AS350 Astar/Squirrel
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Nubian,
So we move from section 2 to section 4. "Normal Procedures Section tells you WHAT to do". Ok, here's what I want to do. I land and I need to briefly visit with someone on the ground. I want to go to idle while I do so. Are you saying that section 4 says to use the overhead switch instead of the throttle if I need to go to idle? Again, can you reference the page because I can't find that in section 4. How to shutdown the aircraft is, so i dont see anyone using the emergency fuel cutoff. So if it's not a limitation as per section 2 and it's not specifically addressed in section 4 normal procedures than one method Vs the other is merely a matter of technique. Or, are you saying you never go to idle because it's not addressed in section 4? We do a lot of autorotations in our B3 which is no doubt the cause for the play between the throttles because something has simply worn out. I'm hoping to find someone who may have experienced the same and can help me identify the suspected part prior to our next inspection. You're not that someone. Cheers!
So we move from section 2 to section 4. "Normal Procedures Section tells you WHAT to do". Ok, here's what I want to do. I land and I need to briefly visit with someone on the ground. I want to go to idle while I do so. Are you saying that section 4 says to use the overhead switch instead of the throttle if I need to go to idle? Again, can you reference the page because I can't find that in section 4. How to shutdown the aircraft is, so i dont see anyone using the emergency fuel cutoff. So if it's not a limitation as per section 2 and it's not specifically addressed in section 4 normal procedures than one method Vs the other is merely a matter of technique. Or, are you saying you never go to idle because it's not addressed in section 4? We do a lot of autorotations in our B3 which is no doubt the cause for the play between the throttles because something has simply worn out. I'm hoping to find someone who may have experienced the same and can help me identify the suspected part prior to our next inspection. You're not that someone. Cheers!
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Signcutter-we have always considered using the "twist grip" only in training and emergency. There has been a few ASB's on the solenoied and the use of the twist grip so I see it as a emergency function and not standard procedure as per the Arriel 2B1 but that is my interpretation.
Regarding the problem. If the co-plt twist grip operates correctly and extinghuishes the "GOV and Twist grip" lights then you need to replace the torque tube running between the pilot and coplt twist grip. This is quite a big job due to the amount of disassemble required as the torque tube runs internally inside the collective control tube.
Shout if I can help further or if you have more info
Regarding the problem. If the co-plt twist grip operates correctly and extinghuishes the "GOV and Twist grip" lights then you need to replace the torque tube running between the pilot and coplt twist grip. This is quite a big job due to the amount of disassemble required as the torque tube runs internally inside the collective control tube.
Shout if I can help further or if you have more info
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VP
Yes it's the copilot side that will extinguish the lights. The mechs were saying something about u-joints but I'm not quite sure where these are located. I'm going to pass your info on to them and hopefully we can minimize the down time.
I spoke with a former factory instructor and he said it's a common problem with the 2B. Our bird has approx 3300 hrs on it and it's used quite often for auto training. Idle time on the ground probably results in the use of both the switch and twist grip depending on the pilot at the time. We have had the aircraft since 02 and were initially told not to use the switch for idle. This instructor was factory trained. Recently we were advised to continue to use the twist grip because we are picking up a 2b1 soon and the twist grip is used on that aircraft. I agree that using the switch results in less moving parts and less likely to cause problems. No doubt are training got the best of it.
We plan on taking care of it in a few weeks, I'll get back with you on the outcome.
Thanks again
Yes it's the copilot side that will extinguish the lights. The mechs were saying something about u-joints but I'm not quite sure where these are located. I'm going to pass your info on to them and hopefully we can minimize the down time.
I spoke with a former factory instructor and he said it's a common problem with the 2B. Our bird has approx 3300 hrs on it and it's used quite often for auto training. Idle time on the ground probably results in the use of both the switch and twist grip depending on the pilot at the time. We have had the aircraft since 02 and were initially told not to use the switch for idle. This instructor was factory trained. Recently we were advised to continue to use the twist grip because we are picking up a 2b1 soon and the twist grip is used on that aircraft. I agree that using the switch results in less moving parts and less likely to cause problems. No doubt are training got the best of it.
We plan on taking care of it in a few weeks, I'll get back with you on the outcome.
Thanks again
On a related note, the FAA has released an AD covering the AS350B3 post MOD 073254 (2B1) and the EC130B4 post MOD 073773. Effective November 18, 2010, AD 2010-21-07 requires a check of the forced idle micro-switches on the twist grip prior to conducting a practice autorotation or within 100 hours, and repetitively thereafter, every 600 hours. EASA issued a similar AD (2009-0256) on December 2, 2009.
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signcutter, get a copy of Information Notice no. 2169-I-67. it has got lengthy explanations, recommendations and previous experiences regarding the twist grips use etc. Hope it helps!
