Robinson R22 Corner [Archive copy]
T BAR CYCLIC
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London
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R22/44 Cyclic
All my hours (and they are not many) minus 0.7 are in a 22 or 44.
I got into an Enstrom 280FX with great difficulty. Actually hated the helicopter, which is surprising considering it's easier to fly than a 22. That central stick is so much a pain.
I do rest my hand on my knee, but I noticed the sweat was begining to stain my trousers, now I carry a hanky to put between the two. Quite useful on the warmer hotter days for mobbing the brow as well.
As to the 22 doors, my wife and I did our first trip after I passed my test and as always the doors started puuling away from the airframe. She thought the door was open and that she was going to fall out. Try explaining it is perfectly normal, when you've never noticed (or cared) that this happens to a hysterical wife over the top of Silverstone!
Great days.
I got into an Enstrom 280FX with great difficulty. Actually hated the helicopter, which is surprising considering it's easier to fly than a 22. That central stick is so much a pain.
I do rest my hand on my knee, but I noticed the sweat was begining to stain my trousers, now I carry a hanky to put between the two. Quite useful on the warmer hotter days for mobbing the brow as well.
As to the 22 doors, my wife and I did our first trip after I passed my test and as always the doors started puuling away from the airframe. She thought the door was open and that she was going to fall out. Try explaining it is perfectly normal, when you've never noticed (or cared) that this happens to a hysterical wife over the top of Silverstone!
Great days.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Yorkshire
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I agree it's a very clever piece of engineering design, because it's so simple and light.
But as Whirly says, if students are most comfortable with a low hand position, the instructors side is way up in the air.
As instructors are reluctant to be too obvious when 'following through' as this isn't confidence building for the student, I would assume they are not holding the cyclic quite as often as when training in a conventional stick machine.
Given the slick reaction times needed in a R22, it would seem there could be a wasted and critical half second more in taking control from a student who does something daft.
If the handle shaft was adjustable (very simple to do) it would cater for all sizes of pilots and enable instructors to shadow students movements more easily.
B47 (but long forgotten 150 hrs R22.....)
But as Whirly says, if students are most comfortable with a low hand position, the instructors side is way up in the air.
As instructors are reluctant to be too obvious when 'following through' as this isn't confidence building for the student, I would assume they are not holding the cyclic quite as often as when training in a conventional stick machine.
Given the slick reaction times needed in a R22, it would seem there could be a wasted and critical half second more in taking control from a student who does something daft.
If the handle shaft was adjustable (very simple to do) it would cater for all sizes of pilots and enable instructors to shadow students movements more easily.
B47 (but long forgotten 150 hrs R22.....)
Join Date: Mar 2002
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One thing that Frank Robinson, alone amongst helicopter designers, seems to have realized is that people (pilots) have been getting taller the last few generations. I'm quite tall, and as an instructor, when the student had his cyclic grip in a comfortable position, mine was too! The whole cabin fit like a glove and was comfortable for me, although even one inch taller would have been too much.
Conversely, I've often had a sore right wrist from the low cyclic grip in an Astar, and what Bell's engineers were thinking still escapes me. Get out of a 206L and into a 407 and your knees will scream for mercy in 30 mins. flat.
Conversely, I've often had a sore right wrist from the low cyclic grip in an Astar, and what Bell's engineers were thinking still escapes me. Get out of a 206L and into a 407 and your knees will scream for mercy in 30 mins. flat.
You'd better not tell those guys at Hiller!
You should keep this secret Robinson invention away from the guys at Hiller!
They might copy it on their products.
Also a feature of early Hiller 12's.
They might copy it on their products.
Also a feature of early Hiller 12's.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sunrise, Fl. U.S.A.
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DBCChopper,
You should try holding that thing up while doing 180 autos!
Typically student holds down by their knee, but you have your arm up in the air, took a while to get used to it.
You should try holding that thing up while doing 180 autos!
Typically student holds down by their knee, but you have your arm up in the air, took a while to get used to it.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Down Under
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Crash in Sydney
Heard on the news a R22 went down with "bits and pieces falling off it everywhere" (witness statement).
Unfortuantly 2 dead. According to media, instructor and student.
Anyone throw some light on this.
Condolences to all.
Unfortuantly 2 dead. According to media, instructor and student.
Anyone throw some light on this.
Condolences to all.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Victoria
Age: 57
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Ch 7 news said that the pilot had radioed to advise of a warning light in the cockpit. Eyewitness said there was a loud bang but no fire, and bits fell off it.
How many warning lights are there in a Robby? One for the generator not on line (not likely to cause an accident), one for the clutch light - if it drove too tight it could snap a belt, or if it disengaged you lose revs or go into auto.
But it sounds like the rotor hit the tail boom. Not a recommended practice. Very sad for F. and his student and families.
How many warning lights are there in a Robby? One for the generator not on line (not likely to cause an accident), one for the clutch light - if it drove too tight it could snap a belt, or if it disengaged you lose revs or go into auto.
But it sounds like the rotor hit the tail boom. Not a recommended practice. Very sad for F. and his student and families.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Warning lights in a R22:
MR Chip, TR Chip, Clutch, Starter, Low Fuel, Alternator, Governor Off...
