Flying over London: Heli-lanes etc
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Whilst this doesn't appease your understandable frustration, the rules for flying in TSA have not changed. Just the nomenclature! (in house joke
)
(well - not yet they haven't.........
)
)(well - not yet they haven't.........
)
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EG R160 is now defined in ENR 5-1-2-3 - see page 3.
RC
EG R160 The Specified Area
The area bounded by straight lines joining successively the following points:
512912N 0001716W - 513420N 0001407W -
513318N 0000904W - 513409N 0000318W -
513130N 0000045W - 512645N 0000044W -
512712N 0000610W - 512515N 0001222W -
512854N 0001407W - 512912N 0001716W
excluding so much of the bed of the River Thames as lies within that area between the ordinary high water marks on each of its banks.
Up to unlimited
SFC
Except with the written permission of the Civil Aviation Authority a helicopter shall not fly over the Specified Area of Central London below such a height as would enable it, in the event of an engine failure, to land clear of that area. See also ENR 1.1.4.
Further information may be obtained from the General Aviation Department (for non-public transport operations) or Flight operations Department (for public transport operations) of the Civil Aviation Authority,
Tel: 01293-567171.
SI 964 /2005.
The area bounded by straight lines joining successively the following points:
512912N 0001716W - 513420N 0001407W -
513318N 0000904W - 513409N 0000318W -
513130N 0000045W - 512645N 0000044W -
512712N 0000610W - 512515N 0001222W -
512854N 0001407W - 512912N 0001716W
excluding so much of the bed of the River Thames as lies within that area between the ordinary high water marks on each of its banks.
Up to unlimited
SFC
Except with the written permission of the Civil Aviation Authority a helicopter shall not fly over the Specified Area of Central London below such a height as would enable it, in the event of an engine failure, to land clear of that area. See also ENR 1.1.4.
Further information may be obtained from the General Aviation Department (for non-public transport operations) or Flight operations Department (for public transport operations) of the Civil Aviation Authority,
Tel: 01293-567171.
SI 964 /2005.
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I am concidering my first trip through London (with suitably qualified instructor) and have a question regarding H10.
Between Guteridge and Kew bridge, the route seems to pass over some heavily populated areas especially further east.
Now I appreciate that single engined helis are permitted on H4 on the basis that you ditch in the river in case of engine failure but what is the plan on H10 ? Is it really as built up as it looks ?
The other routes all seem to pass closer to parks/playing fields etc.
Thanks
Between Guteridge and Kew bridge, the route seems to pass over some heavily populated areas especially further east.
Now I appreciate that single engined helis are permitted on H4 on the basis that you ditch in the river in case of engine failure but what is the plan on H10 ? Is it really as built up as it looks ?
The other routes all seem to pass closer to parks/playing fields etc.
Thanks
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H10 is not as congested as you may think. It follows the A40 in with some good greenspace along the south side. Then it follows the west side of the North Circular to Kew Bridge - again with greenspace beneath you. And then you're onto the river - which isn't part of R160 (The Specified Area) so you are permitted to "alight" in the river.
There is no specific rule banning single engine heli flights over R160 - but ALL helicopters have to be able to alight clear of R160 in the event of a power failure.
Look in the EGLL listing of the UK AIP "Aerodromes" website for the full rules.
There is no specific rule banning single engine heli flights over R160 - but ALL helicopters have to be able to alight clear of R160 in the event of a power failure.
Look in the EGLL listing of the UK AIP "Aerodromes" website for the full rules.
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headsethair,
Thanks for the clarification on H10, I'm pleased to hear that there is a tad of green nearby.
I have taken a good look at the AIP stuff and read a lot of what is on this forum; hence my plan to take the instructor.
'alight' certainly looks better than 'ditch' !
Thanks
Thanks for the clarification on H10, I'm pleased to hear that there is a tad of green nearby.
I have taken a good look at the AIP stuff and read a lot of what is on this forum; hence my plan to take the instructor.
'alight' certainly looks better than 'ditch' !
Thanks
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Oh my God!!
Wow, by the sounds of it all you are in big trouble if you don't do the right thing.
I'm scared of trying it myself after hearing all this.
"Don't do this, don't do that, make sure you do this, if you don't sound professional they won't like you......"
PPL pilots take note - ATC is not a big bad monster. They are here to help and assist - as YOU must do when given a direction.
I have always found UK ATC extremely helpful.
I'm scared of trying it myself after hearing all this.
"Don't do this, don't do that, make sure you do this, if you don't sound professional they won't like you......"
PPL pilots take note - ATC is not a big bad monster. They are here to help and assist - as YOU must do when given a direction.
I have always found UK ATC extremely helpful.
