Helicopter crash in Mexico City
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Helicopter crash in Mexico City
I just saw one picture, i think it was an 109, with Jorge Valdano on board, ex Real Madrid directive...
Blender if you have more details...???
Blender if you have more details...???
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See the pictures at: http://www.marca.es/
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Yes, it was an Agusta Power, I had flown this aircraft a couple of months back its was almost brand new, same pad where the last helicopter in Mexico City crashed
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107295
Nobody is dead yet, overflew the crash a couple of times this morning they were lucky to find a clear spot.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107295
Nobody is dead yet, overflew the crash a couple of times this morning they were lucky to find a clear spot.
Last edited by BlenderPilot; 26th Mar 2006 at 15:39.
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Mexico crash
Amazing pictures - thanks for posting. Text follows from Reuters:
188 :BC-MEXICO-CRASH (PICTURE) Soccer legend Valdano hurt in Mexico chopper crash
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Reuters) - Argentine soccer great Jorge Valdano was injured along with seven others in a helicopter crash in Mexico City on Saturday, police said.
The helicopter crashed in a street in the capital's business district, but police said there were no casualties.
All six passengers, along with the pilot and co-pilot, were taken to hospital.
"Among the passengers was Argentine Jorge Valdano, the former professional soccer player," said Gabriel Regino, deputy public security chief for Mexico City, at the scene.
"They are stable, conscious, with injuries -- possibly one of them seriously hurt, but it's not Valdano," he added.
The cause of the accident was not clear.
Valdano, 50, for many a soccer legend, was part of the Argentine team that won the 1986 World Cup in Mexico. He later went on to coach Real Madrid and eventually became the club's sporting director in 2000. He resigned last year.
188 :BC-MEXICO-CRASH (PICTURE) Soccer legend Valdano hurt in Mexico chopper crash
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Reuters) - Argentine soccer great Jorge Valdano was injured along with seven others in a helicopter crash in Mexico City on Saturday, police said.
The helicopter crashed in a street in the capital's business district, but police said there were no casualties.
All six passengers, along with the pilot and co-pilot, were taken to hospital.
"Among the passengers was Argentine Jorge Valdano, the former professional soccer player," said Gabriel Regino, deputy public security chief for Mexico City, at the scene.
"They are stable, conscious, with injuries -- possibly one of them seriously hurt, but it's not Valdano," he added.
The cause of the accident was not clear.
Valdano, 50, for many a soccer legend, was part of the Argentine team that won the 1986 World Cup in Mexico. He later went on to coach Real Madrid and eventually became the club's sporting director in 2000. He resigned last year.
MEXICO-CRASH (PICTURE) Soccer legend Valdano hurt in Mexico chopper crash
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Reuters) - Argentine soccer great Jorge Valdano was injured along with seven others in a helicopter crash in Mexico City on Saturday, police said.
The helicopter crashed in a street in the capital's business district, but police said there were no casualties.
All six passengers, along with the pilot and co-pilot, were taken to hospital.
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Reuters) - Argentine soccer great Jorge Valdano was injured along with seven others in a helicopter crash in Mexico City on Saturday, police said.
The helicopter crashed in a street in the capital's business district, but police said there were no casualties.
All six passengers, along with the pilot and co-pilot, were taken to hospital.
What year is this...1956? [Checks watch] Nope, still 2006. Here we are, more than fifty years after helicopters started getting into general (read: non-military) use, and pilots are STILL trying to fill up all the goddam seats and go flying at high DA's. Have we learned nothing in these intervening years? Are we pilots really that continually, perpetually stupid? Evidently so.
Look, it doesn't take an Einstein to fly a helicopter. I, for one, am not the smartest cookie in the jar. But I know how to read a performance chart. And I know the meaning of the word "no" and how to use it.
Yes, I'm jumping to a conclusion, mainly because the last helicopter that crashed at that VERY SAME SPOT was also a helicopter with all seats filled. A + B = C...as in "C"rash. The definition of insanity is humorously described as "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." With that in mind, some helicopter pilots must be certifiably insane. And there were TWO insane dummies on that helicopter. I can easily imagine the copilot keying the intercom and saying to the PIC, "Kinda heavy, mi capitan?" And the PIC answering, "Feh. No sweat, this is an A109 POWER! She can do it."
