Position lights in the day?
Thread Starter
Position lights in the day?
I have recently noticed a 'rash' of heli operators flying with the anti-coll, landing light and position lights switched on during brilliant sunshine!
Whats going on? Have they gone mental or just bought shares in a a/c lights supplier?
Those little bulbs cost about 45 quid each not to mention the panel lights packing up while you are night flying.
Whats going on? Have they gone mental or just bought shares in a a/c lights supplier?
Those little bulbs cost about 45 quid each not to mention the panel lights packing up while you are night flying.
Jo,
Did Marse Smith tell you panel lights work off Anti-Col switches or something? Must one turn on the Nav Lights to get the Strobes to bark?
Where you doing your shopping Mate?
Show us the details of a receipt that confirms that 45 Quid number.
Did Marse Smith tell you panel lights work off Anti-Col switches or something? Must one turn on the Nav Lights to get the Strobes to bark?
Where you doing your shopping Mate?
Show us the details of a receipt that confirms that 45 Quid number.
Landing lights can be useful if operating at high speed at low levels (say at less than 2000ft and more than 90kts 
) - birds will fly away from them apparently. 
Position lights on during the day? Like you say, just a waste of bulbs. Don't help with your conspicuousness at all.
) - birds will fly away from them apparently. Position lights on during the day? Like you say, just a waste of bulbs. Don't help with your conspicuousness at all.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 431 Likes
on
227 Posts
It's a personal choice! Had this argument a long time ago when we were re-writing an RAF helicopter checklist and someone wanted to mandate "Position Lights - ON" in the the pre-start items. He thought it was a compulsory thing, even by day! I produced the relevant document and we settled on "Position lights - As required".
However, it is of course a legal requirement in UK for helicopters to display the anti-collision light by day whenever the rotors are turning.
Edit: With the exception given for helicopters on an offshore platform, for signalling that it is safe to board pax.
However, it is of course a legal requirement in UK for helicopters to display the anti-collision light by day whenever the rotors are turning.
Edit: With the exception given for helicopters on an offshore platform, for signalling that it is safe to board pax.
Last edited by ShyTorque; 14th Jun 2006 at 18:48.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: bymehere
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regard to nav lights - If you can't see a big metal flying machine in the sky on a clear day..methinks a little bulb of red, green or white is not going to affect the outcome of the impending collision! If, however, the sun has gone down......
Landing light - ON in daytime when forward speed equals cooling, and known or expected traffic is not visual - 'specially in sh?t Viz.
Landing light - ON in daytime when forward speed equals cooling, and known or expected traffic is not visual - 'specially in sh?t Viz.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anti collision light must also be on in US if helicopter so equipped.
I also fly with position lights on, however this is because they come on automatically with the 2 secondary fancy little LED anti-collision lights, which are fitted to the H/Stabilizers, they look so pretty (flash, flash). I also fly with the pulse light system operating - alternating between landing and taxi light - again very pretty (flash, flash).
I operate both these lighting systems from just before I'm ready to lift until I land. This gives people on the ground or in other helicopters a signal that I'm about to move. As far as in flight is concerned I keep them operating, every little helps even on sunny days, and also because I don't really care how much they cost to replace (it’s a bulb!). 45quid may be a little expensive though. As far as the panel lights are concerned though, I don't usually operate these unless I need them. Possibly the helicopter you are flying, has the position lights and instrument lights connected together. I have personally never come across that.
I also fly with position lights on, however this is because they come on automatically with the 2 secondary fancy little LED anti-collision lights, which are fitted to the H/Stabilizers, they look so pretty (flash, flash). I also fly with the pulse light system operating - alternating between landing and taxi light - again very pretty (flash, flash).
I operate both these lighting systems from just before I'm ready to lift until I land. This gives people on the ground or in other helicopters a signal that I'm about to move. As far as in flight is concerned I keep them operating, every little helps even on sunny days, and also because I don't really care how much they cost to replace (it’s a bulb!). 45quid may be a little expensive though. As far as the panel lights are concerned though, I don't usually operate these unless I need them. Possibly the helicopter you are flying, has the position lights and instrument lights connected together. I have personally never come across that.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SE England
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have recently noticed a 'rash' of heli operators flying with the anti-coll, landing light and position lights switched on during brilliant sunshine!
The scandal!
I have to say my first reaction is... so what? Ok, so the position lights are a matter of choice. I can't see that they make a whole lot of difference in bright sunshine but you just never know but - and I'm with platinumpure on this - I still use them and I don't really care how much those little bulbs cost either.