Quote on news tonight was "exploded and spiralled towards the ground".
Also, they mentioned that last week the aircraft was in for "extensive maintenance".
It's never pleasant to hear news like this, and i suppose all we can do is learn from it and make it less likely to happen again...
MR Chip, TR Chip, Clutch, Starter, Low Fuel, Alternator, Governor Off...
Quote on news tonight was "exploded and spiralled towards the ground".
Also, they mentioned that last week the aircraft was in for "extensive maintenance".
It's never pleasant to hear news like this, and i suppose all we can do is learn from it and make it less likely to happen again...
And they still say its the best light helicopter on the market!! One crashed the other day in the states too, during powerline patrol, killing two persons. Makes me sad, sad, sad. They should be banned and scrapped. I don't think I've ever seen such "flimsy" parts on an airframe, and if I'm lucky I'll never sit in one again!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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No, it can't be your eyesight.
Eyesight goes after a lot of ABuse.....
Eyesight goes after a lot of ABuse.....
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SE England
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So which way do they curve then?
If you mean downwards when stationary, then I think that'll be due to the flexibility in the structure. The droop decreases when they are rotating due to centrifugal force, as far as I know (I stand to be corrected if that's wrong). I don't have bags of experience, but if I found them curving any other way I think I'd get the bus (and I hate buses).
Or, have I missed a very obvious rotary joke?
If you mean downwards when stationary, then I think that'll be due to the flexibility in the structure. The droop decreases when they are rotating due to centrifugal force, as far as I know (I stand to be corrected if that's wrong). I don't have bags of experience, but if I found them curving any other way I think I'd get the bus (and I hate buses).
Or, have I missed a very obvious rotary joke?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
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A Tragic Loss
A Great man died yesterday, Fraser Shannon was a friend to many and will be greatly missed by all who have had the pleasure to have known him.
A great pilot and Instructor that the industry will miss, I trained with Fraser and was fortunate enough to have spent some time with him during the Major Bush Fires in Jindabyne N.S.W
We spent many a day saving lives during the fires and fraser was liked by all.
I believe the aircraft had just come out of the work shop and believe it had problems with blade tracking and balancing, sounds like the A/C fell apart in flight?
TO A FRIEND AND FELLOW AVIATOR I WILL MISS YOU. REST IN PEACE MY FRIEND...
A great pilot and Instructor that the industry will miss, I trained with Fraser and was fortunate enough to have spent some time with him during the Major Bush Fires in Jindabyne N.S.W
We spent many a day saving lives during the fires and fraser was liked by all.
I believe the aircraft had just come out of the work shop and believe it had problems with blade tracking and balancing, sounds like the A/C fell apart in flight?
TO A FRIEND AND FELLOW AVIATOR I WILL MISS YOU. REST IN PEACE MY FRIEND...
Join Date: May 2003
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Yes Fraser Shannon was a great bloke and a very thorough pilot and taught me a lot about aircraft navigation as I used to train with him when I was out at Bankstown Helicopters doing my CPL training.
He used to be a carpenter and as I understand built the Bankstown Helicopters hangers and I remember the day when he went full time as a helicopter pilot dropping his carpentry career.
Out of all the pilots there, Terry McGowan and Fraser Shannon were my favourite instructors to fly with because they passed on a lot of wisdom and skill. Unfortunately he has left behind 2 kids and a wife and I just hope that they will be able to cope in the coming years without too much pain.
And the uncanny thing is that when I was driving to work the other day, I heard Fraser's voice on 2WS, because he was advertising fundraising for Child Flight or Care Flight.....whereever he did his air-medical work (not sure).
Anyway Fraser old mate, you taught me a lot and I will never forget you. Also my condolences go to the 18 year old student that died with him. A very sad indeed.
RIP
He used to be a carpenter and as I understand built the Bankstown Helicopters hangers and I remember the day when he went full time as a helicopter pilot dropping his carpentry career.
Out of all the pilots there, Terry McGowan and Fraser Shannon were my favourite instructors to fly with because they passed on a lot of wisdom and skill. Unfortunately he has left behind 2 kids and a wife and I just hope that they will be able to cope in the coming years without too much pain.
And the uncanny thing is that when I was driving to work the other day, I heard Fraser's voice on 2WS, because he was advertising fundraising for Child Flight or Care Flight.....whereever he did his air-medical work (not sure).
Anyway Fraser old mate, you taught me a lot and I will never forget you. Also my condolences go to the 18 year old student that died with him. A very sad indeed.
RIP
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Frazer is the one person who comes to mind with whom I would have most liked to have had a beer with sometime....even though I never had the opportunity to work along side Frazer, our paths still tended to cross regularly.
Frazer, aside from being a professional in his field, was just an allround genuine guy who always stood out amongst the backdrop of personalities that makes up our industry.
My condolences extend to family and friends and to everyone that had the privellige of knowing Frazer.
Frazer, aside from being a professional in his field, was just an allround genuine guy who always stood out amongst the backdrop of personalities that makes up our industry.
My condolences extend to family and friends and to everyone that had the privellige of knowing Frazer.