I know! Let's calculate the DA! Let's find out how much fuel they had on board. Let's see the performance charts for the Power.
DISCLAIMER: If it turns out that there was a mechanical problem like an engine failure, then I recount all of the above and will make another post ranting about how insane it is to operate single-engine off elevated heliports at high DA's. Thank you.
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PF1
Having 8 seats busy doesn´t mean they were too heavy, I routinely take off from pads around here with 8 seats busy, but with fuel only for the 15 minute hop to Toluca.
Also the the biggest problem here it that this particular pad is a the same level as the surounding buildings and it requires at least a flat departure, other pads where I depart heavy always have the last minute option of diving to gain airspeed in case the wind changes or something goes wrong, those other pads like the one I used today are on top of 30 story buildings.
Having 8 seats busy doesn´t mean they were too heavy, I routinely take off from pads around here with 8 seats busy, but with fuel only for the 15 minute hop to Toluca.
Also the the biggest problem here it that this particular pad is a the same level as the surounding buildings and it requires at least a flat departure, other pads where I depart heavy always have the last minute option of diving to gain airspeed in case the wind changes or something goes wrong, those other pads like the one I used today are on top of 30 story buildings.
Last edited by BlenderPilot; 26th Mar 2006 at 15:38.
Why is it always the brand new pretty nice smelling smooth flying machines....and never the old hangar queens?
Argentine ex-soccer star injured in helicopter crash
www.chinaview.cn 2006-03-26 10:14:26
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Xinhua) -- Former Argentine soccer star Jorge Valdano and seven other people were injured Saturday as a helicopter they were riding in crashed in Mexico City, Mexican civil aviation officials said.
The eight were taken to the ABC Hospital immediately. None of them were in life-threatening situation, according to the doctors.
The private chopper was carrying the passengers from Mexico city to the airport in Toluca, 55 km west of the capital. It went down in the Lomas de Chapultepec district shortly after taking off, damaging a parked car.
The cause of the accident has yet to be determined, but officials said overweight from passengers and fuel might be responsible for the accident. The pilot steered the helicopter into trees to avoid hitting the ground directly at full speed, they added.
Valdano, 50, played with Diego Maradona on the Argentine soccer team that won the World Cup in Mexico city in 1986. Enditem
Editor: Zhu Jin
Argentine ex-soccer star injured in helicopter crash
www.chinaview.cn 2006-03-26 10:14:26
MEXICO CITY, March 25 (Xinhua) -- Former Argentine soccer star Jorge Valdano and seven other people were injured Saturday as a helicopter they were riding in crashed in Mexico City, Mexican civil aviation officials said.
The eight were taken to the ABC Hospital immediately. None of them were in life-threatening situation, according to the doctors.
The private chopper was carrying the passengers from Mexico city to the airport in Toluca, 55 km west of the capital. It went down in the Lomas de Chapultepec district shortly after taking off, damaging a parked car.
The cause of the accident has yet to be determined, but officials said overweight from passengers and fuel might be responsible for the accident. The pilot steered the helicopter into trees to avoid hitting the ground directly at full speed, they added.
Valdano, 50, played with Diego Maradona on the Argentine soccer team that won the World Cup in Mexico city in 1986. Enditem
Editor: Zhu Jin
Last edited by SASless; 26th Mar 2006 at 03:50.
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Blender:
Pilot & Copilot, they are father & son??? Same first & last name...
Take a look at:
http://www.milenio.com/mexico/milenio/nota.asp?id=63677
Pilot & Copilot, they are father & son??? Same first & last name...
Take a look at:
http://www.milenio.com/mexico/milenio/nota.asp?id=63677
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VEMD,
Yes the crew was son and the father, the son was the hired pilot for the helicopter, the father just wanted to along for the ride with his son on that day. I'm really sorry this happened to them, the son was a really good pilot, although young he had flown captain since he was barely 20 in Bell 430's, A109's and AS350's.