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bolkow, it is probably just me but i do not catch the relevance of your statement?
signcutter, i hope you enjoy the read. If you have access to TIPI, you will find quite a few information notices and service letters as well as sb's related to the twist grip of both the 2B1 and 2B and mod statusses. It is important to know what machine you are in especially when it comes to moving the twist grip with the battery off!
signcutter, i hope you enjoy the read. If you have access to TIPI, you will find quite a few information notices and service letters as well as sb's related to the twist grip of both the 2B1 and 2B and mod statusses. It is important to know what machine you are in especially when it comes to moving the twist grip with the battery off!
signcutter,
I assume from your comment "go to idle and visit someone" means get out of the aircraft while it is at idle.
Read the RFM for the B3 and you may find a statement that precludes this.
There has been a fairly big bunfight with a certain NAA over this point as the RFM In the B3 and B4 is different from the "analog" 350's.
I am not 100% sure but there is something on the 2B, 2B1's where with an electrical failure the engine defaults to FLIGHT. I saw someone wheel a B3 out and not check that the battery was connected. Performed a ground power start and on disconnection of the GPU it ran up to FLIGHT!
This what I was told after the surprised look on certain faces. Might be worth checking into.
I assume from your comment "go to idle and visit someone" means get out of the aircraft while it is at idle.
Read the RFM for the B3 and you may find a statement that precludes this.
There has been a fairly big bunfight with a certain NAA over this point as the RFM In the B3 and B4 is different from the "analog" 350's.
I am not 100% sure but there is something on the 2B, 2B1's where with an electrical failure the engine defaults to FLIGHT. I saw someone wheel a B3 out and not check that the battery was connected. Performed a ground power start and on disconnection of the GPU it ran up to FLIGHT!
This what I was told after the surprised look on certain faces. Might be worth checking into.
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RVDT
I haven't seen anything in the RFM that precludes you from doing it but you are correct about the engine going to flight following a power loss. I've seen this demonstrated a couple times, however, I believe it only went to fly when the overhead switch was at idle and the twist grip was at fly not the other way around. I could be wrong on that but it would be worth looking into. I'm leaving for Grand Prairie today to pick up a new 2B1 and hopefully I can corner a maintenance pilot regarding some of our 2B issues. I'm going to run that question by them as well.
Thanks
I haven't seen anything in the RFM that precludes you from doing it but you are correct about the engine going to flight following a power loss. I've seen this demonstrated a couple times, however, I believe it only went to fly when the overhead switch was at idle and the twist grip was at fly not the other way around. I could be wrong on that but it would be worth looking into. I'm leaving for Grand Prairie today to pick up a new 2B1 and hopefully I can corner a maintenance pilot regarding some of our 2B issues. I'm going to run that question by them as well.
Thanks
signcutter,
I think it is the statement under minimum occupants i.e. "one pilot at the controls" which is evidently not in the "analog" RFM's which caused the issue.
I think it is the statement under minimum occupants i.e. "one pilot at the controls" which is evidently not in the "analog" RFM's which caused the issue.
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I have flown all 3 generations of B3's. Have been the maintenance pilot...and the "aircraft rescue" pilot on all of our problems (quite a few)with the 2b's an 2B-1. What you experienced was the aircraft "emergency mode". If you have any issues with twist grip switches, governor lights/indications...or any issue (questionable data) within the fadec, the machine goes into a 100% flight flight idle state. It then basically ignores any further inputs, until on the ground, shut down and then re booted. Even when you land you shut the engine down from 100%. That said...if you read the POM...all the warning responses are land .... (I assume this is because the machine is flying in emergency mode).
I have lots more stories.
I have lots more stories.
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Where we work with both B3 and B3+, I only have the worlds respect for them taking the worsed conditions, temps, altitudes imaginable and just operating day in and day out. Yes they default to typical Squirrel work mode if we try and confuse them or they got it right themselves. I will take a helicopter defaulting to flight anytime. We often find the ultimate rest switch, being the battery off then on again, resets the system and a problem is sorted out during the power up calibration sequence and if not even pilots can figure out which plug to loosen and clean and refit by going to the maintenance page. 99% of the time she operates like a dream again.
One of the Information Notices as well as a service Letter you will find on TIPI is the one from EC informing all that on a 350 no rotors turning is allowed without a rated pilot or qualified person behind the controls. Shout and I will provide the reference.
Signcutter, enjoy the B3+ as it can't be simpler!
One of the Information Notices as well as a service Letter you will find on TIPI is the one from EC informing all that on a 350 no rotors turning is allowed without a rated pilot or qualified person behind the controls. Shout and I will provide the reference.
Signcutter, enjoy the B3+ as it can't be simpler!
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Victor Papa,
I couldn't agree more!! It is my favorite machine. It is even better when you get through the hic-ups and have S**t figured out... so when the battery is low (and there is no indication) and you are heliskiing, at minus 10...you know why you have a hung start on an early B3. Overal, the system is an awsome pilot minded concept. Who doesn't like leaving all up at 8000' at 78% torque!!
