Flying over London: Heli-lanes etc
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are looking for a site in the docklands you could try the Vanguard (just north of the Isle of Dogs RP) or the Excel Centre just NE of LCY airport.
Not so N, but still FG
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, I knew about Vanguard already, but they require twin engine and so won't accept a Jet Ranger. My colleague has now arranged to use the Battersea site, which has apparently reduced its evening landing charges.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good - was down there on Tuesday..... nice bit of new tarmac since my last visit. Hopefully Weston are making things really work. Talk of a new ATC tower thingy that will allow the controllers to see the traffic.... which seems novel!
Hope the said colleague's wife doesn't find out the reduced cost - shame to reduce the bling factor!!! 
My colleague has now arranged to use the Battersea site, which has apparently reduced its evening landing charges.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
London/London City Zone PPR
Don't forget that the zones are PPR today (4th June) and tomorrow (5th June) for the Epsom Oaks/Derby. Transits are subject workload!!
More details in the AIC Supp:
Epsom AIC Supp
Also during Ascot Week expect even more restrictions (15-19th June)
Ascot AIC Supp
enjoy......... (you will need to log in to the AIS website)
More details in the AIC Supp:
Epsom AIC Supp
Also during Ascot Week expect even more restrictions (15-19th June)
Ascot AIC Supp
enjoy......... (you will need to log in to the AIS website)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
helicopters buzzing around heathrow approaches
who 'polices' helicopters around the approaches to Heathrow? I regularly see them flying across / between / alongside aircraft coming into Heathrow, closer than I would think is safe. Who looks after this / what are the rules??
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Surrey, Uk
Age: 72
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sheenboy.
The helicopters will be under the control of Heathrow Special VFR. When they need to cross the runways at Heathrow they will talk to the Tower. The rules about height and routings are very strict and safe. You need to speak to the Heathrow Director who is the expert on these maters.
I will PM him.
Clint.
The helicopters will be under the control of Heathrow Special VFR. When they need to cross the runways at Heathrow they will talk to the Tower. The rules about height and routings are very strict and safe. You need to speak to the Heathrow Director who is the expert on these maters.
I will PM him.
Clint.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Sheenboy. Mr ex-colleague Mr Grubby suggested i take a look at your post.
Helicopter operations within the London area are strictly controlled and, with one or two exceptions, take place on accurately defined routes. Those you see under the approaches to Heathrow will be vertically separated from the commercial jets above with never less than 1,000 feet between them. Over central London the Heathrow inbounds will be around 3,000 ft and the helicopters down around 1,000 ft so there is plenty of room between them.
The rules for helicopter operations within the London Control Zone are laid down the in the AIP.
Hope this helps but email me direct at [email protected] if I can answer any more queries.
Helicopter operations within the London area are strictly controlled and, with one or two exceptions, take place on accurately defined routes. Those you see under the approaches to Heathrow will be vertically separated from the commercial jets above with never less than 1,000 feet between them. Over central London the Heathrow inbounds will be around 3,000 ft and the helicopters down around 1,000 ft so there is plenty of room between them.
The rules for helicopter operations within the London Control Zone are laid down the in the AIP.
Hope this helps but email me direct at [email protected] if I can answer any more queries.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Stockport
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Heathrow Director and all
I understand from what sheenboy has said to be the crossing of the airport by helicopters at the thresholds ( am I correct sheenboy) , I was at the visitors centre last weekend and watches a precession of helicopters during the day
which I found facinating
From that a couple of questions
1 can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
2 what is the prefered crossing procedure
as I presume a TCAS warning will be caused on each crossing
Golf -India Bravo
I understand from what sheenboy has said to be the crossing of the airport by helicopters at the thresholds ( am I correct sheenboy) , I was at the visitors centre last weekend and watches a precession of helicopters during the day
which I found facinating
From that a couple of questions
1 can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
2 what is the prefered crossing procedure
as I presume a TCAS warning will be caused on each crossing
Golf -India Bravo
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West UK
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
can any helicopter pilot with a PPL use this route? as it seems to me that a very high standard of airmanship is required
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I misunderstood; thought he meant a bit further out! Helicopter crossings are under the control of Heathrow Tower and are usually carried out in good visibility to enable the controller to apply visual separation between traffic. All the info is in the UK AIP, which is readily available on-line. I'll try and copy the relevant paragraphs and post them on here in the next day or two..
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding helicopters at LHR.....
