Australia [Archive Copy]
Join Date: Oct 2002
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some answers to the dribble above
BHA Pilots contract 20001 from wagenet:
http://www.wagenet.gov.au/wagenet/Se...d=87991&query=(BRISTOW%20HELICOPTERS%20AUSTRALIA)&quickview=Y
The pilots have recently had their 2nd contract certified for 3 years from Jan1 2004 with a 9+5+5 pay-rise and other improved conditions which should hit wagenet at some stage also.
FO’s start on either the S76 or AS332 and usually have about 3 months training before flying the line (at no cost to them).
Progression for FO’s and SFO’s is currently good. There have been no redundancies in BHA over the last 10 years or so (major contracts all with a number of years to run). They do utilise a fair number of casual FO's as a buffer for short term contracts and they come and go regularly.
FO’s progression to SFO (significant pay-rise) takes between 1.5 to 2.5 years depending on experience and qualifications and performance. Command progression currently takes from 3.0 to 5.0 years from joining depending again on experience and Qual’s (on joining) and performance.
Biggest downer for most FO's seems to be the requirement to move to Perth, though it does have it's advantages as the bulk of the work is in WA and this cuts down travel times. After a certain time pilots can live anywhere in AUS though it comes at a cost both in monetary and lost time off (travel in time off). If you can't handle it go and work for CHC who sensibly allow there crews to tour from major capitals.
BHA has plenty of work at the moment and seems to be expanding and is operating out of Melbourne, Karratha, Honiara (Solomon’s), Barrow Island and Learmonth. It has a number of older pilots who are closing in on retirement so SFO progression to command should continue to occur at a reasonable pace in the short future. They are running a good system of overseas secondments to the international division which is also providing varied experience for crews.
FO requirement is 500 hr total helicopter plus pass in Australian IREX (instrument rating theory). Ideal hours to have a good progression through their system would be 1500 to 2000 hours command on helicopters (to avoid delays due their command requirements). No requirement to have ATPL or subjects (plenty of time to study that on tour).
They seem to target FO’s around 25 to 35 years old though they have employed FO’s older than that in recent years. Would probably need an Australian commercial licence though I’d imagine they would recognise foreign endorsements and experience for progression.
Accommodation is all single except Karratha where you have to share a unit with another pilot (not a bathroom!).
If you get in good luck and enjoy you won’t be disappointed with the jump in conditions from AUS GA flying!
http://www.wagenet.gov.au/wagenet/Se...d=87991&query=(BRISTOW%20HELICOPTERS%20AUSTRALIA)&quickview=Y
The pilots have recently had their 2nd contract certified for 3 years from Jan1 2004 with a 9+5+5 pay-rise and other improved conditions which should hit wagenet at some stage also.
FO’s start on either the S76 or AS332 and usually have about 3 months training before flying the line (at no cost to them).
Progression for FO’s and SFO’s is currently good. There have been no redundancies in BHA over the last 10 years or so (major contracts all with a number of years to run). They do utilise a fair number of casual FO's as a buffer for short term contracts and they come and go regularly.
FO’s progression to SFO (significant pay-rise) takes between 1.5 to 2.5 years depending on experience and qualifications and performance. Command progression currently takes from 3.0 to 5.0 years from joining depending again on experience and Qual’s (on joining) and performance.
Biggest downer for most FO's seems to be the requirement to move to Perth, though it does have it's advantages as the bulk of the work is in WA and this cuts down travel times. After a certain time pilots can live anywhere in AUS though it comes at a cost both in monetary and lost time off (travel in time off). If you can't handle it go and work for CHC who sensibly allow there crews to tour from major capitals.
BHA has plenty of work at the moment and seems to be expanding and is operating out of Melbourne, Karratha, Honiara (Solomon’s), Barrow Island and Learmonth. It has a number of older pilots who are closing in on retirement so SFO progression to command should continue to occur at a reasonable pace in the short future. They are running a good system of overseas secondments to the international division which is also providing varied experience for crews.
FO requirement is 500 hr total helicopter plus pass in Australian IREX (instrument rating theory). Ideal hours to have a good progression through their system would be 1500 to 2000 hours command on helicopters (to avoid delays due their command requirements). No requirement to have ATPL or subjects (plenty of time to study that on tour).
