Flying over London: Heli-lanes etc
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This is more than bizarre. What exactly do they think they are achieving with this ? I can only assume that they think these moves will protect certain areas. So - let's all assume there's an infringment. Let's all assume that the ATC screens show a problem.
What then ?
If it's the bad boys, they will carry on unimpeded.
If it's the good guys, they will get prosecuted.
Hrrrrrrmmmph! Where the hell is the sense in all this "security" rubbish ?
Bit like travelling on commercial airlines. You go through all the checks, as a passenger, they ensure you're not carrying anything you shouldn't be. Then they allow you into the shopping mall on the otherside of security where you can buy explosive (perfume and other alcohol) and igniters (batteries) and a selection of "weapons" - and then get onboard with no checks.
Was at Zurich last weekend - there you can buy a Swiss Army knife just before boarding!
What then ?
If it's the bad boys, they will carry on unimpeded.
If it's the good guys, they will get prosecuted.
Hrrrrrrmmmph! Where the hell is the sense in all this "security" rubbish ?
Bit like travelling on commercial airlines. You go through all the checks, as a passenger, they ensure you're not carrying anything you shouldn't be. Then they allow you into the shopping mall on the otherside of security where you can buy explosive (perfume and other alcohol) and igniters (batteries) and a selection of "weapons" - and then get onboard with no checks.
Was at Zurich last weekend - there you can buy a Swiss Army knife just before boarding!
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AlanM: of course it's workable - because people like you have the ability to work closely with heli pilots and thread us through.
My point (and that of nearly everyone here) is that this is yet another cack-handed piece of legislation which does not achieve its aims.
And the cynic/realist in me says we are just a few steps away from total H4 closure.
Then what ? Ban all trucks bigger than vans ? Ban all people with strangely bulging overcoats ?
I'm getting a fed up with these idiotic non-solutions which appear to be the product of political rather than public service minds.
Like Brighton this week - a 3.5nm radius TRA up to 3500 ft. Controlled by the Sussex Police. So - along comes an aircraft at 3600 ft.......or 1000 ft. Doesn't matter - the TRA won't stop the situation.
Same applies with the new London Restricteds - 1400 ft. For what REAL reason ? Becuase it isn't security.
My point (and that of nearly everyone here) is that this is yet another cack-handed piece of legislation which does not achieve its aims.
And the cynic/realist in me says we are just a few steps away from total H4 closure.
Then what ? Ban all trucks bigger than vans ? Ban all people with strangely bulging overcoats ?
I'm getting a fed up with these idiotic non-solutions which appear to be the product of political rather than public service minds.
Like Brighton this week - a 3.5nm radius TRA up to 3500 ft. Controlled by the Sussex Police. So - along comes an aircraft at 3600 ft.......or 1000 ft. Doesn't matter - the TRA won't stop the situation.
Same applies with the new London Restricteds - 1400 ft. For what REAL reason ? Becuase it isn't security.
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I had a feeling this sort of garbage restriction was going to arrive eventually. As you might expect, given the lack of knowledge of those making the decisions, we have a set of restrictions that appears to be doing something, will inconvenience some law-abiding people, but will have no practical risk reducing effect. At the same time, other more serious threats of terrorist action continue without any restriction.
The people making these decisions do not understand the risks they are trying to control or the means by which they try to control them. Unfortunately, they also choose not to ask people who do know.
The helicopter industry is an easy target for such nonsense because it is a cottage industry with no clout.
The fact that the threat is tiny and the proposed precautions provide no real protection at all is simply ignored.
As one of the ATCers has said, the only thing is that it could have been much worse. The height limit at 1,400 ft and excluding traffic on H4 means that much "normal" traffic is not affected. The "special flights" will be very difficult to organise - why 28 days notice for goodness sake? The other aspect is that it will encourage those with 1,500 ft clearances to Battersea etc to maintain 1,500 ft when not able to remain VMC, but "they" were never worried about flight safety anyway......
It is exactly the same nonsensical "logic" that gives us the totally pointless and worthless restrictions for helicopters around some prisons. If they want to stop people being lifted from the exercise yards, string a load of wires across them. Otherwise forget it, cos this sort of adminstrative "restriction" will never stop the bad guys or allow any action to be taken in time.
The other aspect is that every time these stupid additional restrictions are imposed the terrorists are winning.
The trouble is we can see the nonsese that this is, and agree it is pointless, but no one will listen.
The people making these decisions do not understand the risks they are trying to control or the means by which they try to control them. Unfortunately, they also choose not to ask people who do know.
The helicopter industry is an easy target for such nonsense because it is a cottage industry with no clout.
The fact that the threat is tiny and the proposed precautions provide no real protection at all is simply ignored.
As one of the ATCers has said, the only thing is that it could have been much worse. The height limit at 1,400 ft and excluding traffic on H4 means that much "normal" traffic is not affected. The "special flights" will be very difficult to organise - why 28 days notice for goodness sake? The other aspect is that it will encourage those with 1,500 ft clearances to Battersea etc to maintain 1,500 ft when not able to remain VMC, but "they" were never worried about flight safety anyway......
It is exactly the same nonsensical "logic" that gives us the totally pointless and worthless restrictions for helicopters around some prisons. If they want to stop people being lifted from the exercise yards, string a load of wires across them. Otherwise forget it, cos this sort of adminstrative "restriction" will never stop the bad guys or allow any action to be taken in time.
The other aspect is that every time these stupid additional restrictions are imposed the terrorists are winning.
The trouble is we can see the nonsese that this is, and agree it is pointless, but no one will listen.
