PC Plod delivers notam personally!

[Gaseous]

What the hell is this country coming to?

Today PC plod and sidekick turned up at my house which is a whole mile outsite the temporary restricted area set up for a 'VIP visit', and threatened that if I went flying I would be intercepted by Lancs ASU - or worse! I told him I intended to fly, I was aware of the notam and I was within my rights to fly as I was outside, and would remain outside the TRA. He said, 'No, you misunderstand. I really advise you dont fly - and if you do, keep away from XXXX'. (which is outside the TRA). Very difficult as it is only 500 yards from my LZ.

I took this as a threat. I didn't fly.

This country is turning into a police state. - And all because Jack Straw wants to invite a 'personal guest'
I hope he is paying the security bill personally.

Rant over.

[Thomas coupling]

In accordance with art 96 of the ANO, Jacks mate, the Secretary of state for Transport has been asked for a Temp restriction for flying regs over this area. The ECA (C Constable for Lancs) has initiated it and bingo - no-one allowed in (except the police helo etc).
You can certainly fly outside it - you should have stuck to your guns and gone flying (remaining outside) to see what happened. - Wussy

[Gaseous]

Point Taken TC. However, my Enstrom doesnt have any guns and the Brazilian on the tube was in the right.

Why send 2 coppers round if they dont mean it?

[northseawannabe-not]

pussy

Gaseous vbmenu_register("postmenu_2492006", true); ,
It is people like you that will let the country turn in to a police state. Running away with your tale between your legs lets these people think they can do what they want. Grow some balls and stick by your guns , just keep it all legal and no one can say a word.

[PANews]

That is very unfair of you northseawannabe... He was facing the double threat in uniforms and not you.

Now would you have really dared risk your licence if not more over a point of order - knowing that there were armed Yanks out there - or is that a real Wannabe posting?

[twinstar_ca]

that's a real wannabe posting... i think the prudent thing was to not fly, but i'd be writing letters and making calls to any opposition member of the parliament and giving date, time, and details..

[Autostart Abort]

Gaseaus

I regret to say you did the right thing. If they so wished, you could be seriously stitched up with great ease. My view is that was a threat, no doubt.

Although the majority of Police are honest individuals, in time they can become corrupted simply because they are coloured by the company they keep!

For example, a previous Met Commissioner said corruption is beyond repair in the police force!

The Police force from my experience is institutionally corrupt, procedures exist within police which are designed to assist police corruption and dishonesty. The result being that if these characters are cowboys, they can easily fit you up if required.

Anyone with half a brain cell is aware that time and time again police falsify evidence to fit honest citizens up, one way or another they will screw you if they want to and there is no one to police the police.

Therefore it is not worth chancing it. You have no way of knowing if these two characters are decent like the majority or police officers..or not.

Lastly don’t bother writing to anyone as no one would give a toss!

We are sleepwalking into a rather unpleasant society and by the time anyone realises it will be too late!

[Islandcrazy]

Oh Dear......

Gaseous / Auto-Start,

I gotta say thanks to you both for giving me a good laugh at your posts!

Its nice to see balanced opinions about local law enforcement. Oh wait a minute one of you lives in Lancashire and the other in London and thats two completely different forces. Oh no.... that must mean that all the British police forces and every one of the officers are corrupt and conspiring together to make the UK into a police state... so that they can stop people having fun by flying.

Goodness maybe they are also in league with the CAA as I thought that was what they were attempting to do. Come to think of it I think I remember that being in the national policing priorities somewhere:

1. Reduce drug crime
2. Reduce terrorism
3. Reduce burglary
4. Reduce crimes of violence
5. Reduce pilots fun by introducing flying restrictons for no reason.

Yes thats it its one of the top priorities for policing to hassle poor pilots. Let me think......what will Lancs ASU be doing next? Pulling over aircraft for speeding and check their tyres and tax discs? After all they will have nothing better to do......

Pleeeese

IC

[TOT]

which notam refers to this?

which notam refers to this?

thanks

[topendtorque]

Gaseous

I don’t savvy the bits about Brazilian tube and xxxx, if it was outside the area.

I guess we have to believe that you hadn’t a habit of over-flying / perving on Jack’s back yard and so the reason for the plod door-knock was as you say.

I agree that writing to any public servant can be exasperating, they may well be duty bound to respond to a letter but where is a rulebook that says how or when? Unless you have a 'tricky dicky' over there then the ombudsman may be an answer.

Perhaps you could have invited them in for a nice friendly cup of tea so they could see that there was no MPMG or rocket launcher behind the front door just waiting to be clipped to said Enstrom and invited them to use your phone to help verify the legalities of their assertions.

I had once the same problem, although the cup of tea invite wasn’t quite delivered with grace and came after a long and angry discourse; I was 2nm’s ouside a restricted area. It was something like;
getyerf’narsedownereanseeferyerf’nself.