They seem to target FO’s around 25 to 35 years old though they have employed FO’s older than that in recent years. Would probably need an Australian commercial licence though I’d imagine they would recognise foreign endorsements and experience for progression.
Accommodation is all single except Karratha where you have to share a unit with another pilot (not a bathroom!).
If you get in good luck and enjoy you won’t be disappointed with the jump in conditions from AUS GA flying!
Aeropower
Hello all. Anyone ever worked for Aeropower in Oz? Just wondered what they are like as an employer. They seem like a professional outfit.
Cheers BigMike
Cheers BigMike
Flyer...
If it is....tell him the God's Honest truth.....you might walk on his corns but far better he know the truth (good or bad). If these managers cared...they would not be here asking...they would be out on the hardstand and in the hangar talking to his people. (purposeful choice of the word people vice staff or personnel or associates or manpower assets)
If it is....tell him the God's Honest truth.....you might walk on his corns but far better he know the truth (good or bad). If these managers cared...they would not be here asking...they would be out on the hardstand and in the hangar talking to his people. (purposeful choice of the word people vice staff or personnel or associates or manpower assets)
Big Mike. Aeropower seem to be a pretty good company. With the number of contracts they have and the number of machines they work, it would have to be a professional company wouldn't it?? Correct me if I am wrong but I think they are all 500's and from what I hear, quite well maintained machines. The pilots aren't paid nearly enough compared to the dangers involved but it would be excellent flying and you would get to see some amazing country. Apparrently it does get rather boring after a while, but then again, doesn't everything? Hope this helps.
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Big Mike- just check out the AFAP award online at
www.afap.org.au, before you sign or agree to any contract
with GA operators in Aus. Some would rather forget
it exists- Remember HA a few years ago anyone!!!!
www.afap.org.au, before you sign or agree to any contract
with GA operators in Aus. Some would rather forget
it exists- Remember HA a few years ago anyone!!!!
Good News For The Australian Helicopter Industry
This article in todays Australian seems to be pointing towards the long heralded shortage of experienced helicopter pilots.
Link
The Aviation section has been full of adverts over the last couple of editions, seeking crews for a variety of onshore and offshore positions.
Is the future for the industry really this bright?
Link
The Aviation section has been full of adverts over the last couple of editions, seeking crews for a variety of onshore and offshore positions.
Is the future for the industry really this bright?
Join Date: Nov 2000
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yes, though a lot of those guys in Oz and New Zealand could probably be found in Canada, where there is also a shortage - or rather, there are enough pilots there, but they mostly have 100 hours and the "consultants" are not allowing them to fly, so the shortage is actually for pilots over 1000 hours.
From what I hear, though I have no personal experience, the US is getting that way too.
In UK/Europe, the problem is finding good corporate pilots who can keep a customer entertained in a wet field for a couple of hours just having the numbers is not good enough.
My own estimate is that it will seriously begin to bite over the next 5 years, so you've got a bit of time to get in there.
My concern is that, as I keep saying in Vertical, unless we senior people start passing our knowledge on, the same old accidents are going to happen all over again, although it is fair to say that the young whippersnappers are gaining experience in a far better safety culture.
Phil
From what I hear, though I have no personal experience, the US is getting that way too.
In UK/Europe, the problem is finding good corporate pilots who can keep a customer entertained in a wet field for a couple of hours just having the numbers is not good enough.
My own estimate is that it will seriously begin to bite over the next 5 years, so you've got a bit of time to get in there.
My concern is that, as I keep saying in Vertical, unless we senior people start passing our knowledge on, the same old accidents are going to happen all over again, although it is fair to say that the young whippersnappers are gaining experience in a far better safety culture.
Phil
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Interesting read Pohm. Seems like a good time to be in the industry if you've got some runs on the board. However will there be enough 'experienced' drivers to fill in all those supposed openings that come with an expanding fleet. Where will the experience come from?
Maybe the industry (in Oz at least) is on a bit of a knife’s edge. The prospects look good however it could slip into the abyss if the lower hour, less experienced guys don't have the avenues/facilities to take the next step.
Where will/should the initiative come from?
Maybe the industry (in Oz at least) is on a bit of a knife’s edge. The prospects look good however it could slip into the abyss if the lower hour, less experienced guys don't have the avenues/facilities to take the next step.