Yes the crew was son and the father, the son was the hired pilot for the helicopter, the father just wanted to along for the ride with his son on that day. I'm really sorry this happened to them, the son was a really good pilot, although young he had flown captain since he was barely 20 in Bell 430's, A109's and AS350's.
BlenderPilot:
I think there is now evidence that the son was in fact *not* a "really good pilot."
Why is this? Why do we typically say such improbably complimentary things of post-accident pilots...as if this accident was some Act Of God or other unpredictable, random, serendipitous event? Let's face it, if he truly was a "really good pilot" then perhaps he...oh, I don't know...WOULD NOT HAVE CRASHED?
The pilot probably gave the appearance of being a "really good pilot." He probably had pretty good stick-skills and a fair knowledge of his craft...if not this particular aircraft. But being a "really good pilot" involves more than just playing the role, as if in a school play.
I feel badly that the young man had to crash his shiny, new Power. Thankfully, nobody died this time. Meaning, they got lucky. Blender, I understand your feelings of sympathy or Oscar. But don't let them cloud your objective judgement. If you or I crash due to us doing something stupid, then just let people say about us, "Wow, what a dumbass. I thought he was a better pilot than that. Well whaddya know."
Wait - I'm pretty sure there are those who say that about me now, and I haven't even crashed one yet.
Yes the crew was son and the father, the son was the hired pilot for the helicopter, the father just wanted to along for the ride with his son on that day. I'm really sorry this happened to them, the son was a really good pilot, although young he had flown captain since he was barely 20 in Bell 430's, A109's and AS350's.
Why is this? Why do we typically say such improbably complimentary things of post-accident pilots...as if this accident was some Act Of God or other unpredictable, random, serendipitous event? Let's face it, if he truly was a "really good pilot" then perhaps he...oh, I don't know...WOULD NOT HAVE CRASHED?
The pilot probably gave the appearance of being a "really good pilot." He probably had pretty good stick-skills and a fair knowledge of his craft...if not this particular aircraft. But being a "really good pilot" involves more than just playing the role, as if in a school play.
I feel badly that the young man had to crash his shiny, new Power. Thankfully, nobody died this time. Meaning, they got lucky. Blender, I understand your feelings of sympathy or Oscar. But don't let them cloud your objective judgement. If you or I crash due to us doing something stupid, then just let people say about us, "Wow, what a dumbass. I thought he was a better pilot than that. Well whaddya know."
Wait - I'm pretty sure there are those who say that about me now, and I haven't even crashed one yet.
Last edited by PPRUNE FAN#1; 29th Mar 2006 at 02:40.
PPRUNE #1 Fan....interesting take!!!
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Looking at the position of the white dumpster truck just inches from the wreckage I wondered if the front seat 109 occupants had a 2nd lucky escape, seconds from the first, from a road accident?
Or was the dumster illegially parked on the corner?
Creaser
Or was the dumster illegially parked on the corner?
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From the pictures, it looks like a tough one for the crash investigators - there was a small spot about 50 ft away without someone standing on it! There even looks to be a traffic plod writing the wreckage a ticket in one of the photos!
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Are there not quite many 109s that has ended up like that one? My first reaction was actually "Oh, another 109 crash", then the second thought was "High DA, high TOW". Well, I hope we find out and everybody survives.
/2beers
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On the funny side, the battery popped out of the aircraft and the local police gave a public statement saying they had found the aircraft's black box and they were turning it in to the DGAC so that they could determine the cause.
On the funny side, the battery popped out of the aircraft and the local police gave a public statement saying they had found the aircraft's black box and they were turning it in to the DGAC so that they could determine the cause.
On another note, I just heard that the city has authorized the funding to paint a big bullseye on the street below that rooftop heliport.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/03/27/045n1cap.php
English translate: 2 hours of fuel -> overweight
Regards.
