PC Plod delivers notam personally!

[Heliport]

topendtorque

I don’t savvy the bits about Brazilian tube and xxxx, if it was outside the area.

Gaseous was pointing out that being in the right/not doing anything wrong is no consolation if you're dead.

In July last year, Police in London shot a Brazilian on his way to work - apparently in the mistaken belief he was a terrorist.

After some initial Police announcements to the contrary, and some allegations about his behaviour which turned out to be untrue, we now know he had no connection whatsoever with terrorism. He was just an electrican on his way to work.
There's an ongoing investigation into the shooting - we don't yet know what led the police to make such a tragic mistake.

H.

[Gaseous]

Update.
I haven't flown.

Today the level of security around here has been awesome. I have been out but my neighbour tells me a patrol car has been past my house about every 20 minutes or so. The road is a dead end. Lancs ASU has been over 'quite a lot'. I counted 2 police bikes, 2 cars and 2 Range Rovers within half a mile of my house on my way out this morning. I dont think it was an empty threat. I dont know what would have happened if I had attempted to take off. I have never seen anything like it. I suspect the moment I hit the start button the place would have been crawling with gentlemen offering more advice. I dont for a minute think any of this was aimed at me personally. My helicopter just happens to be in the wrong place and they dont want it flying. Forget whats legal.


The whole thing is outrageous but it appears the security has been orchestrated from the top level. Yes I will complain but I expect it will be brushed aside.

It says a lot about the powers that run (abuse) this country and its law abiding citizens.


Edit. My wife has just been past the local church yard which is packed with numerous Police vehicles and 2 ambulances. A big sign proclaims 'Decontamination unit'.

WTF is going on???

No more visitors like Dr Rice, please Mr Straw.

[Letsby Avenue]

One does wonder why that twerp of a Foreign Secretary thinks that taking the world's most powerful woman to Blackburn is a good idea? Could he be appeasing his own voters by giving them an opportunity to vent their collective spleens at her?

With regards to Gaseous's plight - Disgusting, I would have phoned the Daily Mail and took off with a reporter on board Did you get the collar No's?

[lup]

Gaseous, my post appeared in the first page.
I think you made the right choice, and I think the senior police officer was praying you did not fly, as he would have looked like a muppet.

You sound like a guy who, if the police asked you if you wouldn't mind not flying dispite not being affected by the TRA, you would have said no problem, I know I would in your situation.
The way they went about it was, in my opinion wrong, and someone should be advised, so that similar situations don't happen again, good on you.
It's the BHAB, typo on my first post, they are there for commercial operators, but worth a try.

[Gaseous]

I'm a member of the AOPA. They seem pretty active on pilots rights etc. Ill give them a call. My wife is frantically writing to MPs now!

[lup]

I was affected by the TRA the day after the bombs went off in London.
They told me that it would be lifted at 1000 local.
I called West Drayton(WD) at 1005, they said "yep all been lifted".
Just to make sure I called the police liason just to make sure.
They said as far as they were concerned it was still in place, (made the mistake of telling the passengers defore I checked with the police), but hey WD were most insistant.
I recalled WD, took about 5 minutes to get through to the controller I had first spoken to.
He told me he was sorry, it had been lifted, but funny old thing he had just received a call from the police puting it back in place untill further notice.

Good liason eh!

[Thomas coupling]

I sometimes wonder if I'm the odd one out (no cryptic comments plz ) but does the general public really think they have any say in matters like this?
There is a lot of veneer with most governments. That is to say they indoctrinate the public by various political means. But underneath it all, it's a different matter. I happen to think this country is one of the luckier ones but at the end of the day the GOVERNMENT (any government) has the power to do whatever it likes (provided it doesn't get caught!). The public might think the exact opposite but what goes on behind closed doors with (for instance):
arms trading
destabilising other countries
brokering deals
oil
TERRORISM
will never see daylight for decades to come. The government of a country does what it has to do to either jostle for global (economic/financial/military) positioning or (with other unlucky countries) asset stripping and plundering.