Where will/should the initiative come from?
Join Date: May 2004
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It was interesting reading and there does appear to be some expansion going on; but I'm not convinced the picture is as rosy as the HAA thinks.
Certainly, insurance costs can make it 'difficult' to employ pilots with less than that magic 1,000 hour mark. It seems true that experienced pilots are getting harder to find for casual work as they're tending to be 'snapped up' into full time employment.
However, if the expansion is going to be mostly tourist flying, then there will be plenty of opportunities for the low time pilots who are willing to 'go anywhere' to work - judging by current practices.
Where will the initiatives come from? If the larger companies 'feel the pinch', I think the'll develop ways to bring the lower time people into the fold.
and the more the merrier - the HAA may even get more members!!
Certainly, insurance costs can make it 'difficult' to employ pilots with less than that magic 1,000 hour mark. It seems true that experienced pilots are getting harder to find for casual work as they're tending to be 'snapped up' into full time employment.
However, if the expansion is going to be mostly tourist flying, then there will be plenty of opportunities for the low time pilots who are willing to 'go anywhere' to work - judging by current practices.
Where will the initiatives come from? If the larger companies 'feel the pinch', I think the'll develop ways to bring the lower time people into the fold.
and the more the merrier - the HAA may even get more members!!
Australasia still doing well
The Australian government recently released the annual budget. We appear still to be the lucky country with low inflation, an almost record low unemployment and a budget surplus of over AUD$8 billion.
What does this mean to the average chopper driver or engineer?
The shortages of technical people, forecast recently, does not appear to have a long term solution. As the airlines expand, we will lose more engineers to them, so we must encourage any attempts to get young people into technical training programmes, rather than going to university. (But what is every parent’s dream?)
Also, we must get the insurance companies to lift the embargo on low hour pilots. ASFA, AOPA and the HAA to mention a few are now doing research into “the gut feeling” that low hour pilots are not cause of accidents. It is our dream that research may prove low hour pilots are not the problem, and thus they will get that first job more easily and not be exploited by hungry and greedy employers.
So what is actually happening in Australia and New Zealand?
The industry is continuing to grow at twice the GDP at about 8% in Australia and New Zealand. Our fleet doubled in size to the present Australian 1204 and New Zealand to 606 in eleven years. Due to predicted strong economic growth we expect the fleet to double again in only seven years. By comparison the aeroplane light aircraft fleet is barely making half the GDP at about 1 – 2 %.
The Robinson fleet in both countries dominates by a large margin. Australia has 372 Robinson R22 and 128 Robinson R44. The nearest to these figures are the Bell 206 at 170, Bell 47 at 111 and Squirell AS350 at 78. Robinsons are still very much in demand and the R44 is outselling the R22 through out the world, and will do so in Australia in the near future.
New Zealand’s most popular helicopter is also the Robinson R22 at 136, followed by the Hughes/Schweizer 500 series at 95 and the As 350 Squirrel at a close 93. The next place is a tussle between the Robinson R44 at 63 and the Hughes/Schweizer series 269 at 60. Slowly being edged out is the Bell 206 family at 53. The EADS products are making inroads into NZ and their numbers are expected to grow as tourism improves.
Readers can see what types are in service and a bit of study will provide some idea where they should look for employment. The HAA can provide a complimentary Excel data base of the 1,600 helicopters in Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately, we cannot get any sense out of Papua New Guinea, but we are working on it! In any case PNG has only about 60 helicopters and their economy is really very third world and despite the huge amount of aid from other nations, the country is drifting along very slowly.
What does this mean to the average chopper driver or engineer?
The shortages of technical people, forecast recently, does not appear to have a long term solution. As the airlines expand, we will lose more engineers to them, so we must encourage any attempts to get young people into technical training programmes, rather than going to university. (But what is every parent’s dream?)
Also, we must get the insurance companies to lift the embargo on low hour pilots. ASFA, AOPA and the HAA to mention a few are now doing research into “the gut feeling” that low hour pilots are not cause of accidents. It is our dream that research may prove low hour pilots are not the problem, and thus they will get that first job more easily and not be exploited by hungry and greedy employers.
So what is actually happening in Australia and New Zealand?
