Bad experience with instructor? Or was it just me?
I always find it quite incredible the attitude of some instructors.
If you rung up and said you needed to hire a machine for a 1 hour photo shoot, they would be falling over themselves to organise things for you, but book a TIF and its a different story. Same money. You are a client after all, so if you are not happy with the treatment, ask for your money back and go somewhere else.
If you rung up and said you needed to hire a machine for a 1 hour photo shoot, they would be falling over themselves to organise things for you, but book a TIF and its a different story. Same money. You are a client after all, so if you are not happy with the treatment, ask for your money back and go somewhere else.
Hovering AND talking
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A tad harsh, Whirls! Not all freelancers are looking at the mighty buck.
I have had, through my flying "career", 7 different instructors at three different schools. All of them I would highly recommend. Two I know where salaried but the rest were freelance. I'm not sure if it is valid to extrapolate those statistics but, I am sure that there are many conscientious instructors out there.
One piece of advice I was given (which may, or may not be fair) was to find an instructor who instructed because he wanted to rather than who was hour-building to get onto the more "exciting" aspects of flying.
How someone is paid, in whatever profession, has a bearing on how they do the job and their motives for doing it. I think of lay magistrates for example and special constables!
Cheers
Whirls
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Originally Posted by scottishbeefer
Name & Shame!!! (Come on - the rest of you were hoping he would!)
I think I am going to give it another go attend my rescheduled lesson first, and see how goes, and THEN if I feel it goes badly, I'll name the school.
If he was just having a bad day, then I wouldnt want to risk tarnishing his reputation and also it would lead to a very awkward lesson
He has emailed me back and apologised as I mentioned and said he wasnt annoyed, but at the end of the day he still did say
"it doesnt make a difference to me as you are going to train in USA anyway, you cant be that serious about this if you cant even find a few hours to spare" (I have paid for the lesson so its not a money issue)
and I as the customer still got the impression he was annoyed at me
I just wonder if he's already read this
Garfs
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Garfs,
Just don't lose sight of the fact that YOU are the customer and YOU help pay his salary. You don't owe him any favours. If he wants your custom he should be professional and proper in all respects, including in his attitude towards you!
Just don't lose sight of the fact that YOU are the customer and YOU help pay his salary. You don't owe him any favours. If he wants your custom he should be professional and proper in all respects, including in his attitude towards you!
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Considering that 'Garfs' seems to have had a pretty poor introduction to aviation, he has shown great profesionalism in his judgement of not flying in crappy weather and from restraining in bad mouthing this instructor. Fair play to you Garfs.
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Originally Posted by IntheTin
Considering that 'Garfs' seems to have had a pretty poor introduction to aviation, he has shown great profesionalism in his judgement of not flying in crappy weather and from restraining in bad mouthing this instructor. Fair play to you Garfs.
Lets just hope that this "professionalism" will one day help me land that first flying job I dream of, or any jobs thereafter should I be so lucky
Garfs
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Why is everyone so quick to have a go at this instructor without getting his side of the story??
I have a feeling there are two sides to this one.
Garfs, I am not having a go at you as I don’t know the tone of the original conversation, but my experience with a very small amount of customers, when they ring looking for a weather brief on the morning and it is slightly less then perfect and several cancellations have been made to accommodate a half hour flight, some can start getting stroppy with the "I am the customer, I am paying your wages" line.
I am glad to say I haven’t lost the rag yet; I usually just pass them on to someone else, someone more enthusiastic then myself, because I really couldn't be bothered with that type of hassle anymore.
I understand it may be a big day for you, but it’s just a standard day for that instructor, maybe he did go off on a hair trigger or maybe he was pushed, who am I to say?
I just find it bizarre that an instructor would bother getting worked up about (a 30min?) trial lesson canceling, unless there is more to this then meets the eye.
By you coming on here looking for vindication makes me think there is!!
I have a feeling there are two sides to this one.