Before they arrived, my wife had created a lovely snack of scones etc and had extracted –err forced—from me an admission that there were to be no smart arse comments about how our pilots can find their f’n way to any point on a wac map without radar, INS, gps or anything etc.

Understandably, she was most attentive during the morning pleasantries where we discussed the wx and everything - except - navigation.

I was coy enough to note (without comment again!) that they had a full S76 load of gents most with three or more shoulder bars and what looked like birds feathers all over their shirts.
I guess the S76 driver must have been real glad about having all those navigation trained blokes on board especially as the biggest feathered one of the lot sat up front with him to show him the way!

My wife must have been the smartest of all as guess what? I never had another prob with clearances.

[on21]

Let these guys know on the link what went on, take it from me, people complain at the drop of a hat about what the police do legitametly I know, but this is out of order, if they wanted a bigger TRA they should have got one, and not turned up heavy handed. Incidents like this don't do anybody any favors.
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/

[PANews]

Perhaps Gaseous should look it another way.

For years we have complained that the modern p'lice have lost the plot and yet here we have a clear example of the police knowing he had a flying machine and then finding his house - and before the TRA expired!

Well I suppose they cheated - there were two of them!

[[email protected]]

This has got cock-all to do with the police - they are just implementing (probably unhappily) the will of the Government. The Americans will have insisted on the highest levels of security for Condoleeza's visit and, as ever, the govt will have rolled over and played bitch.
The police are in the front line and always take the flak for unfortunate situations brought on by politicians looking to curry favour with other countries (remember the Chinese visit).

Gaseous did the right thing not going flying even though he would have been within his rights to do so - why stir up a hornets nest just because you can?

[headsethair]

Take it from me, the TRA (which is still active today) was unusually issued as 3000ft AGL. This even confused the Lancs police pilot who kept referring (in his exchanges with Warton ATC) to 3000ft altitude.

Blackburn was the centre of the TRA and the ground level varies from 500-800ft within the TRA. Manchester airspace starts at 4500 on 1013mb. So trying to stay legal above the TRA was not an easy thing to do.

And you have to question the whole reason why the TRA was established. It didn't even cover the Salmesbury BAe site where Dr Rice made her first speech - so anyone could have legally flown over this old airfield using the 500ft rule!

Later the same day there were no TRAs for Liverpool where the good doctor made further appearances. So why the Blackburn TRA ???

Nice shot of Lancs ASU EC135 on BBC News 24 yesterday! Couldn't see whether the pilot was one of the famed members of this Forum.......and he probably won't own up now given the "altitude" problem.

In answer to the original query, the Police do not police the skies - that is the job of the CAA. If anyone from CAA or DAP knocks on your door, pay attention. But to send a (presumably) non-aviation police officer to you - outside the TRA - is just not on. Draw the TRA and your site on your chart and file a complaint with DAP at Holborn.

[Gaseous]

TOT Notam (J1161/06)

topend torque.

I did invite them in and show them the notam. I also had the TRA ready plotted on a chart which they agreed was correct. It was after this that they offered the 'advice.' Throughout they were friendly and courteous.

To me it appears that the TRA had been made too small as Ms Rice visited BAE at Samlesbury which is also outside the TRA. This smacks of the authorities covering themselves. XXXX is where she spent the night. Hoghton Tower in fact. I did not want to name this until it had been announced in the media. I dont want another visit from plod.

Call me a softy by all means but yes, I am intimidated.

PA news. They indeed knew what they were doing as they addressed me by my name. Someone appears to know how G-info works and I dont think it was the two individuals who turned up.

edit to correct spelling of Samlesbury.

[Colonal Mustard]

Originally Posted by Gaseous

TOT Notam (J1161/06)
topend torque.
I did invite them in and show them the notam. I also had the TRA ready plotted on a chart which they agreed was correct. It was after this that they offered the 'advice.' Throughout they were friendly and courteous.
To me it appears that the TRA had been made too small as Ms Rice visited BAE at Salmsbury which is also outside the TRA. This smacks of the authorities covering themselves. XXXX is where she spent the night. Hoghton Tower in fact. I did not want to name this until it had been announced in the media. I dont want another visit from plod.
Call me a softy by all means but yes, I am intimidated.
PA news. They indeed knew what they were doing as they addressed me by my name. Someone appears to know how G-info works and I dont think it was the two individuals who turned up.

But remember, every time you use a pc you leave a trace.

think about this
go to here and put your reg in,
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...pplicationid=1

then go to here
http://www.b4usearch.com/

click the people tab and enter your name and town and voila, we know all about your occupants AND your neighbours

Simple really

[helicopter-redeye]

Gaseous, you only need REALLY worry if they call you by your Prune Name ....

h-r

[Autostart Abort]

Islandcrazy

Before you enjoy yourself too much with laughing, have another read of the post.