The industry is continuing to grow at twice the GDP at about 8% in Australia and New Zealand. Our fleet doubled in size to the present Australian 1204 and New Zealand to 606 in eleven years. Due to predicted strong economic growth we expect the fleet to double again in only seven years. By comparison the aeroplane light aircraft fleet is barely making half the GDP at about 1 – 2 %.
The Robinson fleet in both countries dominates by a large margin. Australia has 372 Robinson R22 and 128 Robinson R44. The nearest to these figures are the Bell 206 at 170, Bell 47 at 111 and Squirell AS350 at 78. Robinsons are still very much in demand and the R44 is outselling the R22 through out the world, and will do so in Australia in the near future.
New Zealand’s most popular helicopter is also the Robinson R22 at 136, followed by the Hughes/Schweizer 500 series at 95 and the As 350 Squirrel at a close 93. The next place is a tussle between the Robinson R44 at 63 and the Hughes/Schweizer series 269 at 60. Slowly being edged out is the Bell 206 family at 53. The EADS products are making inroads into NZ and their numbers are expected to grow as tourism improves.
Readers can see what types are in service and a bit of study will provide some idea where they should look for employment. The HAA can provide a complimentary Excel data base of the 1,600 helicopters in Australia and New Zealand. Unfortunately, we cannot get any sense out of Papua New Guinea, but we are working on it! In any case PNG has only about 60 helicopters and their economy is really very third world and despite the huge amount of aid from other nations, the country is drifting along very slowly.
Are you soem of the greedy or dumb?
Mustering Guru and 500
You guys really help our cause, which is to make our industry better, brighter and more accepted to the community.
What is wrong with trying to make it easier for low hour pilots to get a job. If they are wrongly being blamed for accidents, then we should fix it.
Otherwise the insurance companies impose a financial penalty on the employer, who in turn will not fork out the money and deny the first starter a job.
Are you afraid of growth? Are you afraid someone younger will steal your job? Will new talent show up your weaknesses shown in this thread.
Being dumb has its advantages, I suppose.
Just a final thought as I leave this thread, all the associations and their people trying to make us a better place to work all have other day jobs and they do this as volunteers.
If you feel so anti-progress why not join one of the groups and do your bit to promote your point of view, which is so clearly expressed here.
In fact what is you point of view, apart from shooting the messenger?
Wadda think guys? Show us the quality of your dribble.
Any thoughtys from others?
You guys really help our cause, which is to make our industry better, brighter and more accepted to the community.
What is wrong with trying to make it easier for low hour pilots to get a job. If they are wrongly being blamed for accidents, then we should fix it.
Otherwise the insurance companies impose a financial penalty on the employer, who in turn will not fork out the money and deny the first starter a job.
Are you afraid of growth? Are you afraid someone younger will steal your job? Will new talent show up your weaknesses shown in this thread.
Being dumb has its advantages, I suppose.
Just a final thought as I leave this thread, all the associations and their people trying to make us a better place to work all have other day jobs and they do this as volunteers.
If you feel so anti-progress why not join one of the groups and do your bit to promote your point of view, which is so clearly expressed here.
In fact what is you point of view, apart from shooting the messenger?
Wadda think guys? Show us the quality of your dribble.
Any thoughtys from others?
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Oh Dear Me.
There will always be the knockers, the unhelpful and the lowlife of our industry.
Stand up and be counted, you wimps.
This man is trying to move things!!...he does it his way and is in an elected position, what have you done? Not much I would expect, except snipe from your cave.
Grow up.
Stand up and be counted, you wimps.
This man is trying to move things!!...he does it his way and is in an elected position, what have you done? Not much I would expect, except snipe from your cave.
Grow up.
Thanks for Vice Like!I agree with MG and 500 , what a load of S
T!I agree with the point of insurance in regards to low time pilots.But rambling on for half the page gets a bit boring!
T!I agree with the point of insurance in regards to low time pilots.But rambling on for half the page gets a bit boring!
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Yeah But!!!!
Fantastic news Rob,
The industry is on the way up and everyone is feeling good. Now if operators could just fall into line with the rest of the world and start paying people what they deserve. I recently spoke to a young fella in Sydney who has around 2000 hours. Good attitude and very capable. He was earning $40,000 a year. No flight pay, no benefits. Now the same guy can go overseas and earn twice as much. Australia keeps losing alot of its talent overseas because the grass IS greener. Any thaughts on that Rob?
