Pilot Brits abroad: Why not come back to the UK?
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Why are you talking of spending another 10 grand and taking 6 months off work? Surely, you can do distance learning ATPL's, whilst instructing and then be ready to do the checkride etc when you get back to the UK...
Why are you talking of spending another 10 grand and taking 6 months off work? Surely, you can do distance learning ATPL's, whilst instructing and then be ready to do the checkride etc when you get back to the UK...
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I held a UK ATPL and also have Canadian, JAA, and FAA ATPLs. Having qualified for all them I have to say that I found the UK/JAA exams the least relevant to any flying I have done. The JAA exams aren't any more difficult than any others; it's just that there are more of them. Thinking back to the old UK CAA exams, I've still to discover what use mid-zone weight fuel flow is to me when flying any of the helicopters I've operated 
.
I used to fly in UK but wouldn't go back for many of the reasons already mentioned.
The weather's awful, housing is expensive, taxes are high, fuel is expensive, cars are expensive, the roads are crowded, the education and health systems are in decline. The money may be high for offshore pilots in places like Aberdeen, but the quality of life in many other countries is so much better.
I've operated in many countries on many continents and I can't say that I found the standards any better in UK. If you operate for a half-decent company, especially if you're a pilot on the oil patch then the standards to which you're required to operate are broadly similar almost anywhere in the world. Pilots are the same the world over - there are good, bad and ugly (OK even a lot of the good ones are ugly
). But, seriously, standards usually depend on whether the company you work for sets and demands good standards and on the personal professional standards of each individual. On any large operation look around the crewroom on a bad weather day and see how many of the pilots are brushing up on the flight manual, SOPs etc., and how many are surfing the web, writing to PPRuNe or reading the latest FHM 
I know many UK pilots working and living overseas who have no intention of ever returning to UK just because it's so expensive and the quality of life in so many other countries is much better these days. Despite my nationality, my UK and JAA licences I'd much rather work outside Europe and live in a country like France, Spain or Portugal, which have much kinder personal taxation laws than the UK and, especially in the case of France, a much better quality and standard of life. Just my view.
. I used to fly in UK but wouldn't go back for many of the reasons already mentioned.
The weather's awful, housing is expensive, taxes are high, fuel is expensive, cars are expensive, the roads are crowded, the education and health systems are in decline. The money may be high for offshore pilots in places like Aberdeen, but the quality of life in many other countries is so much better.
I've operated in many countries on many continents and I can't say that I found the standards any better in UK. If you operate for a half-decent company, especially if you're a pilot on the oil patch then the standards to which you're required to operate are broadly similar almost anywhere in the world. Pilots are the same the world over - there are good, bad and ugly (OK even a lot of the good ones are ugly
). But, seriously, standards usually depend on whether the company you work for sets and demands good standards and on the personal professional standards of each individual. On any large operation look around the crewroom on a bad weather day and see how many of the pilots are brushing up on the flight manual, SOPs etc., and how many are surfing the web, writing to PPRuNe or reading the latest FHM I know many UK pilots working and living overseas who have no intention of ever returning to UK just because it's so expensive and the quality of life in so many other countries is much better these days. Despite my nationality, my UK and JAA licences I'd much rather work outside Europe and live in a country like France, Spain or Portugal, which have much kinder personal taxation laws than the UK and, especially in the case of France, a much better quality and standard of life. Just my view.
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Ok, the first post on this topic was influenced by a bottle of Bushmills and two ‘so called’ friends, who crashed at my place last night, en-route to a new fire season.
If we take vino veritas at face value, I’d be a hypocrite to delete it now
I edited a couple of names and initials, as it was over the top to put a real identity to the some of the weasels hanging out in Gatwick. (Plus a friendly lawyerly type said they might sue me)
But I want to continue my rant…
I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but it won’t make sense to start a new one.
(Sorry Ivor)
As Paco said! A lot of the JAA syllabus would be in an engineering exam in most other places. And he knows a lot about the subject of exams!
What I’d like to know, maybe you can help me out autosync?
Is how does this notionally superior education, fit into the life of a working Pilot?
I hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but flying helos is not difficult. my friends and I could be called intellectually challenged perhaps. But a lot of us have been doing this job all our lives successfully. With nowhere near the depth of knowledge required by the current JAA syllabus.