This Lancashire example is a molecular snippet of what really goes on behind the scenes. Rice is a level 1 target and the machinery rolls into action.
Gaseous's flying activities are perceived as a possible fragment (a speck) of security fallout which can be cleared up quickly and easily with avisit from the lads - job done.

Letters to BHAB / local MP / papers are numbingly ineffective and simply serve to remind us all - the naivity of such an action. Does anyone honestly believe that the right honourable george formby (Lancs) is going to have any sway in his supporting statement for your complaints in the house? It's about as relevant as what type of biscuits there are in their coffee break!

Accept that "the machinery" is being used for good and not (unlike some places) against the general public for some sinister evil reasons.

Save your pen and ink for something really important like getting the troops out of IRAQ.

[NLJ]

Setting the record straight.

I thought I'd join this forum to set the record straight concerning the Blackburn TRA. I was the duty Lancs ASU Pilot both today and yesterday, and can assure Gaseous that he would not have been intercepted had he got airborne from his site as he was clearly outside the boundary of the TRA, and as far as I and the two Police Observers on board were concerned was free to come and go as he pleased. If the Op's planning department of Lancashire Constabulary can't sort out the dimensions of a TRA that would cover all sites to be visited by the Principal, that's their problem. Lancashire Constabulary have had air support for just over 11 years now and still don't know how to use us properly. We weren't even included in the Operational Order!! If I tell you that they originally asked for an upper limit of 9000' for the TRA you can see how far their understanding of aviation goes.
I don't know who headsethair is but for the record I always knew what the dimensions of the TRA were and never actually had a discussion with Wartion ATC on the matter. You must have been listening in on someone elses conversations!

[Dantruck]

Helpful suggestion follows for all such instances.

Recently I have had two similar experiences...one with H.M. Customs; the second with VOSA (the UK's commercial Vehicle and Operator Services Agency). Both situations concerned the legal operation of a large truck.

Having been challenged on a legal point about which I knew I was on solid ground I uttered the following:

"Certainly officer...but I will trouble you to state your request in writing."

On profering pen and paper both uniformed herberts took on a remarkably similar appearance. Both suddenly developed a fascination with their own shoelaces. This was quickly followed by furtive glances at their colleagues, rapidly accompanied by incohenrent muttering and, finally, by backward steps and various chuntering along the lines of 'Let that be a warning to you.'

On both occasions I am pleased to report I resisted the retort to "Go and takle a flying **** at a rolling doughnut," or something silmilar, but either way, have not been troubled since.

Police state?...Only if you let them

[lup]

Thomas coupling,you are very odd!!!
It's a government thing, oh well we should let them get away with anything they like and it's useless to complain,why waste our ink!!!!!!

Let's use our time better by getting the troops out of Iraq eh, well from what you say,if it is true, what chance have we got of that happening from mere mortals like us?

Bring back HenryVIII

[Gaseous]

Thanks to NLJs post and a few other snippets I can now piece together what I think happened here. In my opinion it goes something like this.

1)Risk assesment for Dr Rice's visit identifies sites and threats.

2)G-BDKD identified as a very minor threat. (My aircraft)

3)TRA planned as there is some percieved airborne threat. Lancs police to organise it.

4) Lancs Police Ops cock up the TRA dimensions missing off some sites visited and G-BDKD. Not too serious and probably too much trouble or too late to update the TRA. The only minor issue is G-BDKD which is not grounded by the TRA.

5) Easy fix is to send the boys round and put the frighteners on the owner to stop him flying.

Job done.

And it worked.

The only harm done is one pilot pi$$ed off and a few civil liberties trampled into the mud.

Lancashire Constabulary in the clear.

And no, it was not Lancs ASU I was concerned about. I know I was legally in the clear. I told them so.
It was the other veiled threat, trigger happy security services, however unlikely, that stopped me flying.

edited to remove my assumption that the security services would be American. See SASless's post below.

[NLJ]

Glad my previous post has helped. If you knew how many headless/ill-informed chickens there were rushing around the place over the past two days you would laugh your head off.
Still, it's over now, until the next time!

NLJ.

[SASless]

trigger happy Americans

How you reckon GAS?