The industry is on the way up and everyone is feeling good. Now if operators could just fall into line with the rest of the world and start paying people what they deserve. I recently spoke to a young fella in Sydney who has around 2000 hours. Good attitude and very capable. He was earning $40,000 a year. No flight pay, no benefits. Now the same guy can go overseas and earn twice as much. Australia keeps losing alot of its talent overseas because the grass IS greener. Any thaughts on that Rob?
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Generally, an operator will pay the minimum necessary to get a pilot. If he can find one who will work for $2 a day, then that is what he will pay. If nobody answers his advert at $2, he will have to offer more until the phone rings.
If you are unhappy working for $40K, tell the boss and be prepared to go somewhere else.
Judging by the number of ads for LAMEs, you seem to be in high demand. If you are still unlicensed, do the study and you will reap the rewards. Where I am, the engineers are paid much better than the pilots, because the boss knows which category is harder to find.
And to all those sniping gecko-watchers who abuse Rob Rich for a bit of good news about the industry, you don't deserve to be a part of the industry. There was an operator in Sydney, recently departed, who spent a large part of his life trying to bring down the opposition instead of building the industry up. All he did was leave a trail of anger and hatred, with his continual sniping, complaints to CASA or anybody else nearby, and abuse of all and sundry.
Give the HAA and the industry a chance. You might feel bitter and twisted about something, well, go and join an association and try to change it. All that your sniping will achieve is to make the volunteers, who do a thankless job, wonder why they even bothered to try.
If you are unhappy working for $40K, tell the boss and be prepared to go somewhere else.
Judging by the number of ads for LAMEs, you seem to be in high demand. If you are still unlicensed, do the study and you will reap the rewards. Where I am, the engineers are paid much better than the pilots, because the boss knows which category is harder to find.
And to all those sniping gecko-watchers who abuse Rob Rich for a bit of good news about the industry, you don't deserve to be a part of the industry. There was an operator in Sydney, recently departed, who spent a large part of his life trying to bring down the opposition instead of building the industry up. All he did was leave a trail of anger and hatred, with his continual sniping, complaints to CASA or anybody else nearby, and abuse of all and sundry.
Give the HAA and the industry a chance. You might feel bitter and twisted about something, well, go and join an association and try to change it. All that your sniping will achieve is to make the volunteers, who do a thankless job, wonder why they even bothered to try.
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A bit harsh
Gee,
I tell you what - never let anyone post anything positive again else they be insulted and publicly bashed?!?!?!?!?!
This is after all a public forum, why not tell the world about Australia's growing industry and projections on the industry to bring in more students and help boost the economy, etc.
I would rather read about something interesting and positive instead of the usual drivel and b*tching that seems to be posted on this site (there have been some great items too).......
No one made you guys read the posting and it sounds as if you know Rob and who he is and perhaps that he can get a bit carried away at times - so you know what?!?! Don't read the postings and continue your narrow minded threads on this or that other cr*p.
I'm sure that I will be receiving my share of insults from this posting...."Go ahead, make my day" !!!!!
I tell you what - never let anyone post anything positive again else they be insulted and publicly bashed?!?!?!?!?!
This is after all a public forum, why not tell the world about Australia's growing industry and projections on the industry to bring in more students and help boost the economy, etc.
I would rather read about something interesting and positive instead of the usual drivel and b*tching that seems to be posted on this site (there have been some great items too).......
No one made you guys read the posting and it sounds as if you know Rob and who he is and perhaps that he can get a bit carried away at times - so you know what?!?! Don't read the postings and continue your narrow minded threads on this or that other cr*p.
I'm sure that I will be receiving my share of insults from this posting...."Go ahead, make my day" !!!!!
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I'm with DD - my impression is that engineers are in higher demand and get paid more straight out of apprenticeship than a pilot will get for many years after qualifying.
And I'm also in support of Rob - if you have something constructive to say, then say it. If you have data (not anecdotes) that contradicts Rob's statements, bring it on, I know Rob is man enough to have a reasonable discussion with a fair-minded person.
Be nice.
And I'm also in support of Rob - if you have something constructive to say, then say it. If you have data (not anecdotes) that contradicts Rob's statements, bring it on, I know Rob is man enough to have a reasonable discussion with a fair-minded person.
Be nice.