Anywhere you go today.And I mean anywhere on the planet. Your going to have more oversight from the client and operator than is imaginable. Pre-contract obligations to abide with, and safety guy's around every corner. The day's of cowboying a job are long since gone with most operators.. But a constant within these ops is the no-one has ever questioned me on any obscure theory and if there was any relevance in the JAA syllabus. The safety guys would be all over it! Trying to expand their kingdom yet further...Kind of like the CAA I guess...
Ok, we have guys like Nick Lappos around, but anyone who thinks Nick is a standard issue pilot needs their head read! I’m talking about a the plain jane, standard issue pilot…
Take Fire fighting or oil patch as an example.
All you need for this kind of operation is a seasoned, practical, workaday helo driver.
Such as my ‘mates’ or me. Who have done this! year in year out, since we were quite young…Yes, there’ve been accidents, plenty of them in the big picture! But knowing the name of a local wind that runs off the Tibetan Plateau is not going to stop them.
I worked in that general region years ago, and never knew any local wind existed. And if it had a name, I couldn’t give a sh*t at the time…. What I did know, is that when I left the filthy shack that served as crew quarters in the pre-dawn, was that it was raining sideways and blowing like a b*tch…Words fail to convey, the total lack of interest I had, in what was driving the wind. All I knew was it was another lousy day, living out of plastic bags, to stop the little buggy critters from infesting everything. Going to the cookhouse to find nothing that resembled wonder bread! And convince myself that Luke-warm white soup that tasted fishy was a nourishing breakfast…
I had a (the) gyro go tits up in the Lama on this gig. And the funny thing is, when the wrench RR’d the gyro, the words ‘earth tied or transport wander’ never fell from his lips…What fell from his lips was …I think it’s F**ked buddy. There’s another one in the flyaway box but it’s probably F**ked too! No tag on it…Do yah really need it?
He was the Engineer version of my pilot buddies and me. Living with the day to dynamics of the helo world… Are we Intellectually challenged? Yeah! I guess…but you don’t need to be Albert E to fly helos. What you need is good old common sense, and it don’t hurt having a good wrench in the next hooch.
Start on big jobs with lots of BS floating around the mess. Learn the business the tried and true way...Osmosis...
If you have the smarts to genuinely remember the entire JAA syllabus, you’re probably wasted as an operational pilot, and should be doing something ‘better’ with your life. Something that guys like me can’t get into because in plain words, we’re just not that smart. ….Imagine a helicopter world, manned (womaned?) by intellectually superior beings….Who’s gonna take out the trash?..
Autosync
Don’t know where you got the idea I don’t like Europeans and Brits (Ouch!)
Like many folks, I’m prone to making sweeping generalizations. And definitely need to control it better. So any English folks that are offended, I apologize and mean it!
It’s just the minority of pompous assh*les that stick in my craw. And the same guys stick in your craw just as much. The worst CAA/JAA bashing I’ve heard ,is from the home-grown, who are victims of these d*cks on a daily basis…
What do you mean, “The CAA are not the JAA”?
Do you have a local JAA office where you are?
The CAA are the effective body at operational level, and haven’t figured out yet that they (UK CAA) are the only oufit that’s taking the JAA deal 100% serious.
Regarding the Aussies and whining!
Afraid I gotta disagree on this point as well. If you ever find yourself on a lousy remote gig somewhere, with everything cratering. It’s great to have a bunch of Aussies or Kiwi’s around to brighten the day. When they’re not ‘Pommie bashing’
Which is only for chuckles anyway. They are (again a sweeping generalization) about the most ‘Stand-up’ guys you’re going to find anywhere.
A national trait of these guys is a can do attitude, anytime, anywhere…Maybe I only know the good ones?
Enough of this frivolity?
170...
Phone Wind…great name by the way! …A well thought out reasoned response!
(How’d you do that?;-))
France is a cool place to live, but I’d look further into the tax position. You need a good tax guy and even then, it’s gonna hurt!
If we take vino veritas at face value, I’d be a hypocrite to delete it now
I edited a couple of names and initials, as it was over the top to put a real identity to the some of the weasels hanging out in Gatwick. (Plus a friendly lawyerly type said they might sue me)
But I want to continue my rant…
I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but it won’t make sense to start a new one.