Aser
Conclusión de autoridades de Aeronáutica Civil, tras analizar la bitácora de vuelo
Sobrepeso, causa del desplome del helicóptero en Lomas de Chapultepec
Solecito Determinan que el piloto cometió errores, como cargar combustible en exceso
GABRIEL LEON ZARAGOZA
Foto
Labores de los bomberos para evitar que se incendiara el helicóptero que se desplomó el sábado en Lomas de Chapultepec Foto José Carlo González
Autoridades de la Dirección General de Aeronáutica Civil de la Secretaría de Comunicaciones y Transportes (SCT) confirmaron que el sobrepeso provocó el accidente del helicóptero que el sábado por la mañana se desplomó en la colonia Bosques de las Lomas. La unidad tenía exceso de equipaje y en la cantidad de combustible en el tanque.
Con base en la bitácora de vuelo de la aeronave y en un análisis preliminar, las autoridades determinaron que el accidente se debió a un error del piloto Oscar Arredondo Pérez, puesto que en el momento del despegue la unidad tenía en el tanque combustible suficiente para dos horas de vuelo, lo cual "es un exceso", si se considera que "el piloto nunca estableció su ruta de vuelo" y, sobre todo, por la altura de la ciudad de México.
Sin embargo, será hoy cuando la caja negra y la bitácora de vuelo (que se encuentra intacta y sólo presenta humedad por combustible) ingresarán al Departamento de Investigaciones de la DGAC.
Las autoridades revelaron que otro elemento que contribuyó al desplome del helicóptero fue que el piloto "se salió de gráficas"; esto es, que nunca estableció una relación de vuelo con base en la cantidad de pasajeros y su peso, la cantidad de gasolina que tenía la aeronave y el equipaje que portaban los viajeros.
Aclararon que el sobrepeso de la nave y la altura de la ciudad de México provocaron que el helicóptero perdiera altura luego de haber avanzado 250 metros.
"Por como se presentó el accidente, se puede determinar que hubo omisión en la revisión del manual de vuelo para entrar en gráficas. Este procedimiento es básico, sobre todo porque cuando se trasporta a personas u objetos se tienen que considerar los cambios que presentan las unidades en cuanto al peso que llevan y la altura en la que se encuentra el helipuerto", precisaron.
Agregaron que "no es la primera vez que pilotos, incluso experimentados, como el que tuvo el accidente, se confían en ese helipuerto. Hace menos de dos años un helicóptero Bell 206 se desplomó en el mismo sitio cuando intentaba emprender el vuelo".
Con base en la bitácora, el helicóptero Augusta A 109, matrícula XA-UEN, salió del hangar de la empresa Helivan tripulado sólo con el piloto, a las 8 de la mañana, con destino al helipuerto Miditel.
Una vez que aterrizó en la pista ubicada en Montes Urales, siete pasajeros abordaron la nave, propiedad de la empresa Vz Fligths.
La aeronave es de modelo reciente, con apenas 163 horas de vuelo; sólo se le había realizado el servicio de mantenimiento preventivo de las primeras 100 horas de vuelo, lo cual implica cambio de filtros y lavado de inyectores, similar a las revisiones de los automotores.
Técnicos consultados refirieron que los fabricantes de los Augusta recomiendan revisiones de taller cada 100 horas de vuelo, aunque las unidades pueden durar hasta mil horas de vuelo sin revisión.
Según la carta de vuelo, el piloto accidentado cuenta con amplia experiencia. Antes de trabajar en Vz Fligths lo hizo para Commander Mexicana.
Las autoridades consultadas dijeron que otra línea que se debe investigar se refiere a las presiones laborales a las que se sabe son sometidos los pilotos de la empresa a la cual pertenece la unidad accidentada. "Hasta las autoridades sabemos que la esposa del dueño de Vz Fligths -cuyo nombre no precisaron- presiona a los pilotos para realizar viajes que se salen de lo establecido en los manuales de vuelo. Ellos tienen que obedecer por temor a peder su empleo", afirmaron.