Garfs, I am not having a go at you as I don’t know the tone of the original conversation, but my experience with a very small amount of customers, when they ring looking for a weather brief on the morning and it is slightly less then perfect and several cancellations have been made to accommodate a half hour flight, some can start getting stroppy with the "I am the customer, I am paying your wages" line.
I am glad to say I haven’t lost the rag yet; I usually just pass them on to someone else, someone more enthusiastic then myself, because I really couldn't be bothered with that type of hassle anymore.
I understand it may be a big day for you, but it’s just a standard day for that instructor, maybe he did go off on a hair trigger or maybe he was pushed, who am I to say?
I just find it bizarre that an instructor would bother getting worked up about (a 30min?) trial lesson canceling, unless there is more to this then meets the eye.
By you coming on here looking for vindication makes me think there is!!
An intro lesson? Dont you guys teach ab-initio flying by setting an attitude on the horizon?
Why would anyone expect that to be achieveable in poor viz and showers anyway? Kind of defeats the purpose of a "lesson".
Why would anyone expect that to be achieveable in poor viz and showers anyway? Kind of defeats the purpose of a "lesson".
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Autosync
Think what you like, you are entitled to your own opinion.
If you think I am lying about something or whatever then so be it, but that would do me more harm than good.
And does that justify him saying he doesnt care because I am probably going to America anyway?
We all get annoyed, I do too at work at customers but I have never lashed out like in my own workplace as I have a level of professionalism to maintain. I work in recruitment and people I book in for interviews etc very often mess me about but I am not rude to them.
Garfs
Think what you like, you are entitled to your own opinion.
If you think I am lying about something or whatever then so be it, but that would do me more harm than good.
And does that justify him saying he doesnt care because I am probably going to America anyway?
We all get annoyed, I do too at work at customers but I have never lashed out like in my own workplace as I have a level of professionalism to maintain. I work in recruitment and people I book in for interviews etc very often mess me about but I am not rude to them.
Garfs
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Effects of controls is the first lesson.
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Garfs, I am not accusing you of lying, I am just reminding others who have condemned this guy to remember there are 2 sides to every story.
Whirly:
When there are showers passing through, more often then not, there is clear weather in between.
If a qualified FI (and presumably experienced FI) thinks that it is ok to fly, Who are you to come on here and condem him for poor judgement without knowing the full facts?
Whirly:
When there are showers passing through, more often then not, there is clear weather in between.
If a qualified FI (and presumably experienced FI) thinks that it is ok to fly, Who are you to come on here and condem him for poor judgement without knowing the full facts?
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quote:
"One piece of advice I was given (which may, or may not be fair) was to find an instructor who instructed because he wanted to rather than who was hour-building to get onto the more "exciting" aspects of flying."
mmm.... i think you will struggle to find many instructors what -really- want to do it. i would say 60% accept that is what they have to do to build hours, and they apply themselves to it, 20% love it and stay with it, and 20% hate it and cant wait to move onto bigger things
dont judge this instructor too harshly. yes, students are "the customer". but they are also the general public, and liable to be idiots. i've forgotten the number of trial lessons who haven't turned up at the school (ie not even called to cancel).
the life of a low-time UK instructor is sometimes not a pleasant one, battling a small (old-boy-network?) industry, flooded with ex-military types who hoover up the decent turbine jobs, the rip-off CAA, the crap weather, driving all around the country just to get hours and struggling to pay off 50 grand worth of debts
ask yourselves this - who has never had a bad day at work?
"One piece of advice I was given (which may, or may not be fair) was to find an instructor who instructed because he wanted to rather than who was hour-building to get onto the more "exciting" aspects of flying."
mmm.... i think you will struggle to find many instructors what -really- want to do it. i would say 60% accept that is what they have to do to build hours, and they apply themselves to it, 20% love it and stay with it, and 20% hate it and cant wait to move onto bigger things
dont judge this instructor too harshly. yes, students are "the customer". but they are also the general public, and liable to be idiots. i've forgotten the number of trial lessons who haven't turned up at the school (ie not even called to cancel).
the life of a low-time UK instructor is sometimes not a pleasant one, battling a small (old-boy-network?) industry, flooded with ex-military types who hoover up the decent turbine jobs, the rip-off CAA, the crap weather, driving all around the country just to get hours and struggling to pay off 50 grand worth of debts
ask yourselves this - who has never had a bad day at work?