(Sorry Ivor)
As Paco said! A lot of the JAA syllabus would be in an engineering exam in most other places. And he knows a lot about the subject of exams!
What I’d like to know, maybe you can help me out autosync?
Is how does this notionally superior education, fit into the life of a working Pilot?
I hate to burst anyone’s bubble, but flying helos is not difficult. my friends and I could be called intellectually challenged perhaps. But a lot of us have been doing this job all our lives successfully. With nowhere near the depth of knowledge required by the current JAA syllabus.
Anywhere you go today.And I mean anywhere on the planet. Your going to have more oversight from the client and operator than is imaginable. Pre-contract obligations to abide with, and safety guy's around every corner. The day's of cowboying a job are long since gone with most operators.. But a constant within these ops is the no-one has ever questioned me on any obscure theory and if there was any relevance in the JAA syllabus. The safety guys would be all over it! Trying to expand their kingdom yet further...Kind of like the CAA I guess...
Ok, we have guys like Nick Lappos around, but anyone who thinks Nick is a standard issue pilot needs their head read! I’m talking about a the plain jane, standard issue pilot…
Take Fire fighting or oil patch as an example.
All you need for this kind of operation is a seasoned, practical, workaday helo driver.
Such as my ‘mates’ or me. Who have done this! year in year out, since we were quite young…Yes, there’ve been accidents, plenty of them in the big picture! But knowing the name of a local wind that runs off the Tibetan Plateau is not going to stop them.
I worked in that general region years ago, and never knew any local wind existed. And if it had a name, I couldn’t give a sh*t at the time…. What I did know, is that when I left the filthy shack that served as crew quarters in the pre-dawn, was that it was raining sideways and blowing like a b*tch…Words fail to convey, the total lack of interest I had, in what was driving the wind. All I knew was it was another lousy day, living out of plastic bags, to stop the little buggy critters from infesting everything. Going to the cookhouse to find nothing that resembled wonder bread! And convince myself that Luke-warm white soup that tasted fishy was a nourishing breakfast…
I had a (the) gyro go tits up in the Lama on this gig. And the funny thing is, when the wrench RR’d the gyro, the words ‘earth tied or transport wander’ never fell from his lips…What fell from his lips was …I think it’s F**ked buddy. There’s another one in the flyaway box but it’s probably F**ked too! No tag on it…Do yah really need it?
He was the Engineer version of my pilot buddies and me. Living with the day to dynamics of the helo world… Are we Intellectually challenged? Yeah! I guess…but you don’t need to be Albert E to fly helos. What you need is good old common sense, and it don’t hurt having a good wrench in the next hooch.
Start on big jobs with lots of BS floating around the mess. Learn the business the tried and true way...Osmosis...
If you have the smarts to genuinely remember the entire JAA syllabus, you’re probably wasted as an operational pilot, and should be doing something ‘better’ with your life. Something that guys like me can’t get into because in plain words, we’re just not that smart. ….Imagine a helicopter world, manned (womaned?) by intellectually superior beings….Who’s gonna take out the trash?..
Autosync
Don’t know where you got the idea I don’t like Europeans and Brits (Ouch!)
Like many folks, I’m prone to making sweeping generalizations. And definitely need to control it better. So any English folks that are offended, I apologize and mean it!
It’s just the minority of pompous assh*les that stick in my craw. And the same guys stick in your craw just as much. The worst CAA/JAA bashing I’ve heard ,is from the home-grown, who are victims of these d*cks on a daily basis…
What do you mean, “The CAA are not the JAA”?
Do you have a local JAA office where you are?
The CAA are the effective body at operational level, and haven’t figured out yet that they (UK CAA) are the only oufit that’s taking the JAA deal 100% serious.
Regarding the Aussies and whining!
Afraid I gotta disagree on this point as well. If you ever find yourself on a lousy remote gig somewhere, with everything cratering. It’s great to have a bunch of Aussies or Kiwi’s around to brighten the day. When they’re not ‘Pommie bashing’
Which is only for chuckles anyway. They are (again a sweeping generalization) about the most ‘Stand-up’ guys you’re going to find anywhere.
A national trait of these guys is a can do attitude, anytime, anywhere…Maybe I only know the good ones?
Enough of this frivolity?