Every so often we have police helicopters flying along the northern and southern perimeters. Yes, they appear close, but we only do this under certain cloud and visibility limits. We pass traffic information to every a/c, telling them where the helicopter is, and at all times we make sure the controller has the helicopter in sight.
Other helicopters crossing the airfield follow a procedure laid down in the AIP. Again, this is a 'good weather' procedure. The helicopter will be talking to the person controlling the landing runway, and he/she will identify a gap where it will be safest to cross the helicopter. He'll tell the helicopter to report when he is visual with the a/c that he is planning to cross behind, that done, the ATCO will warn the next landing a/c that a helicopter is crossing in front of him.
If the weather is not good, and the helicopter HAS to cross the airfield, rather than route around, then we need a big gap in the landing traffic.
PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. I would recommend any PPL(H), or anyone, who hasn't done the crossing procedure before to tell ATC, so then maybe we'll go for a bigger gap!
Every so often we have police helicopters flying along the northern and southern perimeters. Yes, they appear close, but we only do this under certain cloud and visibility limits. We pass traffic information to every a/c, telling them where the helicopter is, and at all times we make sure the controller has the helicopter in sight.
Other helicopters crossing the airfield follow a procedure laid down in the AIP. Again, this is a 'good weather' procedure. The helicopter will be talking to the person controlling the landing runway, and he/she will identify a gap where it will be safest to cross the helicopter. He'll tell the helicopter to report when he is visual with the a/c that he is planning to cross behind, that done, the ATCO will warn the next landing a/c that a helicopter is crossing in front of him.
If the weather is not good, and the helicopter HAS to cross the airfield, rather than route around, then we need a big gap in the landing traffic.
PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. I would recommend any PPL(H), or anyone, who hasn't done the crossing procedure before to tell ATC, so then maybe we'll go for a bigger gap!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<PPL(H)s can cross Heathrow. However, I would advise that they know the AIP procedure inside and out. We find a great diversity of apparent ability in following the procedure, and it has been known for ATCOs to turn helicopters away if they have any doubts as to the pilot's ability to get it right. >>
Hear hear! I don't know who you are Gonzo but were you there when this one happened: PPL in a Strimmer (R22) was told "After departing xxx cross 27L, etc" and we lost sight of him.. The Lighting Op suddenly hollered "He's on 05 by the southern dual". When we told him to cross 27L he thought he had to land and air-taxi across!!!!
Hear hear! I don't know who you are Gonzo but were you there when this one happened: PPL in a Strimmer (R22) was told "After departing xxx cross 27L, etc" and we lost sight of him.. The Lighting Op suddenly hollered "He's on 05 by the southern dual". When we told him to cross 27L he thought he had to land and air-taxi across!!!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nope, I arrived in 99....still wet behind the ears!
Never heard of that one. It is fascinating seeing how the geographical location of Sipson, Bedfont etc changes from day to day!
Ugh, R22 crossing the field with a strong headwind....... you start to imagine you can see it tacking against the wind!
Never heard of that one. It is fascinating seeing how the geographical location of Sipson, Bedfont etc changes from day to day!
Ugh, R22 crossing the field with a strong headwind....... you start to imagine you can see it tacking against the wind!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Stockport
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squadgey
No I`m not saying that PPL`s are not of a high standard, but i`m sure I would not attempt to fly that until I had plenty of experience of working in a tight area with a lot of traffic around
Golf India Bravo
No I`m not saying that PPL`s are not of a high standard, but i`m sure I would not attempt to fly that until I had plenty of experience of working in a tight area with a lot of traffic around
Golf India Bravo
Sheenboy: it's not so much HAVE to. Crossing Heathrow is actually a very interesting and exciting experience, and one of the reasons I chose the 'routes when I used to take my mates up.
You need to have your wits about you.
As a PPL, it's a damn' good idea to 'do the heliroutes' with an instructor, to get the routes and radio sorted before trying it yourself. It's also a good idea to phone Heathrow ATC before launch: "I'm thinking of coming through at <time>, routing <whatever>, is there anything I should know?" and you'll get a briefing on your route, with the advantage that when you call them for zone entry, they'll have an idea of who you are and what you want to do, so they'll be ready for you.
My old favourite, when I used to fly out of Redhill, was West along the M25, zone entry at Oxshot, North over Sunbury Lock to hold at Bedfont (or Dual Taxiways, depending on clearance), over the top past Sipson to Notrtholt, East along hangar Lane to the Gyratory, then South to join the Thames at Kew (down to 750 feet by here), then East along the Thames to the Dartford Crossing ('cos it's hard to miss
) and then right to follow the M25 back round to Redhill. Interesting for the passenger, busy on the radio, a challenge to fly accurately, but essentially easy - the only difficult bit was remembering when to leave the security of the M25 and strike off across country to Redhill ! 
