Cross Country Hours

[SFHawk]

New member, first post!
Been searching high and low to find a definite description of what constitutes cross country hours in a helicopter. Just out of the circuit? Does a landing have to be at an aerodrome etc...Any ideas? Don't want to be caught short before starting my IR.

[Flingwing207]

FAA or JAA?

If FAA, cross-country as defined for a rating is a flight with a point of landing 25NM from the original point of departure. Period (and including the helicopter ATP).

[thecontroller]

not according to the FAA DPE I spoke to. he said ANY flight can be counted as cross country for the ATP rating

[vaqueroaero]

"not according to the FAA DPE I spoke to. he said ANY flight can be counted as cross country for the ATP rating"
According to the FAA
FAR 61.1 - Applicability and definitions, 3(v)
For the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for ANY pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category rating or an instrument helicopter rating, or for the purpose of exercising recreational pilot pilot privileges, in a rotorcraft under 61.101(c), time aquired during a flight-
(A) Conducted in an appropriate aircraft;
(B) That includes a point of landing that was at least a straight line distance of more than 25 nautical miles from the original point of departure
Seems fairly straightforward to me.
However any time you land away from where your original point of departure, it can be logged as cross country,regardless of distance, as long as you are not using it towards building time for a rating.

[Flingwing207]

Originally Posted by thecontroller

not according to the FAA DPE I spoke to. he said ANY flight can be counted as cross country for the ATP rating

As Vaqueroaero pointed out, re XC time, the helicopter ATP requires the 25 mile from base landing. People tend to miss or ignore that distinction. I personally know three folks who have made that mistake when applying for a helicopter ATP rating, one "got away with it" - we'll see what happens down the road.

[HillerBee]

In JAA land you can count every flight outside the traffic patteren where navigation and pilotage is involved as cross country.

In the US you can log cross country time the same way, but it doesn't count towards a rating, as flingwing already says. (So what's the point of logging it that way)

[SFHawk]

Thanks for all the help, I'm living in JAA land, so definitely like Hillerbee's response! Should be in the clear because most flights have been from Edinburgh Airport and they don't like little R22's slowing up the pattern, so you usually get shoved out.

[The_Sheriff]

With regards to the JAA X-C. As long as the purpose of the flight was a Nav exercise, then it can be logged as X-C, it you were to fly to a practice area outside the pattern to work on manouvers, then this cannot be logged as X-C.

[rudestuff]

I know you're not after FAA Regs, but seeing as some people started talking FAA, I just thought i'd throw my 2c in anyway (having just read the FAR/AIM)

I think the DPE was confusing the ATP (H) with ATP (A) - there is a 25NM distance requirement for ATP(H) and 50NM for ATP(A), but for the ATP(A) you don't have to land anywhere

The interesting thing is that most people think that you have to do 25NM in a helicopter and 50NM in an airplane, which is not the case.
The distance requirements depend on what certificate you are applying for, not what you are flying in - so in the case of ATP (H) you need 500 hrs XC "in an appropriate aircraft" of >25Nm
So you could count a 26NM airplane flight as XC for an ATP(H)
Or you could fly a pattern with a 51NM downwind leg and still call it Cross country - but only towards an ATP(A)

Didn't half make it complicated, did they?

[MD900 Explorer]

Duuur

Post removed due to too much wine and not enough knowledge.

Regards

MD

[Whirlygig]

MD900, my understanding is more in line HillerBee's; that cross-country flying hours (for log book purposes) is anything involving a navigation exercise and needn't involve landing anywhere.

However, qualifying cross-country exercises for the purpose of a skills test I believe do need to be from licenced field to licenced field.

Cheers

Whirls

[TiPwEiGhT]

I believe in the UK cross-country flight is defined if you go further than 3nm from point of departure.

TiP

[ShyTorque]

Originally Posted by TiPwEiGhT

I believe in the UK cross-country flight is defined if you go further than 3nm from point of departure.
TiP

So THAT'S why nowadays folk are doing huge circuits, taking them outside the 2nm ATZ!

[Whirlybird]

In pre-JAA days in the the UK, a cross country flight was definitely one that went more than 3nm from its point of departure. I'm not 100% certain whether or not JAA has changed that, but if it has, it certainly hasn't changed very much. I gave up counting cross country hours years ago, as there wasn't a lot of point.