170...
Phone Wind…great name by the way! …A well thought out reasoned response!
(How’d you do that?;-))
France is a cool place to live, but I’d look further into the tax position. You need a good tax guy and even then, it’s gonna hurt!
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Hi 170'
Lived in France for many years and never had to pay a cent in income tax. If you're resident and touring, once you've established your residency and that you don't work in France I found it fairly straightforward (though a bit bureaucratic and time-consuming - which is why I paid some accountant some of the money I saved to make sure I got it right first time).
Living in USA or Canada is also awful from a tax point of view if you're touring and I think the Aussies don't get much in the way of breaks either. Better, if you can to reside in Africa or a country in Central or South America. Panama has great tax rules and Chile is a nice place to live, with sensible tax laws if you're touring. Many of my friends now reside in Thailand or the Philippines and say their quality of life is good (not sure how good hospitals are if you fall seriously ill in these places, however). There are still several African countries which have a reasonable quality of life and are fairly stable. Maybe someone needs to start a new thread on what's the best place to live if you're a touring pilot and willing to relocate
Lived in France for many years and never had to pay a cent in income tax. If you're resident and touring, once you've established your residency and that you don't work in France I found it fairly straightforward (though a bit bureaucratic and time-consuming - which is why I paid some accountant some of the money I saved to make sure I got it right first time).
Living in USA or Canada is also awful from a tax point of view if you're touring and I think the Aussies don't get much in the way of breaks either. Better, if you can to reside in Africa or a country in Central or South America. Panama has great tax rules and Chile is a nice place to live, with sensible tax laws if you're touring. Many of my friends now reside in Thailand or the Philippines and say their quality of life is good (not sure how good hospitals are if you fall seriously ill in these places, however). There are still several African countries which have a reasonable quality of life and are fairly stable. Maybe someone needs to start a new thread on what's the best place to live if you're a touring pilot and willing to relocate
Good news for those heading to the USA to do their training....if the new immigration law passes....all you have to do is stay here and find a job. Prove you pay US taxes, learn to speak "English", and you too can become a US citizen after six years of being a formerly "illegal" immigrant.
Funny how one can go from being a "felon" to being a legal illegal overnight by a stroke of the pen.
Funny how one can go from being a "felon" to being a legal illegal overnight by a stroke of the pen.
Do you guys honestly think that by having these regulations you are going to stop overseas pilots working in the UK? I work with 16 pilots, all of which have plenty of ME time and only need to renew there IFR ratings, and they are busy learning English...
Sorry to burst your bubble on the salary issue too. I think if you look at the cost of living in other countries vs salary (Offshore flying) the North Sea dosn't look that good anymore.
I believe the Logging guys in Canada are probably earning the most per month anywhere.
The helicopter industry is a global one, and if you venture outside your comfort zone and head overseas, you will find this out.
My previous job off the coast of Africa involved working with South African, Swiss, Austrian, and US pilots, and 2 Czech Engineers! The licence they held didn't make any difference to they piloting skills, rather what experience they had.
Sorry to burst your bubble on the salary issue too. I think if you look at the cost of living in other countries vs salary (Offshore flying) the North Sea dosn't look that good anymore.
I believe the Logging guys in Canada are probably earning the most per month anywhere.
The helicopter industry is a global one, and if you venture outside your comfort zone and head overseas, you will find this out.
My previous job off the coast of Africa involved working with South African, Swiss, Austrian, and US pilots, and 2 Czech Engineers! The licence they held didn't make any difference to they piloting skills, rather what experience they had.
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Ya see, the funny thing is... All of you guys who don't have JAA licenses have no problem constantly knocking the JAA system and take every opportunity you can to knock JAR pilots.
However when a JAA pilot points out a flaw in another system all the "Snobby Pomme... Superiority complex... pompous English... blah blah blah" crap starts to pour out from all quarters.
That says a lot in its self.
170' I agree wit you on one point, nearly every man and his dog can fly a helicopter, its not the most difficult thing in the world to manipulate a few levers and turn some dials, there is no great mystery in it, in the same way there is no great mystery in a Doctor writing prescriptions or a solicitor writing threatening letters.
But it doesn't stop them from having to go through years of college learning all aspects of their business no matter how irrelevant it is to the subject that they choose to specialise in and getting paid well to do it.
