John.
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Maxdrypower
It was a brave decision to stick your head above the parapet, you sometimes get people who use the site to get information and educate themselves further by asking questions.
In this period of higher threats from terrorist as well as the normal crime the Police get my support. Sadly you will get ignorant people like who posted the thread to start with (probably been caught speeding recently).
Those that want a more information about of this thread should go to the thread posted by SKYDRILLER called CHOPPER COPPERS also in ROTERHEADS.
This has lots of good information how the Police operate the way they do on CASEVACS and explains the wonders of TV editing.
Finally MAXDRYPOWER keep your chin up you get my vote and so do HEMS and all emergency services they do a difficult job while constantly being cut back by government.
It was a brave decision to stick your head above the parapet, you sometimes get people who use the site to get information and educate themselves further by asking questions.
In this period of higher threats from terrorist as well as the normal crime the Police get my support. Sadly you will get ignorant people like who posted the thread to start with (probably been caught speeding recently).
Those that want a more information about of this thread should go to the thread posted by SKYDRILLER called CHOPPER COPPERS also in ROTERHEADS.
This has lots of good information how the Police operate the way they do on CASEVACS and explains the wonders of TV editing.
Finally MAXDRYPOWER keep your chin up you get my vote and so do HEMS and all emergency services they do a difficult job while constantly being cut back by government.
OK, just to clarify a couple of points regarding the casevac on this weeks Skycops programme.
The crew were asked to assist as the Air Ambulance was not available. A Police helicopter is a Police Helicopter. It is not an Air Ambulance and it is not a HEMS operation. There are differences.
A Police helicopter may carry out a casevac, a casevac being:
Therefore, the crew have to ascertain whether there are life threatening circumstances. Now, to my limited experience of first aid situations, nobody is going to die just because his foot's half hanging off!
However, that's beside the point. The crew were being filmed for a TV programme, so they have to be seen to be playing by the rules. Oh, and by the way, it's not the bobbies that the CAA are going to be asking questions of, it's the pilot. Anyway, the paramedic is asked, and gives his opinion that the situation is life threatening, and the jobs a good un, and off they go to the hospital.
Anyway, don't believe everything that you see on the telly. That's why the 902 sounds like a Jetranger/Bell 47/R22(something with only 2 blades anyway), shots of the aircraft airbourne show engine instruments at zero, and the seasons were changing from shot to shot on the way back to base!!
The crew were asked to assist as the Air Ambulance was not available. A Police helicopter is a Police Helicopter. It is not an Air Ambulance and it is not a HEMS operation. There are differences.
A Police helicopter may carry out a casevac, a casevac being:
c)
Casevac
A flight, the purpose of which, is to give immediate assistance to a sick or injured person in life threatening circumstances.
However, that's beside the point. The crew were being filmed for a TV programme, so they have to be seen to be playing by the rules. Oh, and by the way, it's not the bobbies that the CAA are going to be asking questions of, it's the pilot. Anyway, the paramedic is asked, and gives his opinion that the situation is life threatening, and the jobs a good un, and off they go to the hospital.
Anyway, don't believe everything that you see on the telly. That's why the 902 sounds like a Jetranger/Bell 47/R22(something with only 2 blades anyway), shots of the aircraft airbourne show engine instruments at zero, and the seasons were changing from shot to shot on the way back to base!!
Mess Your Passage
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Yes, you claimed to be a professional. Myself and others have noticed a few holes.....
Im not slagging your job off here mate.Policy editing who cares? why not multi role the whole lot the Services are. So why try to belittle?
As i posted the other day about the very fortunate chap pulled out of the oggin with no jacket. It is very nice to know that a rapid response to something i would personally be bricking it, happens,,,,,
Thanks others for filling in tech gaps. And i also fumed today at the fact that the lifeboats have to do it themselves.
nucking futs this place.......
XX
f
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SkyBollox
Hello All
I am involved in Police aviation, and no I did not see the recent program.
Pilots, Observers, Crews, and alike lets get it right, the program is jazzed up nothingness, its a half hour show condensed into 60 minutes !
I agree the sound is heavily dubbed using the Hollywood standard jetranger, Its tacky and for those in the job , grim viewing.
I sat cringing watching the first show, and sadly I will admit I was at work.
So lets not fall out here, its TV folks its SH*Te
Tetchy
I am involved in Police aviation, and no I did not see the recent program.
Pilots, Observers, Crews, and alike lets get it right, the program is jazzed up nothingness, its a half hour show condensed into 60 minutes !
I agree the sound is heavily dubbed using the Hollywood standard jetranger, Its tacky and for those in the job , grim viewing.
I sat cringing watching the first show, and sadly I will admit I was at work.
So lets not fall out here, its TV folks its SH*Te
Tetchy