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PPL pilots take note - ATC is not a big bad monster. They are here to help and assist - as YOU must do when given a direction.
I think it also bears remembering the privelege of being able to operate over London as we do, and not risk throwing it all away by bad airmanship, a fact recognised by the controllers and clearly by many posters on this subject.
That said, if you fellow PPLs have not done it, get yourself an instructor and a helicopter and go for it - the experience is unforgettable!
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London Landing Site
Folks,
am piloting a twin-engined machine regularly to London (Battersea Vangaurd Elstree), however my employer has purchased a large site within the London CTR near Morden on H7.
Do I require permission to land from the CAA? and/or other Authorities? other than Special Branch/Customs
thx
am piloting a twin-engined machine regularly to London (Battersea Vangaurd Elstree), however my employer has purchased a large site within the London CTR near Morden on H7.
Do I require permission to land from the CAA? and/or other Authorities? other than Special Branch/Customs
thx
Avoid imitations
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Presumably an exemption from Rule 5 (i) c, or whatever the EASA equivalent is, would be needed if the landing site lies in what could be described as a congested area.
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There's an extra clause in the April 2005 amendment to rule five that applies to landing off a Heliroute. It's in section (3) paragraph c.
(Link here)
So I think you'll have to talk to the CAA.
F.O.M.
PS Where's Vanguard?
(Link here)
So I think you'll have to talk to the CAA.
F.O.M.
PS Where's Vanguard?
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Vanguard is a private site on the west edge of the IoD.
And agree - you will need CAA permission in writing for landing off the heliroute. You need GA dept unless you have an AOC.
And agree - you will need CAA permission in writing for landing off the heliroute. You need GA dept unless you have an AOC.
Better red than ...
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Vanguard is a private site on the west edge of the IoD.
That would be a bit tight for a landing.
Guest
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As others have said, this hangs on whether your site is deemed a 'congested area'. If your site is defined as such then you need permission, if not then you don't.
Someone gave me a definition which I thought would be pretty arguable in court, namely that a congested area is anything in yellow on the 1/2 mill map. But recently a FIE(H) told me that the CAA argues that a golf course is a congested area ! Figure that if you can.
Best to get a ruling to be on the safe side - Call Bob Jones (AOC and PAOC operators) or Keith Thomas (Gen Aviation) on 01293 573528.
Someone gave me a definition which I thought would be pretty arguable in court, namely that a congested area is anything in yellow on the 1/2 mill map. But recently a FIE(H) told me that the CAA argues that a golf course is a congested area ! Figure that if you can.
Best to get a ruling to be on the safe side - Call Bob Jones (AOC and PAOC operators) or Keith Thomas (Gen Aviation) on 01293 573528.
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H7 is in Control Zone Central, (That bit East of the Denham - Brooklands Line - but West of BNN143-Battersea-Due South)
This means you will need to speak to LTCC Ops about this.
Otherwise, no probs ATC wise. You will probably be expected to phone in first when you want to come out though, unless you can raise 125.62 on the ground.
This means you will need to speak to LTCC Ops about this.
Otherwise, no probs ATC wise. You will probably be expected to phone in first when you want to come out though, unless you can raise 125.62 on the ground.
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LONDON LANDING SITES
There are 3 parts to this:
1. London, under the Heli Routes, is a congested area and you will need CAA permission against Rule 5(2)(c) (the 1000 ft rule) to land unless you are using a licenced or government airfield.
2. You are not allowed to land off the heli routes, except at a licenced or government airfield, without CAA permission (Rule 5(3)(c)(ii).
3. If your site is in the Specified Area then you need CAA permission against the Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (Specified Area) Regulations 2005.
It looks as though you may need permission on all 3 counts.
Fortunately all are dealt with by the General Aviation Dept in the Belgrano.
1. London, under the Heli Routes, is a congested area and you will need CAA permission against Rule 5(2)(c) (the 1000 ft rule) to land unless you are using a licenced or government airfield.
2. You are not allowed to land off the heli routes, except at a licenced or government airfield, without CAA permission (Rule 5(3)(c)(ii).
3. If your site is in the Specified Area then you need CAA permission against the Air Navigation (Restriction of Flying) (Specified Area) Regulations 2005.
It looks as though you may need permission on all 3 counts.
Fortunately all are dealt with by the General Aviation Dept in the Belgrano.
Congested Area
From memory, I think the term Congested Area is defined in the ANO; I believe it reads something like 'Any part of a town or settlement used for Resdidential, Industrial or Recreational purposes@.
J
J
The ICAO and JAR-OPS definition is:
hence the comment about the golf course.
Jim
Congested area. In relation to a city, town or settlement, any area which is substantially used for residential, commercial or recreational purposes.
Jim