So if that’s the case, how can we justify getting a paycheck if every one on the street is able to do it?
And Gatwick is not the the Headquarters of the JAA and all countries that have signed up to JAR take it very seriously... And I seem to come across whinging Aussies all the time and its becoming painful to listen to....
However when a JAA pilot points out a flaw in another system all the "Snobby Pomme... Superiority complex... pompous English... blah blah blah" crap starts to pour out from all quarters.
That says a lot in its self.
170' I agree wit you on one point, nearly every man and his dog can fly a helicopter, its not the most difficult thing in the world to manipulate a few levers and turn some dials, there is no great mystery in it, in the same way there is no great mystery in a Doctor writing prescriptions or a solicitor writing threatening letters.
But it doesn't stop them from having to go through years of college learning all aspects of their business no matter how irrelevant it is to the subject that they choose to specialise in and getting paid well to do it.
So if that’s the case, how can we justify getting a paycheck if every one on the street is able to do it?
And Gatwick is not the the Headquarters of the JAA and all countries that have signed up to JAR take it very seriously... And I seem to come across whinging Aussies all the time and its becoming painful to listen to....
[QUOYa see, the funny thing is... All of you guys who don't have JAA licenses have no problem constantly knocking the JAA system and take every opportunity you can to knock JAR pilots.TE][/QUOTE]
The system is being knocked...not the pilots. Well except maybe the mindset of those that for some completely illogical reason consider the JAA system the way to go. Especially in light of the change to EASA coming up. Now that does beg some explanation. What are you going to say when EASA bins the excesses of JAA and returns to a reasonable level of testing and such? You reckon the Crats will amend their testing and such, cut exam rates, fire some drones and Mandarins?
You plainly miss the point...why spend piles of money learning trivia that does not apply to the job at hand and charge through the ass for the exams to test your ability for Rote Memory (the lowest level of learning by the way).
The system is being knocked...not the pilots. Well except maybe the mindset of those that for some completely illogical reason consider the JAA system the way to go. Especially in light of the change to EASA coming up. Now that does beg some explanation. What are you going to say when EASA bins the excesses of JAA and returns to a reasonable level of testing and such? You reckon the Crats will amend their testing and such, cut exam rates, fire some drones and Mandarins?
You plainly miss the point...why spend piles of money learning trivia that does not apply to the job at hand and charge through the ass for the exams to test your ability for Rote Memory (the lowest level of learning by the way).
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Aren't the FAA tests just an A, B, C Question bank?
Learned by Rote
JAR is an A, B, C, D and there are a lot more of them, if you throw enough mud at the wall surely some will stick.
So that arguement doesn't really hold water.
But I am not here to knock the FAA system or even say that I am a better pilot, cause I probably amn't, and I have both FAA and JAA ATPLs
But you are missing my point, we all know that flying is not that difficult.
It sounds to me that some people here would be happy to see a test similar to getting a drivers licence. We don't have to know how the engine works to drive a car, we don't even have to know the breaking distance on a wet day at a given speed, so does that make it irrelevant?
Maybe it does, because it doesn't rain were I am and their is always a mechanic nearby so why should I have to worry about that?
How secure in your job would it make you feel, knowing that everybody can do and is doing what you are doing?
Would you still have the same passion for it?
Learned by Rote
JAR is an A, B, C, D and there are a lot more of them, if you throw enough mud at the wall surely some will stick.
So that arguement doesn't really hold water.
But I am not here to knock the FAA system or even say that I am a better pilot, cause I probably amn't, and I have both FAA and JAA ATPLs
But you are missing my point, we all know that flying is not that difficult.
It sounds to me that some people here would be happy to see a test similar to getting a drivers licence. We don't have to know how the engine works to drive a car, we don't even have to know the breaking distance on a wet day at a given speed, so does that make it irrelevant?
Maybe it does, because it doesn't rain were I am and their is always a mechanic nearby so why should I have to worry about that?
How secure in your job would it make you feel, knowing that everybody can do and is doing what you are doing?
Would you still have the same passion for it?
Is this an English thing? No ones knocking JAA pilots, I work with 16! Your system is strange, and it is not just the Aussies saying this.