The outer security was all British wasn't it? If you managed to get so lost as to pose a threat to the USSOS and be shot by a few handguns carried by her PSD team, then you would probably deserve shooting.

Until that bit of sniping I was on your side....now maybe we know why Plod paid you a visit.

[lup]

Oh no! not sasless again!
Leave him alone, if he owns his own helicopter, he is not the worlds expert on everything like you and all the military expressions you come up with won't mean a thing to him.

You were on his side up untill that point lol
What he believed would happen to him is not the point of his post.

[topendtorque]

Heliport

Thanks, of course I should have twigged to that, it did figure in news items way out in the colonies as well.

Constructive thread ESP NLJ’s good tips and gas’s frank admissions revealed the same old core problem a la Brazilian tube. Little seems to have been done Govt wise to change an out of control officialdom ‘what has no idea how to handle a gun what it has licence to carry.’

Not the two pros at the door as gas pointed out. The airspace organisers may need to take heed and usurp these probs somewhat by pulling a bit more airspace perhaps.
But not only in Blighty.

Reminds me of very sad event on bondi beach a few years ago, where three very fit thugs dressed in blue and with guns a’blazing demolished a poor defenceless but slightly unstable frenchman of obviously insignificant physical threat to them. He was wielding a knife, but the video clips easily portrayed that this was no pro knife fighter.

I mean why couldn’t the three big bullies have kicked sand in his face?

The same occurrence is seen all too often, shoot first and to kill instead of to render harmless while more resources or time can be had.

In the meantime congrats to gas, he has;
1. Polarized our fraternity, surely at least one reader will have the chance to whisper into a pink ear of one of jack’s senior helpers and,
2. Demonstrated good helicopter attitude in an emerg, think first, before acting.
I have always noticed that it is wise to consider the reaction of those close to you, ESP wife, disregard her gut reaction at your peril!

[headsethair]

NLJ :I always knew what the dimensions of the TRA were and never actually had a discussion with Wartion ATC on the matter. You must have been listening in on someone elses conversations!

Thanks for the posting and your honest assessment - but you definitely used the expression "altitude" twice mid-morning Friday. You may have also heard another aircraft querying this with Warton and confirming that the TRA was AGL.

But that's no crime. I only make the point because the TRA was badly and confusingly drawn - and this should not be the case when there appears to be a threat of armed response to anyone entering that airspace. You've got to admit that it's very wierd to have a TRA with a top that follows ground undulations.

If you had spotted an aircraft apparently inside the TRA, what proof could you offer that the "invader" was less than 3000ft AGL ? I have a feeling that a rad alt reading would not please a judge or a clever barrister. And who was it who decided to put a TRA under Class A airspace, which starts at 4500 on 1013mb ? In places there was less than a 700ft "gap" between the TRA and the Class A.

You have succintly outlined the cock-up factors which exist in the drawing-up of the TRAs and their interpretation. Some of what you write is funny - until you wonder if the same attitudes you describe pervade other areas of policing.

For what it's worth, I think Police ASUs are a fantastic resource being abused by bad management. For instance, you state that the TRA was the responsibility of a non-aviation area of Lancs Constabulary. Yet in other parts of the UK it's the ASU that draws-up the TRA. Why such variance in what should be a nationwide SOP ?

[Bronx]

Thanks for the background NLJ.
I wouldnt worry what headsethair says, you'll get accustomed to him.
He's still sore because someone said his ENG R44 busts the London helo routes clearances to get pixx.

B.

[ShyTorque]

"Edit. My wife has just been past the local church yard which is packed with numerous Police vehicles and 2 ambulances. A big sign proclaims 'Decontamination unit'.

WTF is going on???

No more visitors like Dr Rice, please Mr Straw."

A decontamination unit? Jack Straw had Rice in at home? That'll be it then.

[PANews]

Gaseous, in view of BDKD's illustrious past as a front line police aircraft perhaps it was perceived as a greater threat than it deserved, baggage and all that

[NLJ]

Thanks for that Bronx, now I know who it was who kept activating my TCAS whilst we were carrying out perimeter checks around Salmesbury!