I couldn't agree more!! It is my favorite machine. It is even better when you get through the hic-ups and have S**t figured out... so when the battery is low (and there is no indication) and you are heliskiing, at minus 10...you know why you have a hung start on an early B3. Overal, the system is an awsome pilot minded concept. Who doesn't like leaving all up at 8000' at 78% torque!!
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Hey VP,
Just got the new 2B1 home. Great flight, great ship. Come to find out the other 2B1 we picked up that day (different crew) had a RH hyd failure. After landing they found both the ac and Hyd belts trashed. Have you ever heard of one belt taking out the other?
Just got the new 2B1 home. Great flight, great ship. Come to find out the other 2B1 we picked up that day (different crew) had a RH hyd failure. After landing they found both the ac and Hyd belts trashed. Have you ever heard of one belt taking out the other?
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Eurocopter News
IRAQ ORDERS 7 B3s
Marignane, France, 1st Nov 2010
Iraq orders 7 Eurocopter choppers
Marignane, France, 1st Nov 2010
Eurocopter has signed an agreement to supply seven AS350 B3 Ecureuil helicopters to the Iraqi Ministry of Agriculture.
The helicopters will be used for crop spraying missions over vast fields of date palm trees, which provide a major source of agricultural revenue for the country.
Deliveries of these single-engine workhorse rotary-wing aircraft will begin in the first quarter of 2011, with Eurocopter providing training sessions for Iraqi personnel at its facility in South Africa.
The AS350 B3 is perfectly tailored for hot and high operations in Iraq, and will be fully equipped to perform the aerial spraying of date palm tree fields that occurs several times each year, a spokesperson said.
“This is an extremely important contract for Eurocopter, as the AS350 B3 fleet will contribute to the development of a stable economy in Iraq,” said Olivier Lambert, Eurocopter’s vice president sales and customers relations.-TradeArabia News Service
The helicopters will be used for crop spraying missions over vast fields of date palm trees, which provide a major source of agricultural revenue for the country.
Deliveries of these single-engine workhorse rotary-wing aircraft will begin in the first quarter of 2011, with Eurocopter providing training sessions for Iraqi personnel at its facility in South Africa.
The AS350 B3 is perfectly tailored for hot and high operations in Iraq, and will be fully equipped to perform the aerial spraying of date palm tree fields that occurs several times each year, a spokesperson said.
“This is an extremely important contract for Eurocopter, as the AS350 B3 fleet will contribute to the development of a stable economy in Iraq,” said Olivier Lambert, Eurocopter’s vice president sales and customers relations.-TradeArabia News Service
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Hapless French Plastic Lining
Has anyone experienced on a very hot day say 100 deg F and above, the plastic roof lining ceiling falls down from the roof. Also the plastic in the cockpit between the 2 windscreens become so distorted from the heat that it "curves" from the roof to the bottom of the windscreen.
How do you stop it from happening other than removing the lining altogether?
Thanks
BF
How do you stop it from happening other than removing the lining altogether?
Thanks
BF
sfim Autopilot/starter query
Any comments appreciated on use and maintenance of 2 axis SFIM auto pilot in a BA that I have just bought 93 model with 5,000tt. What to look out for and traps. I believe they are 200k plus to get in new so I am thinking it will be good gear. Have never flown with ap before. Ques: Can it be operated with sas on but autopilot pitch,roll,alt,hdg off. If so how?
One other query, I know you take finger of start button at 40/45% but does the starter/gen automatically disengage at 45% anyway? What happens if you were to keep the button depressed beyond say 60%?
One other query, I know you take finger of start button at 40/45% but does the starter/gen automatically disengage at 45% anyway? What happens if you were to keep the button depressed beyond say 60%?
Griffothefog
Naive well I didn't see that coming, I actually asked both questions of experienced as350 guys (i'm not of course) and they weren't sure. The flight manual extract doesn't say one way or the other regarding AP. Considering there are so few AP's fitted I don't think it is covered in endorsement to type, unless it was installed in the a/c you do it in. I have an engine training manual which says the starter reverts to generator over 45% but doesn't say that is activated by taking finger of button or is an automatic function irrespective. Maybe if your not naive you would actually have an answer ( no offence)
Naive well I didn't see that coming, I actually asked both questions of experienced as350 guys (i'm not of course) and they weren't sure. The flight manual extract doesn't say one way or the other regarding AP. Considering there are so few AP's fitted I don't think it is covered in endorsement to type, unless it was installed in the a/c you do it in. I have an engine training manual which says the starter reverts to generator over 45% but doesn't say that is activated by taking finger of button or is an automatic function irrespective. Maybe if your not naive you would actually have an answer ( no offence)