Flying in France (incl Permits, Private sites and Pictures)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FIS/Basic Service?
I'm heading off to France for a week's touring this weekend. Have done the trip before a few years ago and have my helisurface permit tucked away safely in the flight bag. But I was wondering if there has been any change in ATC services as we have seen in the UK this year? I'm likely only to want a basic service or maybe a traffic service, but what are these known as in France today? To be clear, I will be requesting these in English, not French as all the en route controllers speak perfectly good English.
I've just got back from France and if anything, our French cousins seem to have improved their service (they even reply to English accents now 
)
You need to pretend the new ATSOCAS rules haven't happened yet i.e. ask for a FIS/RIS.
Have a great trip!
TTB
)You need to pretend the new ATSOCAS rules haven't happened yet i.e. ask for a FIS/RIS.
Have a great trip!
TTB
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks TTB. Made it down to the South of France yesterday. Rather hazy across the Channel and a bit claggy in places as we flew down, but you were right. ATC very helpful and those lady controllers do have exceptionally mellifluous voices; all added to the pleasure of the trip!
Good stuff - weather's looking good for the 2nd half of this week, so Mrs TTB and I will be scooting over for one of our regular trips to the Red Fox and Restaurant Perard in LT one evening! Helitech first though 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HLS map - http://goo.gl/maps/3ymt
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hi Guys, 2 questions if you would be so kind.
Firstly I was wondering if there is a more up to date way of applying for the "Habilitation a Utiliser les Helisurfaces" yet? over the internet etc... or if it still needs to be done by pigeon. yawn.
Secondly I'm planning to make my first proper venture through france soon (Only been to L2K), hoping to fly to Geneva & around Mont Blanc. I've read a fair amount about the military corridors, and planning considerations with regards to fuel and opening hours etc... but where some airspace around Geneva has a lower limit labelled "3500 / 1000 ASFC" am I right in assuming it is which ever value is higher? i.e. TMA base of Alt 3500' until reaching terrain heights of 2500'+after which it follows the terrain at 1000' ASFC?
I'm hoping to land at La Cote (a few miles north east of Geneva) and would like to join from the north - where the terrain drops away very quickly from 6000' on the TMA boundary, which is partly why I want to be completely sure of the understanding in order to build an accurate mental picture of the airspace surrounding Geneva.
Thanks
Aucky
Firstly I was wondering if there is a more up to date way of applying for the "Habilitation a Utiliser les Helisurfaces" yet? over the internet etc... or if it still needs to be done by pigeon. yawn.
Secondly I'm planning to make my first proper venture through france soon (Only been to L2K), hoping to fly to Geneva & around Mont Blanc. I've read a fair amount about the military corridors, and planning considerations with regards to fuel and opening hours etc... but where some airspace around Geneva has a lower limit labelled "3500 / 1000 ASFC" am I right in assuming it is which ever value is higher? i.e. TMA base of Alt 3500' until reaching terrain heights of 2500'+after which it follows the terrain at 1000' ASFC?
I'm hoping to land at La Cote (a few miles north east of Geneva) and would like to join from the north - where the terrain drops away very quickly from 6000' on the TMA boundary, which is partly why I want to be completely sure of the understanding in order to build an accurate mental picture of the airspace surrounding Geneva.
Thanks
Aucky
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK, sometimes
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Always worth looking at the french SIA CIVILE website, as they have a good NOTAM section (not just for France) and a good chart showing the activity of the military low fly corridors (AZBA Charts - a picture speaks a thousand words). Plus it is all free and available in English.
You can also access the AIP and print out any aerodrome charts you might need for the flight if you dont have them.
The lowest point of the Jura is to the north, around the area where La Paz DME used to be. That will bring you out at the north end of Lac Geneve. Just beware of the Nuclear power station / ZITs to the south west of Geneva if you get forced that way due to weather, as busting those will mean the French authorities will bust you, and poss your licence. You are correct about the controlled airspace heights / altitudes. Basically stops you needing to low fly to remain clear of the airspace above. Geneva Info are really helpful, although you may need to telephone the local BRIA(french) to close your flight plan (if you have one and have landed in France) and landing off airfield.
You can also access the AIP and print out any aerodrome charts you might need for the flight if you dont have them.