Sobrepeso, causa del desplome del helicóptero en Lomas de Chapultepec
Solecito Determinan que el piloto cometió errores, como cargar combustible en exceso
GABRIEL LEON ZARAGOZA
Foto
Labores de los bomberos para evitar que se incendiara el helicóptero que se desplomó el sábado en Lomas de Chapultepec Foto José Carlo González
Autoridades de la Dirección General de Aeronáutica Civil de la Secretaría de Comunicaciones y Transportes (SCT) confirmaron que el sobrepeso provocó el accidente del helicóptero que el sábado por la mañana se desplomó en la colonia Bosques de las Lomas. La unidad tenía exceso de equipaje y en la cantidad de combustible en el tanque.
Con base en la bitácora de vuelo de la aeronave y en un análisis preliminar, las autoridades determinaron que el accidente se debió a un error del piloto Oscar Arredondo Pérez, puesto que en el momento del despegue la unidad tenía en el tanque combustible suficiente para dos horas de vuelo, lo cual "es un exceso", si se considera que "el piloto nunca estableció su ruta de vuelo" y, sobre todo, por la altura de la ciudad de México.
Sin embargo, será hoy cuando la caja negra y la bitácora de vuelo (que se encuentra intacta y sólo presenta humedad por combustible) ingresarán al Departamento de Investigaciones de la DGAC.
Las autoridades revelaron que otro elemento que contribuyó al desplome del helicóptero fue que el piloto "se salió de gráficas"; esto es, que nunca estableció una relación de vuelo con base en la cantidad de pasajeros y su peso, la cantidad de gasolina que tenía la aeronave y el equipaje que portaban los viajeros.
Aclararon que el sobrepeso de la nave y la altura de la ciudad de México provocaron que el helicóptero perdiera altura luego de haber avanzado 250 metros.
"Por como se presentó el accidente, se puede determinar que hubo omisión en la revisión del manual de vuelo para entrar en gráficas. Este procedimiento es básico, sobre todo porque cuando se trasporta a personas u objetos se tienen que considerar los cambios que presentan las unidades en cuanto al peso que llevan y la altura en la que se encuentra el helipuerto", precisaron.
Agregaron que "no es la primera vez que pilotos, incluso experimentados, como el que tuvo el accidente, se confían en ese helipuerto. Hace menos de dos años un helicóptero Bell 206 se desplomó en el mismo sitio cuando intentaba emprender el vuelo".
Con base en la bitácora, el helicóptero Augusta A 109, matrícula XA-UEN, salió del hangar de la empresa Helivan tripulado sólo con el piloto, a las 8 de la mañana, con destino al helipuerto Miditel.
Una vez que aterrizó en la pista ubicada en Montes Urales, siete pasajeros abordaron la nave, propiedad de la empresa Vz Fligths.
La aeronave es de modelo reciente, con apenas 163 horas de vuelo; sólo se le había realizado el servicio de mantenimiento preventivo de las primeras 100 horas de vuelo, lo cual implica cambio de filtros y lavado de inyectores, similar a las revisiones de los automotores.
Técnicos consultados refirieron que los fabricantes de los Augusta recomiendan revisiones de taller cada 100 horas de vuelo, aunque las unidades pueden durar hasta mil horas de vuelo sin revisión.
Según la carta de vuelo, el piloto accidentado cuenta con amplia experiencia. Antes de trabajar en Vz Fligths lo hizo para Commander Mexicana.
Las autoridades consultadas dijeron que otra línea que se debe investigar se refiere a las presiones laborales a las que se sabe son sometidos los pilotos de la empresa a la cual pertenece la unidad accidentada. "Hasta las autoridades sabemos que la esposa del dueño de Vz Fligths -cuyo nombre no precisaron- presiona a los pilotos para realizar viajes que se salen de lo establecido en los manuales de vuelo. Ellos tienen que obedecer por temor a peder su empleo", afirmaron.
Regards.
Aser
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I think, Helivan (Helitaliban as knows in México) has the record of accidents allover Mexico in just a few years of operations....
Just check-it..
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/342849.html
Just check-it..
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/342849.html