The Original Whirly
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When there are showers passing through, more often then not, there is clear weather in between.
If a qualified FI (and presumably experienced FI) thinks that it is ok to fly, Who are you to come on here and condem him for poor judgement without knowing the full facts?
If a qualified FI (and presumably experienced FI) thinks that it is ok to fly, Who are you to come on here and condem him for poor judgement without knowing the full facts?
Concerning showers, that is of course true. But I was responding to your comment
If you only go flying on crystal clear days in the uk you aren't really ever going to achieve much!
Please find the post where I condemned the FI for poor judgement. I did not do so, as far as I recall. I condemned his attitude to a potential student IF AND ONLY IF it was as described. Of course, I only have the facts as given here, and no way of checking them. And bearing that in mind, it would be quite appropriate to say on here that if the facts were as given, in my opinion someone exhibited poor judgement. And, of course, if later information showed that something different occurred, then I would change my opinion.
If you only want something proved beyond all doubt before you can comment, Rotorheads would die tomorrow.
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[QUOTE=autosync]Garfs, I am not accusing you of lying, I am just reminding others who have condemned this guy to remember there are 2 sides to every story.
QUOTE]
Fair point. There IS always 2 sides to a story, and obviously he has his.
This is obviously my side as I saw it which does not benefit me in any way by posting here as I am not out to name and shame.
Anyway, as I say, I am just looking forward to my lesson.
Garfs
QUOTE]
Fair point. There IS always 2 sides to a story, and obviously he has his.
This is obviously my side as I saw it which does not benefit me in any way by posting here as I am not out to name and shame.
Anyway, as I say, I am just looking forward to my lesson.
Garfs
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I must say, that even before reading Autosync's posts, my sentiments were that this is a very loaded and one-sided thread. In fact I was amazed at how people immediately jumped to the defence of Garf without considering that fact. Assumptions were made left, right and centre with very little basis.
Again, I definitely am not trying to slur Garf. Of course he has a right to good service and is perfectly entitled to make his own judgement and spend his money where he chooses. But as Autosync, am simply seeing another possible side to the whole situation.
cl12pv2s
To: Joe Bloggs
Hello Joe,
How are you? I've had a terrible week. You remember Jack, my son. Well his eyes have worsened and he will probably be blind for the rest of his life. I think I'm going to have to sell the other 10 kids to scientific experiments if I can't bring some cash home soon. Life's been so bad since the Pit closed and my wife ran off with the milkman.
Well to top it all, here's what happened the other day.
This guy came and booked a flight with me. He seemed like a nice guy; very honest. I had planned to go to the charity run in France in aid of 'Abused Children' on Saturday, but the only time this guy could fly with me was that same Saturday, so I changed my flights to fit him in before I left. Cost me a couple of hundred pounds!
Well, I had just got off the phone with the travel agent, when the guy rings me up and says that he couldn't make that Saturday, could we fly on the Friday after! OK I said. I didn't tell him that Friday was my busiest day, and always begins with a visit to the Old People's Home to visit my infirm grandmother, followed by a trip to the Salvation Army to give soup to the homeless. And that's all done before breakfast, after which I work a full schedule with flight students. Well, someones got to pay for the new pair of glasses for young Jack.
I asked him to call me on Friday morning, as I knew that there was a front passing through. So on that Friday morning, the weather seemed ok, so I got the aircraft out, preflighted and fueled and I get this call from the guy again. We had a discussion, and I told him the weather was well within limits for training. Yes, there were a few scattered showers expected which were reducing visablity slightly, but typically with unstable air, the vis is good. No problem I told him, we'll just fly around the showers. You'll be able to see for miles! It'll be fun I said. But he didn't want fun...so I said, "You can't be too serious on your first flight. Go out and enjoy it!"