The lowest point of the Jura is to the north, around the area where La Paz DME used to be. That will bring you out at the north end of Lac Geneve. Just beware of the Nuclear power station / ZITs to the south west of Geneva if you get forced that way due to weather, as busting those will mean the French authorities will bust you, and poss your licence. You are correct about the controlled airspace heights / altitudes. Basically stops you needing to low fly to remain clear of the airspace above. Geneva Info are really helpful, although you may need to telephone the local BRIA(french) to close your flight plan (if you have one and have landed in France) and landing off airfield.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HLS map - http://goo.gl/maps/3ymt
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hyds Out - Thanks for the confirmation on airspace limits, and info on the powerstation / ZIT's to the south west, I shall have a look on my chart when I get home to identify these areas, and do my best to avoid them
I'm familiar with the SIA Civile website but I hadn't seen the AZBA Charts, so thanks again for the heads up. It's a great help.
Aucky
I'm familiar with the SIA Civile website but I hadn't seen the AZBA Charts, so thanks again for the heads up. It's a great help.
Aucky
Passion Flying Hobby Science Sponsor Work
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Belgium
Age: 68
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aucky
Helisurface Permit
Just renewed my with Paris, all by e-mail. So no, pigeon not longer needed. They have e-mail and accept pdf scans.
d3
Helisurface Permit
Just renewed my with Paris, all by e-mail. So no, pigeon not longer needed. They have e-mail and accept pdf scans.
d3
Thread Starter
D-3,got the address please ?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helisurface Permit
Great news that you can apply on line for the permit. Traditionally they can take quite a long time to come by post - the all time record I heard of was almost two years! Not sure how long they take for on line applications and would be interested to find out.
I am on my third permit now and wouldn't be without it having had it inspected three times. The last time by customs officers who flew into the hotel where I was staying. All very friendly as the paperwork was in order but they did say that fines can start at €3,000 going up to €50,000 and the helicopter may also be impounded.
The wording on the application form is still slightly confusing and can lead to the belief that the Permit relates to only one particular helicopter or just one location. This is not the case as the Permit is issued in the name of the person applying and does not mention any particular helicopter, or at least my permit does not.
If you don't own your own helicopter just put down the details of a helicopter that appears in the copy of your log book pages which you send to them.
Under region or area I put Toute de France and under purpose Tourism.
Bon chance.
I am on my third permit now and wouldn't be without it having had it inspected three times. The last time by customs officers who flew into the hotel where I was staying. All very friendly as the paperwork was in order but they did say that fines can start at €3,000 going up to €50,000 and the helicopter may also be impounded.
The wording on the application form is still slightly confusing and can lead to the belief that the Permit relates to only one particular helicopter or just one location. This is not the case as the Permit is issued in the name of the person applying and does not mention any particular helicopter, or at least my permit does not.
If you don't own your own helicopter just put down the details of a helicopter that appears in the copy of your log book pages which you send to them.
Under region or area I put Toute de France and under purpose Tourism.
Bon chance.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HLS map - http://goo.gl/maps/3ymt
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Got the permit through in about 6 weeks... all applied for by email (with a few scanned documents)
Do many people land heli's at Troyes? I'm hoping to land there en-route to the Alps as I understand the fuel system takes cards there, but in the AIP plate (and Delage) helicopters are not indicated in the 'Activities' section. I know people who have landed there... In which case I assume they are not prohibited. Does anyone know the purpose of the section at the top of the plate, and if I should expect to encounter any difficulties? https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.LFQB.pdf
Also with regards to the providing confirmation of VAT paid on the aircraft, is that a common check? Don't know where to start looking for that... guess I should get onto the accountants, are they looking for a receipt of sorts, or should there be a certificate or something similar?
Do many people land heli's at Troyes? I'm hoping to land there en-route to the Alps as I understand the fuel system takes cards there, but in the AIP plate (and Delage) helicopters are not indicated in the 'Activities' section. I know people who have landed there... In which case I assume they are not prohibited. Does anyone know the purpose of the section at the top of the plate, and if I should expect to encounter any difficulties? https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv..._AD-2.LFQB.pdf
Also with regards to the providing confirmation of VAT paid on the aircraft, is that a common check? Don't know where to start looking for that... guess I should get onto the accountants, are they looking for a receipt of sorts, or should there be a certificate or something similar?
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Landing at Troyes & VAT etc
Have landed at Troyes many times and always found them polite and helpful. They have a nice cafe too. Might be worth taking ground wheels or risk getting a Gallic stare from fixed wing pilots queing up for fuel.
I always carry a copy of the original helicopter purchase invoice with me which shows VAT on it. Only been asked for it once at Le Touquet by a bunch of Douannes who stepped out of a Squirrel and who clearly had me down as a villain.