New 'Docklands' helipad
Apparently, there's a new helipad opening in London's Docklands area...I guess that's Docklands in the widest sense, as it seems to be near the new turbines at Dagenham.
Still, nice to see a new facility opening up. Let's hope it gets a bit of traffic and that the operators don't fall into the cash cow trap.
Still, nice to see a new facility opening up. Let's hope it gets a bit of traffic and that the operators don't fall into the cash cow trap.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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There's a very useful pad near there - on the north bank as well. Was used by the owner of the waste/recycling site. Have opped there with permission. Just outside the LCY zone.
Not good news for filming assignments. Are camera ships exempt
Will it be possible to "book" permission in advance as required, for say 3 days at a time? May give us half a chance to have a fair day.
How can we possibly know what the weather will be like 28 days in advance?
mickjoebill
Will it be possible to "book" permission in advance as required, for say 3 days at a time? May give us half a chance to have a fair day.
How can we possibly know what the weather will be like 28 days in advance?
mickjoebill
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I hear now some sense has crept in. Apparently Capital Radio's Flying Eye didn't fancy filing individual applications for each day it operates, 28 days ahead!
And some of the twin heli operators have been asking for blanket exemptions. Seems there's some back-tracking going on amongst the desk flyers.
And some of the twin heli operators have been asking for blanket exemptions. Seems there's some back-tracking going on amongst the desk flyers.
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Had a quick look at the website - precious little aviation detail.
AlanM's comment about location re: London City (which seems pretty sensible, given the helipad's location), prompts me to hope that someone with aviation knowledge is involved in this new venture.
AlanM's comment about location re: London City (which seems pretty sensible, given the helipad's location), prompts me to hope that someone with aviation knowledge is involved in this new venture.
Yes: website is minimalist, to say the least.
A quick look this morning gives an indication of the landing fees. Sadly, looks like they're smoking something.
Still, during October, you can land free for the first time. After that, £125 (50% normal charges!!!) and £75 per hour parking (50% normal!!).
So, I might pay a visit...once....in October...
I presume that for those fees, they are supplying a limo to get you into town and a slavering GSD to guard the precious metal from the itinerant hillbillies that frequent that part of the world.
A quick look this morning gives an indication of the landing fees. Sadly, looks like they're smoking something.
Still, during October, you can land free for the first time. After that, £125 (50% normal charges!!!) and £75 per hour parking (50% normal!!).
So, I might pay a visit...once....in October...
I presume that for those fees, they are supplying a limo to get you into town and a slavering GSD to guard the precious metal from the itinerant hillbillies that frequent that part of the world.
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The helipad is unlicensed.
There is no ATC, RFFS, Marshalling or fuel.
Parking is available for a maximum of two helicopters at any one time.
It restricted to a maximum of 10 movements per day and only one movement permitted per 15 minute period.
It is only open 0730-1930 Mon-Fri.
The normal landing fee is £250 (flat fee) and parking is charged at £150 per hour or part hour (all plus VAT).
They don't take cash, credit cards or debit cards.
The Ops phone numbers appear to be mobiles.
However, complimentary tea, coffee and soft drinks are available.
mmmmm.........................................
There is no ATC, RFFS, Marshalling or fuel.
Parking is available for a maximum of two helicopters at any one time.
It restricted to a maximum of 10 movements per day and only one movement permitted per 15 minute period.
It is only open 0730-1930 Mon-Fri.
The normal landing fee is £250 (flat fee) and parking is charged at £150 per hour or part hour (all plus VAT).
They don't take cash, credit cards or debit cards.
The Ops phone numbers appear to be mobiles.
However, complimentary tea, coffee and soft drinks are available.
mmmmm.........................................
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Juan Smore, don't overlook the "limo" from the helicopter to the reception building a journey of some 1 minute
Oh and the £150 parking per hour or part thereof ...a minimum of three hours.
Oh and the £150 parking per hour or part thereof ...a minimum of three hours.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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The overworked and underpaid of Thames Radar know nothing about it yet - well nothing formal! (as don't City Airport)
(have seen the high-tec website though!!)
(have seen the high-tec website though!!)
I'll tell you what: if this is a success, I'll be opening 'London North Helipad'.
Situated just an hour north of the metropolis and with an infrequent bus service into Baldock, you can land in my field. No ATC, marshalling, but fuel available at competitive rates.
If you land while she's there, the wife will even make you a cup of tea and maybe run you into Stevenage, if she's going that way. Gotta be a winner!
And only half the charges of London Docklands helipad.
Sorry guys: nice idea but doomed to fail, unless I'm much mistaken
Situated just an hour north of the metropolis and with an infrequent bus service into Baldock, you can land in my field. No ATC, marshalling, but fuel available at competitive rates.
If you land while she's there, the wife will even make you a cup of tea and maybe run you into Stevenage, if she's going that way. Gotta be a winner!
And only half the charges of London Docklands helipad.
Sorry guys: nice idea but doomed to fail, unless I'm much mistaken
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I wouldn't be too sniffy about the £250 landing fee.
The August issue of the AOPA magazine General Aviation had a feature on the GA terminal at London City, where the cheapest landing fee is £875. They're doing excellent business, taking traffic that could choose to land at Luton for £170.
Dagenham is clearly after similar meat.
The August issue of the AOPA magazine General Aviation had a feature on the GA terminal at London City, where the cheapest landing fee is £875. They're doing excellent business, taking traffic that could choose to land at Luton for £170.
Dagenham is clearly after similar meat.