Well this guy started having a go at me, and told me that he didn't trust my judgement on the weather and wanted to reschedule again.
Just as I was explaining that it was safe to fly, another helicopter passed overhead, so I had to shout into the phone.
I said to him, "It doesn't make a difference to you anyway. As you mentioned, you were thinking of going to America to do most of your training. The weather is great there, you'll have ample opportunity to do some fair weather flying. I really hope you enjoy it." I think the last bit got drowned out by the noise.
Anyway, the guy slammed the phone down on me.
I tried to go out of my way to accomodate this guy. Isn't it amazing how some people think they can treat us like that and forget that we have lives and livings to make too!
Hmm...is it just me or do you think he was having a bad day?
Again, I definitely am not trying to slur Garf. Of course he has a right to good service and is perfectly entitled to make his own judgement and spend his money where he chooses. But as Autosync, am simply seeing another possible side to the whole situation.
cl12pv2s
To: Joe Bloggs
Hello Joe,
How are you? I've had a terrible week. You remember Jack, my son. Well his eyes have worsened and he will probably be blind for the rest of his life. I think I'm going to have to sell the other 10 kids to scientific experiments if I can't bring some cash home soon. Life's been so bad since the Pit closed and my wife ran off with the milkman.
Well to top it all, here's what happened the other day.
This guy came and booked a flight with me. He seemed like a nice guy; very honest. I had planned to go to the charity run in France in aid of 'Abused Children' on Saturday, but the only time this guy could fly with me was that same Saturday, so I changed my flights to fit him in before I left. Cost me a couple of hundred pounds!
Well, I had just got off the phone with the travel agent, when the guy rings me up and says that he couldn't make that Saturday, could we fly on the Friday after! OK I said. I didn't tell him that Friday was my busiest day, and always begins with a visit to the Old People's Home to visit my infirm grandmother, followed by a trip to the Salvation Army to give soup to the homeless. And that's all done before breakfast, after which I work a full schedule with flight students. Well, someones got to pay for the new pair of glasses for young Jack.
I asked him to call me on Friday morning, as I knew that there was a front passing through. So on that Friday morning, the weather seemed ok, so I got the aircraft out, preflighted and fueled and I get this call from the guy again. We had a discussion, and I told him the weather was well within limits for training. Yes, there were a few scattered showers expected which were reducing visablity slightly, but typically with unstable air, the vis is good. No problem I told him, we'll just fly around the showers. You'll be able to see for miles! It'll be fun I said. But he didn't want fun...so I said, "You can't be too serious on your first flight. Go out and enjoy it!"
Well this guy started having a go at me, and told me that he didn't trust my judgement on the weather and wanted to reschedule again.
Just as I was explaining that it was safe to fly, another helicopter passed overhead, so I had to shout into the phone.
I said to him, "It doesn't make a difference to you anyway. As you mentioned, you were thinking of going to America to do most of your training. The weather is great there, you'll have ample opportunity to do some fair weather flying. I really hope you enjoy it." I think the last bit got drowned out by the noise.
Anyway, the guy slammed the phone down on me.
I tried to go out of my way to accomodate this guy. Isn't it amazing how some people think they can treat us like that and forget that we have lives and livings to make too!
Hmm...is it just me or do you think he was having a bad day?
Last edited by cl12pv2s; 21st Mar 2006 at 16:20.
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Well yes, people have good days and bad days and that doesn't necessarily make them a bad person or not fit to instruct. But we aren't going to congratulate someone for having a bad day; I think most of us were just reassuring Garfs that if he didn't want to spend his money that day he didn't have to, even if Garfs had the feeling that the instructor was irritated by that.
Its the nature of the game as a freelance instructor - some days it falls in your lap, other days no matter what you do you're walking home empty handed.
Its the nature of the game as a freelance instructor - some days it falls in your lap, other days no matter what you do you're walking home empty handed.