I always carry a copy of the original helicopter purchase invoice with me which shows VAT on it. Only been asked for it once at Le Touquet by a bunch of Douannes who stepped out of a Squirrel and who clearly had me down as a villain.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can anyone offer guidance on completing the Helisurface permit please ?: I have found / followed the various links to the website:
Site Internet de la Préfecture de Police - Aviation civile
At the PROPRIETAIRE : As I currently SFH and don't have a particular aircraft I use - do I leave this blank ?
For the SECTEUR GEOGRAPHIQUE CONCERNE : Can I just put "France" ? At this moment I don't have a particular trip in mind, but with friends properties in France, and feeling the need to explore - I want to get the permit in good time to cover as much as possible.
Thanks for any help.
Site Internet de la Préfecture de Police - Aviation civile
At the PROPRIETAIRE : As I currently SFH and don't have a particular aircraft I use - do I leave this blank ?
For the SECTEUR GEOGRAPHIQUE CONCERNE : Can I just put "France" ? At this moment I don't have a particular trip in mind, but with friends properties in France, and feeling the need to explore - I want to get the permit in good time to cover as much as possible.
Thanks for any help.
You can put down any tail number providing it appears in the last two pages of your log book (the cert is for the driver, not the machine).
For area, you can say 'All of France'.
For area, you can say 'All of France'.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HLS map - http://goo.gl/maps/3ymt
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My application was equally vague as I had no specific trip in mind... The permit took approx 3-4 weeks to arrive. For anyone hoping to make the submission the rather long winded email address to send it to is:
dtpp-sddep-brep-transports-exception...erieur.gouv.fr
My application included the form
http://www.prefecturedepolice.interi...lisurfaces.pdf, a scan of my license, passport, and last 2 pages of the log book... no questions asked, et Voila
I didn't use it in the end on a recent trip to the Alps, but I hope to in the future (now that i've scouted out a few Chateaux's)
dtpp-sddep-brep-transports-exception...erieur.gouv.fr
My application included the form
http://www.prefecturedepolice.interi...lisurfaces.pdf, a scan of my license, passport, and last 2 pages of the log book... no questions asked, et Voila
I didn't use it in the end on a recent trip to the Alps, but I hope to in the future (now that i've scouted out a few Chateaux's)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For an update & clarification on the French Helisurfaces Permit procedure; I recently received mine. Some general info below as they updated their procedure/criteria in recent years:
- Permit requires 300hrs helicopter or CPL license (with exception below)
- for those with more than 70hrs but less than 300hrs helicopter they require a course of 5hrs training on confined areas landing/takeoff
- for the 5hrs confined area training, they accept written confirmation from a JAA Instructor/Examiner.
- Permit is valid for 10 years
Docs required:
- complete Helisurfaces Authorisation Form
- copy of Pilots License
- copy of Medical
- copy of Passport
- copy of Pilot Logbook (last two pages)
download docs: http://www.prefecturedepolice.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/3089/16591/file/autorisation_helisurfaces.pdf
e-mail to:
[email protected]
Re timeframe, mine involved them corresponding with me on two issues, so took a total of 6 months from start to finish. Being fluent (or having a friend help) in French will be a great help.
* I thank Aucky above for originally providing the e-mail address. After two phone calls to Paris and getting it wrong twice due to my poor French, I didn’t have the heart to call the woman back a third time.
- Permit requires 300hrs helicopter or CPL license (with exception below)
- for those with more than 70hrs but less than 300hrs helicopter they require a course of 5hrs training on confined areas landing/takeoff
- for the 5hrs confined area training, they accept written confirmation from a JAA Instructor/Examiner.
- Permit is valid for 10 years
Docs required:
- complete Helisurfaces Authorisation Form
- copy of Pilots License
- copy of Medical
- copy of Passport
- copy of Pilot Logbook (last two pages)
download docs: http://www.prefecturedepolice.interieur.gouv.fr/content/download/3089/16591/file/autorisation_helisurfaces.pdf
e-mail to:
[email protected]
Re timeframe, mine involved them corresponding with me on two issues, so took a total of 6 months from start to finish. Being fluent (or having a friend help) in French will be a great help.
* I thank Aucky above for originally providing the e-mail address. After two phone calls to Paris and getting it wrong twice due to my poor French, I didn’t have the heart to call the woman back a third time.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where it rains a lot .....
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
French Heli Surfaces Permit
hi All,
does anyone have the full email address where to send this completed form,
i have found other threads with an email address in, but part of it is hidden.
thanks in advance
nelly
does anyone have the full email address where to send this completed form,
i have found other threads with an email address in, but part of it is hidden.
thanks in advance
nelly