The vast majority of the police join up relatively daft but honest, and the majority remain honest to some extent. However over time dishonesty becomes normal and gradually the line of where honesty and dishonesty start slowly moves.

For instance, I know a copper who regularly encourages witness for the prosecution for lie in their statements to enable an easier conviction. This is done is the belief that he is doing the right thing in protection the public..so is this dishonest? The intention may be good? Ok he may have a greater success in getting convictions but what if he makes a mistake?

Island crazy - The police have guidelines that are recommended by the Lord Chief Justice, this applies to all Police forces. These guidelines can be easily manipulated and interpreted to hide police dishonesty and corruption.
Bottom line is any police officer with a small amount of experience will know how to use the guidelines to their advantage. The IPCC have no teeth and are hopeless.

Ignore any threats at your peril!

[Agaricus bisporus]

Gaseous, I think it is appalling that they intimidated you like that. If you are a whole mile outside the zone you are outside it, pure and simple, and they utterly exceeded their authority if they used coercion ot threats, real or implicit, to prevent you from doing what was legal. What would you make of a cop telling you not to even think of doing 20 in a 30 limit...You'd laugh in his face, wouldn't you! Having said that they clearly did intimidate you, and I think that is grounds for a formal complaint. I'm also a bit surprised at the suggestion someone made that they can "fit you up". How? If you've done nothing wrong they can't. The whole point is their threats were empty, and they knew it, they had no way of preventing you going flying at all.

I would be intercepted by Lancs ASU - or worse!

So what if the police helo "intercepts" you. What is it going to do, except take photos? It has no right or ability to force you down or divert your course. How could it if you are clear of the TRA? The "Or worse?" is more worrying, and I would take that as a direct threat to my physical safety, which is probably a criminal offence.

From their point of view I can only guess that the Gold Commander had seen how twitched the US security people got even when they saw anything in the sky at all, and knowing they pack tools that reach some way beyond a mere 3 mile exclusion zone decided to make sure no-one got an excuse to become a little over-zealous.

Makes you wonder why they didn't make it a 5 mile zone...

Slap in a formal complaint mate! It's a shameful state of affairs when an honest citizen is put in fear of his own police force by being threatened not to something that he is perfectly entitled to do.

relatively daft but honest

I loved that bit! And yes, they just go down from there.

[lup]

A friend of mine was once a police officer, and a good example springs to mind.
You may be aware that there is no law of trespass in this country, except for British rail and HM dockyard where there are statutes that cover trespass.
In other words, if someone enders your land or house for that matter (without criminal intent) you the owner of said land have the common law right to ask them to leave, and if they refuse,to use minimum force,(take them by the arm and eject them off your land).

To relate this to this situation, when a police officer is called to a restaurant where some drunken yobs are causing trouble but not commiting any offence, he uses his uniform and the sure fact that the said yobs do not know the law of trespass, to tell them to leave, after asking the owner to also ask them to leave.
If they refuse, the officer will usually assist the owner in ejecting them, What happens on the street in a public place is then up to the officer, the police and criminal evidence act 1984 and public order offences will give him further options, (In the interest of the public).

My point is this, the septic tanks were probably the ones who were over the top about a helicopter based nearby, the secret service distrust everyone, they demanded to our spooks that you did not fly.
That was eventually pased to Gold (senior officer IC and responsible for the TRA)
Gold who has much more to worry about than a little helicopter near his TRA, passes it down to the local senior officer, who would not know a TRA if it bit him in the neck,passes it to his inspector.
Eventually two beat officers get told to tell Mr X not to fly, everybody knows they have no right to do this, so the best course of action is to relate it to the yobs in the restaurant.
They would have driven away, snorting "he fell for that one" and the message would have got back to the spooks that everything was sorted.

This is unacceptable, TRA's are a power that the police can abuse, and the CAA won't stick up for us against them.
But in this case, they had absolutely no right to intimidate you into letting some area commander off the hook.
They would have sort the advise of the Air Support Unit, who would or should have told him that you were well within your rights to fly, but that would not have been good enough!

I had an incident at a hotel landing site where on landing,the manager produced a special branch form for the passenger names,where we are going etc.

When I asked him why,he informed me that SB had told him that as he had helicopter movements from time to time they needed a record of who was flying where with whom.
I advised him of when these forms were needed to be completed and that what they told him was a load of b%*!&^$t.
But there you have it, the old trespass chestnut again.
We need to complain otherwise the freedoms we enjoy in the uk helicopter world will slowly but surely be eroded.

Although you may not be a member of the HAB, they represent our industry and at least have the power to raise issues with the CAA, who usually reply to these issues.
Posting it here was probably the best thing you could have done, believe me, police pilots read this stuff and so does the CAA!

Before the negative comments come flooding in, I am in general pro police and think overall they carry out a good and difficult job.