What would you do in the event of a crash?
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What would you do in the event of a crash?
I've been running over this situation in my mind; What are the steps you would take if a Helicopter crashed in your immediate vicinity?
Call the EMS? Run over and try to drag people out?
Call the EMS? Run over and try to drag people out?
Go wake Thibodeuax up.
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Been in that situation,First there with Fire extinguisher,pulled pilot out,shut off fuel etc and all turned out well except for written off Helo and dented pride
not mine I must add
I thnik if your close you have to get there and see what you can do and let the 2nd or 3rd people call fire service etc.
not mine I must addI thnik if your close you have to get there and see what you can do and let the 2nd or 3rd people call fire service etc.
Call the emergency services first, then go and help. That way if you get hurt helping or the people you pull out are injured beyond your help, the rescue services are already on their way.
Beyond that - shut down the engine if it is still running and turn off the fuel and electrics.
Beyond that - shut down the engine if it is still running and turn off the fuel and electrics.
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When it comes to shutting down the engine and fuel/electric systems, how easy is it for Joe Public to do this if they come accross a downed helicopter? I know in the world of motor racing (all disciplines) there is a sign pointing towards the cut-off, and if someone comes accross a car crash and the engine is running, it's fairly obvious how to turn it off. In a helicopter, however, if you are trapped after a crash and in no fit state to help the would-be rescuer, what clues do they have?
The military have "Rescue" arrows and signage on all their birds . . .
The military have "Rescue" arrows and signage on all their birds . . .
There are no limits
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More and more cars have unconventional start / stop systems - my Renault has a transponder 'key', although it does have a big button that says 'Engine Start Stop'.
No military or civilian aircraft I have flown has clearly marked cut off switches and none of them has an intuitive system for closing them down.
Perhaps it is time for a clearly marked cut off switch.
No military or civilian aircraft I have flown has clearly marked cut off switches and none of them has an intuitive system for closing them down.
Perhaps it is time for a clearly marked cut off switch.
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Just remembered that even public transport buses in the UK have marked fuel cutoff switches - some friends of mine used to stop traffic in Bath by hitting the cutoffs on two buses while they were stationary next to each other 
.
At least in a helicopter you're unlikely to get people hitting an external shutoff while you are hovering OGE
.At least in a helicopter you're unlikely to get people hitting an external shutoff while you are hovering OGE
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No military or civilian aircraft I have flown has clearly marked cut off switches and none of them has an intuitive system for closing them down
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I stand corrected - I was familiar with the military signage warning of canopy and rescue points, as well as things to avoid. I thought there would be something for the rescue crews as well, but I suppose those guys are pretty well trained and drilled in what to do anyway . . .
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Go for the instruments, you'll get most for them. Don't bother going through the pilots pockets, if I'm anything to go by there won't be any rich pickings there! 
PPRuNe Enigma
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Quickly scribble a story to sell to the local rag:
For maximum journalisitic sales potential, be sure to include the following phrases:
"pilot struggles heroically with controls"
"copter plunge terror"
extra bonus points for using any of the words: "doomed", "plummet", "stricken", "horror".
Don't forget to describe the tail rotor as a "propeller" . . .
. . . and if it can have narrowly missed a housing estate and a school playground, so much the better.
For maximum journalisitic sales potential, be sure to include the following phrases:
"pilot struggles heroically with controls"
"copter plunge terror"
extra bonus points for using any of the words: "doomed", "plummet", "stricken", "horror".
Don't forget to describe the tail rotor as a "propeller" . . .
. . . and if it can have narrowly missed a housing estate and a school playground, so much the better.
When it comes to shutting down the engine and fuel/electric systems, how easy is it for Joe Public to do this if they come accross a downed helicopter?
It depends on the type!!
The SAR guys (should) get a hazards brief on the aircraft type (and indeed that particular aircraft if it is known) and this information determines their response. Some aircraft use extremely hazardous materials and should only be approached with the correct PPE and, in certain cases, breathing apparatus is highly recommended.
If it were a composite aircraft that has crashed and is on fire, I probably won't go anywhere near it.
The SAR guys (should) get a hazards brief on the aircraft type (and indeed that particular aircraft if it is known) and this information determines their response. Some aircraft use extremely hazardous materials and should only be approached with the correct PPE and, in certain cases, breathing apparatus is highly recommended.
If it were a composite aircraft that has crashed and is on fire, I probably won't go anywhere near it.
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Before you do anything (in the UK) consider fully the implications of any Health & Safety legislation - Having considered the matter fully, stand back and watch the bugger burn....
Grainger - Do you work for RAF PR?
Wahaaay. 250 posts....I need to get a life.
Grainger - Do you work for RAF PR?
Wahaaay. 250 posts....I need to get a life.
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Experts say fight the fire first, but in reality the average portable size fire extingisher isnt going to have much effect on 200 gallons of jet fuel.
The interesting question to ask is how many pruners have experienced a crash where fuel tank ruptured but their was no fire?
Usually if there is a fire it starts immediatley?
So do you prepare a casualty for extraction, but don't him move unless you suspect a fire will start?
Creaser
The interesting question to ask is how many pruners have experienced a crash where fuel tank ruptured but their was no fire?
Usually if there is a fire it starts immediatley?
So do you prepare a casualty for extraction, but don't him move unless you suspect a fire will start?
Creaser
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Having seen a few crashes over the year (Sea King, Black Hawk, Scout, Wessex, UH-1H), There are as many ways to shut a helicopter down as there are types. Some need DC power, some AC, some need to shut a HP cock or wind down a throttle or retard a PCL. Jo Public is not going to know or even try. If the crew are that incapacitated, its very likely that (A) the cockpit is inaccessable (B) the engines have fodded and have shut down anyway or (C) there is no-one alive to rescue. I've been trained in the Fire Fighting side of helicopter crashes and we dont attempt a rescue until the fire is out or engines off. It would be a very daunting task to attempt to shut an aircraft down with no knowledge, a possible fire hazard and an engine whining near by. In regards to fires, none of these aircraft I saw caught fire but fuel was prevelant at all except the Black Hawk crashes. The Black Hawks crash worthiness really comes into play because the fuel tanks were still pressurised!
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Having seen a few crashes over the year (Sea King, Black Hawk, Scout, Wessex, UH-1H), There are as many ways to shut a helicopter down as there are types. Some need DC power, some AC, some need to shut a HP cock or wind down a throttle or retard a PCL. Jo Public is not going to know or even try. If the crew are that incapacitated, its very likely that (A) the cockpit is inaccessable (B) the engines have fodded and have shut down anyway or (C) there is no-one alive to rescue. I've been trained in the Fire Fighting side of helicopter crashes and we dont attempt a rescue until the fire is out or engines off. It would be a very daunting task to attempt to shut an aircraft down with no knowledge, a possible fire hazard and an engine whining near by. In regards to fires, none of these aircraft I saw caught fire but fuel was prevelant at all except the Black Hawk crashes. The Black Hawks crash worthiness really comes into play because the fuel tanks were still pressurised!
and the negative pressure in the system returns to ambient.