Flaws in other systems? The Authorities in most countries have there moments, but they are all generally similar. I can work in the UK if I choose, but so far there has been more interesting work elsewhere.
autosync, you should head down to Oz and do a bit of flying. Better weather, great lifestyle, and a fair bit of work around if you have some experience. Medical, 1 Airlaw exam, and a flight test and you have a full CPL... you may not like the beer though
Flaws in other systems? The Authorities in most countries have there moments, but they are all generally similar. I can work in the UK if I choose, but so far there has been more interesting work elsewhere.
autosync, you should head down to Oz and do a bit of flying. Better weather, great lifestyle, and a fair bit of work around if you have some experience. Medical, 1 Airlaw exam, and a flight test and you have a full CPL... you may not like the beer though
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Thanks BigMike, but I am quite enjoying flying in Europe, its not so bad once you have jumped through the hoops.
36 degrees in melbourne the other day, thats not good weather to me, and I am no fan of the kangaroo piss you call beer either.
36 degrees in melbourne the other day, thats not good weather to me, and I am no fan of the kangaroo piss you call beer either.
I dont think that is what people are saying at all. Just that professional quailifications be recognised by both sides. Fine, if JAA were to insist on an exam on the differences between the JAA licence and others, I just cant see the point or sense in re-doing something that you have already sat and passed.
"How secure in your job would it make you feel, knowing that everybody can do and is doing what you are doing?
Would you still have the same passion for it?"
Plenty of helicopter pilots around. The jobs go to those who have the experience, and to those who have made the effort to further themselves.
I still have a passion for what I do, the number of other pilots flying has no bearing on that.
"How secure in your job would it make you feel, knowing that everybody can do and is doing what you are doing?
Would you still have the same passion for it?"
Plenty of helicopter pilots around. The jobs go to those who have the experience, and to those who have made the effort to further themselves.
I still have a passion for what I do, the number of other pilots flying has no bearing on that.
Yep, Oz beer is pretty ordinary. Once you have had Czech beer everything else is a bit second best.
And BTW Im not an Aussie, but I did work there for quite a while.
And BTW Im not an Aussie, but I did work there for quite a while.
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Perhaps it's my age, but all this argy bargy about licencing is confusing me. Methinks it all comes down to cost, very few people wish to pay the European prices and I can understand that. However, standards have been set and no amount of whinging is going to change them. You want, or perhaps need the JAA licence then you have to buckle down like tens of thousands of other people and suffer the costs, but I'm afraid the theory will not go away.
If an easier and cheaper life is more appealing then go elsewhere.
I know as do many of you out there that the knowledge aquired by the JAA pilot is superior to many, but in 5 years, maybe less, this knowledge will be frittered away and only the "need to know" will be retained. On the other hand, the lesser pilot (licence that is) will over the same period aquire the same "need to know" and have less to forget, and both will be equal aviators.
I have found my UK ATPL/H and latterly JAA licences have been very useful, while friends with "lesser" licences have suffered. Every country I have worked in around the world has on receiving my UK licence issued me with a nice shiny full national licence, where as my friends had to do with short term validations. Once or twice I had to do the Air Law exam, and once in Europe an Instrument rating.
It all boils down to pain at the beginning and then the satisfaction of knowing your licence will be accepted almost everywhere. The unnecessary garbage in your brain does not do you any harm and it might come in useful if you decide to go fixed wing!
My own knowledge base from my early days is long gone only to be replaced by that which is useful today.
It's your choice, but make the right one as you'll have to live with it for the rest of your life, unless you win the lottery
If an easier and cheaper life is more appealing then go elsewhere.
I know as do many of you out there that the knowledge aquired by the JAA pilot is superior to many, but in 5 years, maybe less, this knowledge will be frittered away and only the "need to know" will be retained. On the other hand, the lesser pilot (licence that is) will over the same period aquire the same "need to know" and have less to forget, and both will be equal aviators.
I have found my UK ATPL/H and latterly JAA licences have been very useful, while friends with "lesser" licences have suffered. Every country I have worked in around the world has on receiving my UK licence issued me with a nice shiny full national licence, where as my friends had to do with short term validations. Once or twice I had to do the Air Law exam, and once in Europe an Instrument rating.
It all boils down to pain at the beginning and then the satisfaction of knowing your licence will be accepted almost everywhere. The unnecessary garbage in your brain does not do you any harm and it might come in useful if you decide to go fixed wing!