You need to have your wits about you.
As a PPL, it's a damn' good idea to 'do the heliroutes' with an instructor, to get the routes and radio sorted before trying it yourself. It's also a good idea to phone Heathrow ATC before launch: "I'm thinking of coming through at <time>, routing <whatever>, is there anything I should know?" and you'll get a briefing on your route, with the advantage that when you call them for zone entry, they'll have an idea of who you are and what you want to do, so they'll be ready for you.
My old favourite, when I used to fly out of Redhill, was West along the M25, zone entry at Oxshot, North over Sunbury Lock to hold at Bedfont (or Dual Taxiways, depending on clearance), over the top past Sipson to Notrtholt, East along hangar Lane to the Gyratory, then South to join the Thames at Kew (down to 750 feet by here), then East along the Thames to the Dartford Crossing ('cos it's hard to miss
) and then right to follow the M25 back round to Redhill. Interesting for the passenger, busy on the radio, a challenge to fly accurately, but essentially easy - the only difficult bit was remembering when to leave the security of the M25 and strike off across country to Redhill !
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew the heli-routes with an instructor as a fairly new PPL(H), and we did the Heathrow Crossing. When we called the Tower, the first thing they asked was whether we had done it before, and my instructor said he had. I rather got the feeling they might have turned us away if we hadn't. Anyway, we approached on the specified route, and were then told to hold. This is very easy in a helicopter, which can go at almost any speed, so we watched the landing aircraft, and were then asked if we were visual with the 747 on final. We said we were, and were then cleared to cross after he landed.
It was all absolutely clear what was required, and it wasn't difficult in terms of either flying or airmanship. Any PPL(H) should be able to do it, although going with someone else for the first time is obviously a good idea, in a fairly high workload environment where you need to follow instructions that closely and make sure you don't make a mistake. Having said that, it's a great experience, doing it for the first time. I'm sure it looks scary to onlookers, and as though the aircraft are very close together...it isn't and they aren't.
It was all absolutely clear what was required, and it wasn't difficult in terms of either flying or airmanship. Any PPL(H) should be able to do it, although going with someone else for the first time is obviously a good idea, in a fairly high workload environment where you need to follow instructions that closely and make sure you don't make a mistake. Having said that, it's a great experience, doing it for the first time. I'm sure it looks scary to onlookers, and as though the aircraft are very close together...it isn't and they aren't.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sheenboy,
I think you will find it is safer for them to route the helicopters across the thresholds, as although it seems close it is a definite gate, were you know were to oppsing aircraft will be , because a; the planes have to land and take off from the runway! B; Even the most short sited of helicopter pilots should be able to see the thresholds and the fuel farm. Wereas if they were routed away from the field you would have to go miles away to get adequate safe separation.
I would also never hear a bad word said about the controllers at Heathrow, I have been in and out of LHR many times and they have always been superb. (It is actually easier and quicker than going in and out of Southampton in a Heli.)
I think you will find it is safer for them to route the helicopters across the thresholds, as although it seems close it is a definite gate, were you know were to oppsing aircraft will be , because a; the planes have to land and take off from the runway! B; Even the most short sited of helicopter pilots should be able to see the thresholds and the fuel farm. Wereas if they were routed away from the field you would have to go miles away to get adequate safe separation.
I would also never hear a bad word said about the controllers at Heathrow, I have been in and out of LHR many times and they have always been superb. (It is actually easier and quicker than going in and out of Southampton in a Heli.)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On May 15th members of the Helicopter Club of Great Britain flew Heathrow ATCOs on the London Heliroutes - a regular event which helps both sides understand the imperatives of the other.
There were 16 controllers (they draw lots) in seven helicopters, including EC120s, 44s, a 206, an AS350 and a Gazelle. The ATCOs get a great deal from it, especially an understanding of the workload on a single-pilot helicopter. And it gives them a whole new persperctive on their place of work.
It's also excellent public relations, not only for the HCGB but for all helicopter pilots.
There were 16 controllers (they draw lots) in seven helicopters, including EC120s, 44s, a 206, an AS350 and a Gazelle. The ATCOs get a great deal from it, especially an understanding of the workload on a single-pilot helicopter. And it gives them a whole new persperctive on their place of work.
It's also excellent public relations, not only for the HCGB but for all helicopter pilots.