As for the landing light... in a busy circuit at a busy training airfield what harm can it do to makes onesself a little more visible, both for the benefit of other a/c and ATC? Yes, I know we should all know where every other aircraft is all of the time but in the Real World we don't do we, so every little helps. And if I'm flying the heliroutes or in congested airspace and there is other traffic about then on goes the ol' landing light again. Yes, I know, more wastage of the poor old bulb but I still don't care.
Johe02 - was it a quiet day or something..?
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Denver, CO and the GOM
Age: 63
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anticollision - all the time, of course.
Position - only when it's dim enough that they are visible, otherwise, what is the point, really. At night on shutdown, they stay on to help mark the tail rotor.
Landing - on the way into the airport. Once in the pattern, it goes off. At night, used as needed.
Of course you can leave all the lights on all the time, and maybe it would give you that 0.0027% edge. On the other hand, staying late to replace the burned-out aft position light might make you 0.92% less sharp the next morning...
...man this Fetzer Bonterra Chardonnay is tasty!
Position - only when it's dim enough that they are visible, otherwise, what is the point, really. At night on shutdown, they stay on to help mark the tail rotor.
Landing - on the way into the airport. Once in the pattern, it goes off. At night, used as needed.
Of course you can leave all the lights on all the time, and maybe it would give you that 0.0027% edge. On the other hand, staying late to replace the burned-out aft position light might make you 0.92% less sharp the next morning...
...man this Fetzer Bonterra Chardonnay is tasty!
Thread Starter
DB
Yep, you got me.. .
I guess I already know the answer to my own question, but in UK the Health & Safety Nazi's really get to me sometimes. Position lights in the day just seem to be an extension of that and the only thing they do is say, 'look how safe I am, I've even got my nav lights on to increase my visibility'. There seems to be hardly anyone left with any common sense. .
The EU are still trying to push through compulsory day running lights for all road vehicles, I assume most people think this is a good thing? One day they will get away with it, making motorbikes less visible again etc
We already have the hi-viz jacket rules so we can all walk around looking like special needs school children. What next, compulsory helmets in a/c?
I blame the 'LOOK LEFT' and 'LOOK RIGHT' signs that started appearing on the roads in London about 25 years ago, interfering with the laws of natural selection. .
Yep, you got me.. .
I guess I already know the answer to my own question, but in UK the Health & Safety Nazi's really get to me sometimes. Position lights in the day just seem to be an extension of that and the only thing they do is say, 'look how safe I am, I've even got my nav lights on to increase my visibility'. There seems to be hardly anyone left with any common sense. .
The EU are still trying to push through compulsory day running lights for all road vehicles, I assume most people think this is a good thing? One day they will get away with it, making motorbikes less visible again etc
We already have the hi-viz jacket rules so we can all walk around looking like special needs school children. What next, compulsory helmets in a/c?
I blame the 'LOOK LEFT' and 'LOOK RIGHT' signs that started appearing on the roads in London about 25 years ago, interfering with the laws of natural selection. .
Last edited by Johe02; 15th Jun 2006 at 05:51.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by platinumpure
I also fly with the pulse light system operating - alternating between landing and taxi light - again very pretty (flash, flash).
Could you please explain to me what they are? I have not come across them before.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Oman
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
johe02
Another member of the Victor Meldrew club! I aree with everything you said.Where will it stop? Maybe we'll have signs on the side of aircraft saying "Aviation can be hazardous to your health"
Another member of the Victor Meldrew club! I aree with everything you said.Where will it stop? Maybe we'll have signs on the side of aircraft saying "Aviation can be hazardous to your health"
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no. no no all you guys have got it wrong, well some of you have. Remember that the cabin of your aircraft is your workplace AND you have the duty to look after yourself and others...THEREFORE you should do everything in your power to make your aircraft as conspicuous as is possible with the equipment that is fitted. The cost of light bulbs is not relevant in law.
So I would like to ask if the Robinson 66 project could be rekindled to take to account the 'safety' features that the office bound aviators would -or will - require. Ppruners, your thoughts please.
All helicopter colour schemes be banished and a standard hi viz scheme be mandatory
So I would like to ask if the Robinson 66 project could be rekindled to take to account the 'safety' features that the office bound aviators would -or will - require. Ppruners, your thoughts please.
All helicopter colour schemes be banished and a standard hi viz scheme be mandatory
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Denver, CO and the GOM
Age: 63
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Brilliant Stuff
Could you please explain to me what they <pulse lights> are? I have not come across them before.
What about wearing a Hi-Vis vest then....if one should take every precaution possible. Would that not be the next to last available step to avoid a collision?