My own knowledge base from my early days is long gone only to be replaced by that which is useful today.
It's your choice, but make the right one as you'll have to live with it for the rest of your life, unless you win the lottery
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Originally Posted by SASless
Good news for those heading to the USA to do their training....if the new immigration law passes....all you have to do is stay here and find a job. Prove you pay US taxes, learn to speak "English", and you too can become a US citizen after six years of being a formerly "illegal" immigrant.
Funny how one can go from being a "felon" to being a legal illegal overnight by a stroke of the pen.
Funny how one can go from being a "felon" to being a legal illegal overnight by a stroke of the pen.
And about the JAA and exams. I guess the people that haven't jumped through the hoops to get theyr licenses yet might seem a little whining.
But I wonder how many of the JAA pilots on this forum, has sat the 650 hours of ground, and taken 14 exams in 2 weeks.
Most JAA pilots today got theyr ICAO license converted when the countrie joined JAA.. Or am I mistaken here?
I whine about the conversion part, but not only because its alot of work. Mostly because I know I can't afford it.
I will have no flying in 6 months, depending if I take ATPL distance or in classroom. I will have no income, have to pay for living, the course, fees etc.
And finally , some say I need between 5-15 hours in the R-22 to get my JAA CPL-checkride. This is going to cost me around 13.000$ total.
And I will now have a JAA CPL, and what do most of the companies in Europe require? Yes, the IR rating.. But what the hell, after spending 13.000$, I might as well throw in only 23.000$ more since I already have the FAA IR.
I think the whole conversion part is to expensive, and time demanding if you dont have a ICAO ATPL. I might be one of the whiners some of you are refering to, but I dont have endless pockest, and I am not best friend with the bank manager.
But what the h... I have reach my life dream witch was to fly helicopters, I just hope I can find a way to stay in the US.
Autosync,
Our friend and colleague Mortennb raises a very valid point. He is confronted with dire prospects of being able to self fund his flying training as a result of the length of time necessary to complete the ground school, the expense of the medical and exams, and the expense of adding an IR rating. I am sure he is one of the many highly motivated and dedicated young folks striving to become a professional helicopter pilot.
How do you respond to those that are not independently wealthy or who do not have rich uncles or in some cases Sugar Daddy's with the means and willingness to cough up the funds for their training?
How many young folks are prevented from seeking a career in civilain aviation due to the un-needed expense the JAR system requires? When will the system hit critical mass and the commerical aviation industry founder? why should commerical aviation be reserved for the wealthy and high born amongst us and not for every mother's son (or daughter)?
Our friend and colleague Mortennb raises a very valid point. He is confronted with dire prospects of being able to self fund his flying training as a result of the length of time necessary to complete the ground school, the expense of the medical and exams, and the expense of adding an IR rating. I am sure he is one of the many highly motivated and dedicated young folks striving to become a professional helicopter pilot.
How do you respond to those that are not independently wealthy or who do not have rich uncles or in some cases Sugar Daddy's with the means and willingness to cough up the funds for their training?
How many young folks are prevented from seeking a career in civilain aviation due to the un-needed expense the JAR system requires? When will the system hit critical mass and the commerical aviation industry founder? why should commerical aviation be reserved for the wealthy and high born amongst us and not for every mother's son (or daughter)?
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maths lesson
average salary in the USA is $37,000
average cost to train as a USA helicopter pilot/instructor (assume 200 hours total) = $50,000
average salary in the UK is £22,000
average cost to train as a UK helicopter pilot/instructor (assume 280 hours total) = £50,000
so... in the USA it costs 1.3 times the average salary, and in the UK it costs 2.2 times the average salary
(salary sources: http://ask.yahoo.com/20040518.html and http://business.guardian.co.uk/story...542254,00.html)
average cost to train as a USA helicopter pilot/instructor (assume 200 hours total) = $50,000
average salary in the UK is £22,000
average cost to train as a UK helicopter pilot/instructor (assume 280 hours total) = £50,000
so... in the USA it costs 1.3 times the average salary, and in the UK it costs 2.2 times the average salary
(salary sources: http://ask.yahoo.com/20040518.html and http://business.guardian.co.uk/story...542254,00.html)