Multi-crew logging of time

[sandy helmet]

There are so many differing opinions of time logging in this new (to me) multi crew environment - can someone put me straight? All this commander/captain/sfo/fo/P1,P1 U/S etc etc
Here's the scenario. CAA type environment, 412/212

Left Seat Right Seat Log Log
Captain SFO (PF) P1? P1U/S?

Cmdr Captain (PF) P1? P1?

Its all a bit confusing. Does it work on the PF the sector. Some say that as senior captain the commander can log all time as P1, while others say not.

Any guidance is much appreciated.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Commander in RHS logs P1 wether he is handling or not.
Co-pilot in LHS logs P1us only for the time he is handling and P2 for the rest.
P1us is signed by the commander in the logbook.

[Up & Away]

Brilliant ''right on the button"
HeliFirst

[malabo]

"CAA" type environment explains it. Post-war French airlines pioneered the "commander manages flight and first-officer flies" concept successfully - the Brits never caught on. RHS & LHS is a fossilized notion. Doesn't matter where the "commander" sits or whether he is the handling pilot or not. Last time I checked, every multi-engine IFR helicopter has duplicate controls and instrumentation for this very purpose. The AB139 is the first and only aircraft I''ve seen with a Right Seat Only landing and takeoff restriction in the Flight Manual. Hopefully even that is only temporary.

malabo

[Brilliant Stuff]

I know Schreiner are handling it even better there the commander can sit either left or right, which means the P2 gets to fly the aircraft from the RHS just as much as from the LHS which will be very usefull to him once he makes commander himself. Would have been useful to a certain former colleague of mine.

[Vertolot]

In the AS365N2 it says in the Flight Manual that CAT-A T/O and Landing are allowed only from the RHS, why this? In the HEMS operations there is almost only CAT-A, should this mean that the Captain and Co-pilot should change seats when changing PF to PNF??

[chopperbee]

CAA type environment......well now is that what they are calling it down there.
Sandy Helmet you are always P1 when you fly with those lawless locals!

[SASless]

Christ on a crutch...we really care about which seat is used....by whom....when...for what?

Try this one...helicopter type certificated for pilot in right seat when solo. But..equipped with duals...mod to include a bubble door on the left and engine gauges in the door...start button etc on the left hand seat side as well as the right side. You are flying a longline...sitting in the left seat and you are solo.

According to some of yez....one could not log any time at all because you are in the wrong seat.

[212man]

Malabo, the 155 has a RHS restriction for the Cat A vertical take off. It is a function of the hover attitude (right wing low) and subsequent visibility when climbing vertically.

Concur with Brilliant stuff though might be guilty of "do as I say, not as I do"!

[Leaky Valve]

The pilot who signs for the aircraft, irrespective of seat, logs P1. The other pilot, irrespective of rank, logs either P2 or P1u/s as required.

[Woolf]

Just handling the aircraft as P2 does not qualify as P1/US. In order to log P1/US the P2 must manage the flight from start to finish which the P1 then needs to confirm by signature in the logbook.

[Vertolot]

When can a copilot log P1u/s, who can sign off for P1u/s ie. is there any speciall requirements??

[Woolf]

Any P1 in a multicrew helicopter should be able to sign off P1/US. I don't think there are any restrictions for P2's however you obviously must be able to fully conduct the flight in the capacity of P1 without the "real" P1 needing to interfere.

[Eurochopper]

Here's one for you....The definition of flight time for logbook purposes includes time spent rotors-running on deck whilst pax are getting on and off etc. Co-pilot does not have an ATPL so cannot log P1 on a large twin. Captain gets out for a pee - who logs what?

In practice copilot continues to log P2 or P1/us whilst captain logs P1, even though he is not in the aircraft!

[Vertolot]

Is there any reason for logging P1/us instead of P2(excuse me if this is a stupid question)??

[Eurochopper]

Vertolot

You need P1 time to upgrade your cpl(H) to an atpl(h) - P1/us counts for some of that time (check JAR-FCL 2 for full details)

[alarotantejr]

Two pilots in single pilot operation - Logbook

Hello to all Rotorheads,
I need to know if there is any way to log time in this situation. I'm flying for a company who has signed a contract for a twin-engine Day VFR operations. The client and also the local autority wants two pilots in the cocpit but the operations are made with a single pilot helicopter (in this case is a B412). Both pilots rated on the type, both captain and flying according JAR OPS3 rules. No MCC operations in the company opertional manuals ( so far,,)
Is in this situation only the pilot acting as PIC eligible to log the flight time?or there is possibility also for the other to log flying time (maybe only the global time and not as pic or dual or copilot..?)

thanks

[Adroight]

If both pilots are rated on type then both pilots can log the flight time.

[alarotantejr]

But you mean both pilots can log as Pic? or one as PIC and the other can log only "flight time" with no entries in Pic, Cop,..columns?

[Adroight]

Only one pilot is PIC therefore only one pilot can log flight time as PIC. the other pilot can log flight time as SIC, co-pilot, PNF, call it what you want as long as the pilot is rated on the type.