What is a "Mountain"?

[rudestuff]

The US Geological Survey Manual says this:

Mountain Flying: Helicopters.
Conducting flight operations in mountainous terrain including pinnacle landings and approaches at varying elevations and pressure altitudes of over 5,000 feet above sea level at temperature ranges above 75șF, and in areas of rugged peaks, deep canyons, cliffs, rock outcropping, steep slopes; including landing on mountain tops and confined areas surrounded by trees, brush, rocks, snow, or ice.

Found it here:
http://www.usgs.gov/usgs-manual/hand...-2-h/a275.html

But then again, they also talk about pressure altitudes above sea level - and it looks like if the temp is below 75f its not mountain flying either. I guess Everest is just a hill to the USGS. I did find something once on either the USFS or OAS websites that defined their idea of mountain flying - something quite sensible that referred to a certain increase in altitude over a certain distance. I think i'll try to look it up again.

[FredFri]

French regulations define mountainous terrain as terrain of 5000 ft or higher.

They don't mention any "AMSL", "density altitude" or "pressure altitude", but clearly the "topographic altitude" that is not subject to change (the Everest is always at 8848 meters, whatever the altimeter setting or temperature are!)

[170']

Hire protagonist..

Preparing for a OAS checkride, is like preparing to breathe. Not a big deal..These guys are not going to bust your chops.. just fly safe and conservatively, and youŽll be thru it in no time!
............................................................ .................

OAS was always 5000' for mountains..Just elevation!

CDF are the only ones who ever really checked anyway!

170'

[SASless]

Last USFS checkride was pure pleasure....emphasis is on safety...safety...safety. As it should be.

[B Sousa]

Nope...A mountain is a place where one can find Aircraft parts usually about 300' from the top.

As to the OAS rides. I have had a few. Always been a learning experience with some good Pilots.

[Gomer Pylot]

My last OAS checkride was years ago, in an AS350D. The check pilot came all the way down from Boise to do it, and had never been inside an AS350. It was for flying in the Gulf of Mexico, and while he wasn't that happy about landing on platforms, he insisted on seeing slope landings. It wasn't that easy to find a place with enough slope for him, and we would never land on one of those places, but that's what he wanted to see. If you can fly the helicopter without scaring the examiner, you're good to go, but you'll have to do slope landings.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Originally Posted by 170'

Hire protagonist..

Preparing for a OAS checkride, is like preparing to breathe. Not a big deal..These guys are not going to bust your chops.. just fly safe and conservatively, and youŽll be thru it in no time!
............................................................ .................

OAS was always 5000' for mountains..Just elevation!

CDF are the only ones who ever really checked anyway!

170'

Thanks for the kind words all. I'm not terribly stressed about the checkride/flying (though I will be when I've got one scheduled), as I've done the job, (often as the pilot flying and always as the pilot communicating) while I was a co-pilot last summer, plus three years as a ground-pounder, and feel fairly comfortable (for a rookie) in that environment.

SASless said...

Last USFS checkride was pure pleasure....emphasis is on safety...safety...safety. As it should be.

One of my favorite things about flying on fires is this focus on safety. I can't think of another customer who's going to say, "Oh, you can hover OGE with a 2,000 lb. load under today's conditions? Great, I demand that you take no more than 1,700 lbs. then."

When I was helitack, we used to recon for five minutes looking at landing spots near the fire, and then (invariably it seemed) fly to SAFER spots farther (seemed liked miles) away.

Every time I've smelled smoke this summer, I've had the urge to try to call air attack, and offer the use of my pax. as some sort of scary, type III hand crew (dressed in skirts and shorts, high heels, flip-flops, whatever), and maybe we could get some WORK done! But alas, we carry no hand tools on our tours, so I've just continued on to the picnic spot.

I can meet the mountain time requirement if it's 5,000' DA, but if it's the higher def. I'm looking for some work up high.

Sorry for the thread creep.

[SASless]

Grand Tetons looking West....I think would qualify as Mountain flying in anyone's book.

Valley averages 6400 feet MSL, Tetons have 12 peaks over 12,000 feet and highest peak 13770 feet MSL.